Outfitter Dilemma

[otterman]

Here's my dilemma. I am about to buy a SD Sidekick as a lighweight summer bag. I can buy it at my local outfitter for $105.00 with tax. I can buy it at Campsaver.com for $74.00 with shipping included. Do I spend the extra money at the outfitter and support him or do I save the money and go internet?

[kyhipo]

i like to know what i am buying firsthand as far as tents,bags,shoes the rest i can live with plus i hate the return hastle if it isnt what I wanted.ky

[hikerjohnd]

How good is your local outfitter? There was one here in Savannah that had the worst customer service. They simply hired students to work there (most of whom were artists not outdoors people) and during the 3 years they were open I never had a positive experience there. If your outfitter has friendly, knowlegable staff, then I say support them. If you go there to check out equipment and then buy online you are doing them a great disservice, and when you need them they probably will have gone out of business. Also, mention that you could buy it for less online, maybe they can come down on the price a bit (10% maybe).

[otterman]

It is a small, but very good outfitter. The people I talk to are hikers themselves and they handle quality products (although they looked at me strangely when I asked for Aqua Mira). I am leaning toward buying it there because they offer what no online outfitter can offer. The seeing and touching of the product. I ask myself, would I pay $30 to have their service available to me just down the street? I guess the answer is yes.

[DawnTreader]

buy the bag online......don't be a fool...
Go to your outfitter for other small things you need...

[mingo]

screw the outfitter. ask him why his prices are so high

[ANHINGA]

This is a legitimate debate with economic as well as ethical consquences. I agree with supporting the local economy even if it means a few dollars more if, and only if, the management of the local store is reasonably priced, and the staff knowledgeable, courteous, and willing to stand behind their products. If you walk into an outfitters, or a surf shop, or a bicycle shop and you feel as if you interrupted some exclusive club's meeting house, then walk out and buy online. However, if you always buy cheap from online or big box stores in other states, don't expect anything but the Wal-Mart equivalent of gear shopping to prevail. Seen any good local bookstores after Barnes and Noble rides to town?

[dreamhiker]

I am trying to make the same choice I will be buying a pack soon and have found one I want on line at rei-outlet but its a over stock from last year so Im not sure about the fit. Im thinking of going to a store to get fitted and then buying the one on line.
DreamHiker

[TN_Hiker]

Otterman,

Sounds like you have already made the decision. Buy from the outfitter, but let them know you are paying more to buy from them.....if they are half way decent they will try to lower the price or sweeten the deal in some other fashion.

[tlbj6142]

This hasn't been much of an issue for me. My local outfitter carries mostly high-end/high-dollar brands. Which are not all that much cheaper on-line (unless you find a close-out or 2nds somewhere). So, if they have something I want, I buy it from them.

However, most of the stuff I want is only available on-line, which sort of makes it easier to decide.

I believe they've made the right choice. A local outfitter can't sell Kelty (or SD) bags and survive, as there is too much competition for that brand. However, they can sell WM, Marmot, Mountain Hardware, Arc'Teryx, Patagonia, Osprey, Cloudveil, Royal Robbins, Ex Officio, etc. As all of those brands seem to provide some sort of price protection for their re-sellers.

They do, however, carry TNF, but the idiots that buy that stuff don't really care about price. They just want the brand name.

[Just Jeff]

ANHINGA is right on - support the local guy if you can or we'll be stuck with Walmarts for everything.

I had a local outfitter who would look things up on eBay while I was standing there, figure the price with shipping, and let me know if he could match it. I'd be willing to pay a few dollars over the internet price so I could have a relationship with a local vendor. If he couldn't come close enough, I'd buy online - no hard feelings from either of us b/c he knew I'd be back. His customer service was worth it.

[CaptChaos]

Hello Everyone:

Interesting post and it can cut both ways.

I ran into this when I was younger, in my teens, when I was into building RC Aircraft. I mowed yards and the money that I collected was well earned.

When I would go to the local hobby store and scope out a box kit of a plane I would see that the local hobby store was charging more than what I could order by mail ( I'm dating myself here, the Internet was not here yet).

It was a hard thing to do when ordering by mail and paying shipping was still cheaper than buying at my local hobby store and paying state tax on top of the purchase.

One day I made the mistake of asking the hobby shop dealer to meet the price of the hobby retailer. He went nuts on me and had to point out that I was also paying for his experience and skills in helping me with my questions about building planes and installing radios.

I pointed out that the plane that I wanted to buy was lets say $70.00 and that was cost of plane and shipping. I offered to buy the plane from my local hobby shop if he would sell it to me for $70.00 and charge me the 6% sales tax. He told me to go screw myself and almost kicked me out of the store.

I stood my ground and told him that I had not asked for his help in installing or building anything for the last three years and I did not see why I should be paying for something that I was not using. We never came to terms. The Internet put him under.

I want to support my local camping store here in town but his prices are set for the super rich in the area and he really does not care about my needs since I cannot afford his trips that he puts together. All of my gear I looked at this store first then went online and bought cheaper and paid no taxes on. Sad but true.

I know from personal experience this Spring when I tried to establish my own Internet based business called NPO, USA that I was up against something that I could not control. The distributors want a building to see their products displayed in. I know that the building would add extra expenses that I don't need right now during my startup. The distributors did not want to sign me up for any products because of the local dealer in town. I had no choice but to tank my project and look for something else to break into. I know for a fact that if I try to establish a building and sell camping supplies that the Internet retailers will bury me so I have to deal with them on their own terms and that is via the Internet if I am to have success and grow.

