Rutland Hostel

[ridgewalker777]

Yes, hospitable, with really good natural beverages and food. It would, however, be great if a hiker or two could organize such a place without the commune philosophy of voluntary poverty, which requires prospective members to sell all wealth and possessions and distribute to the TT or the poor. These and other communal groups have received substantial wealth from entering members, leaving them with little should a change in attitude, family or other needs arise later--The Bruderhoff, for example.

[James Case]

I learned to share in preschool. I just do it in the community I live in because I want to. No one forces me to share with my friends. Love is what forces me to. No one should ever consider trying to do what we do because they think they have to. It is