Charity is a good thing but supporting a local business that is over charging when it can be purchased on-line cheaper makes no sense to me. I would suggest that you point out the products you want to buy, show him the price you can pay plus shipping and ask him to meet that final price if he wants your business. Again, if you are new to this and going to ask a lot of questions then I would not do this but if you know what you are doing and have backpacking experience then I would make the offer in good faith and if he wont meet it then order on-line and be done with it.

More than my 2 cents worth.

Capt. Chaos

[Ridge]

I like buying stuff from REI (REI.COM), in person or mail. It's a CO-OP, great gear, you get a little back at year end, and great service.

[kevin]

A few good posts on both sides of the argument and (obviously) it comes down to an individual choice. Where I live, it is a 2 hour drive to the nearest outfitter that carries backpacking gear. Most outdoor stores here are geared toward car camping, hunting or fishing. That means if I want to physically see or touch a pack, tent or any other gear, I have about a 4 hour round-trip and it also means most things I buy are purchased online, so I don't have to worry about the decision. However, I think it is important to look at why the B&M prices tend to be higher.

An online retailer sells globally and has likely has substantially less overhead (proportionate to sales). The B&M likely has a larger staff, rent, etc (again, relative to revenues). In order to make the same NET profit, they typically need a higher GROSS profit (in other words need to sell at a little higher price). While the B&M outfitter prices are likely a little higher, I really doubt most (there are some exceptions I'm sure) B&M outfitters are getting rich (otherwise we'd see more of them popping up all over). The internet model is more efficient and that is why we typically see lower prices online.

Is it your responsibility to support the inefficient B&M model? Clearly not. However, as a consumer you need to consider the big picture. Do you value having a B&M outfitter nearby? If yes, then there is some additional value beyond the item that you purchase and you are going to have to pay for it. If everyone starts ordering all their gear online, the B&M store will close and you'll have to order everything online. If that is not an issue for you, then definitely, buy online.

This next paragraph is slightly off-topic and not directed to the original poster, but I think society often expects irrational behavior from businesses. If consumers focus on cost over service and other issues, then businesses will have to focus on minimizing their cost. Let's say your business offers good service, good benefits to your employees, a pleasant consumer experience. I offer no benefits to my employees (you get the better employees), which likely means poorer service and a less pleasant consumer experience, but cheaper prices. If consumers go to your store to look around, ask questions and benefit from your better employees, then run into my store to buy their product, you will either have to go out of business or reduce your costs (likely by cutting back on your employee benefits). Then we (as a society) will get mad at businesses for treating their employees unfairly while it was our behavior (as consumers) that lead to that behavior.

To wrap back up to the original post, evaluate the value of the entire process. If you want the lowest price, there is nothing wrong or unethical with that (most of us want low prices). However, if you focus only on the lowest price, then so will retailers. On the other hand, I think most of us have a limit to how much we are able/willing to pay for the extras (the chance to try on a few different packs, ask questions, etc.) so the retailer has to also stay competitive to help their own survival.

[Hana_Hanger]

If you buy from your local outfitter...mention how you can buy the same exact products online cheaper...and you may find they will give you a discount simply because you chose to buy from them and support their store.
I know I did when I had a bead and gift shop here on island...I always gave major discounts to the locals supporting my shop

[Ridge]

Local Outfitters make a large amount from new hikers. They also make sales of gear that sometimes may not be available to the REI's, mainly because the quality gear maker can't supply a large retailer like REI or Campmor. It's the el-cheepo's (like me), that know the gear, don't need personal attention or fitting, that seek the cheapest, used or ebay type pricing. This hurts the local outfitter, and for that I'm sorry. But hey, its not as bad as a guy retiring and moving to Roanoke, putting up an All-you-can-eat (AYCE) buffet in January between the trail and town without being aware that the AT is just a few miles west and come Spring he'll be cleaned out, every day and every time the buffet is open. Man, I love AYCE's.

[Roland]

Here's my dilemma. I am about to buy a SD Sidekick as a lighweight summer bag. I can buy it at my local outfitter for $105.00 with tax. I can buy it at Campsaver.com for $74.00 with shipping included. Do I spend the extra money at the outfitter and support him or do I save the money and go internet?

You'll be paying 41% more at your local outfitters.

MSRP: $89.95
Ohio Sales Tax: 5.5%

$89.95 + 5.5% tax = $94.90

Note that your outfitter is charging $10 more than MSRP.

I support my local outfitter too, but not if I'm getting dicked.

[Ridge]

REI is the Wal-Mart of outfitters.

I wish Wal-Mart did sell the same stuff REI did. Wouldn't have to go all the way to Atlanta to purchase in person. Cheaper prices on the same stuff would also be good.

[Just Jeff]

REI sells stuff for a good price online, but you can still exchange it in the brick and mortar stores if you have a problem. That, along with the co-op, member's sales, dividends, and generally good customer service (in my experience, at least), makes it a good deal.

It's still a big box store, though - it can put the small outfitters out of business, it doesn't carry cottage gear, etc. But as far as I know it's no Walmart - employment ethics, predatory business strategy, etc - that's like comparing Washington and Clinton b/c they were both Presidents. But I haven't researched it so I could be wrong.

[Ridge]

What can I say "Just Jeff" you're "Just Right". I've been a REI Co-Op member since 1990, when they opened their first store in Atlanta. No one has better Customer Svc. You get a 10% dividend on non sale/special item purchases at years end. The only other mail order I've dealt with Campmor, I like them too. I only thing I like about WallyWorld is they are close and open 24hrs.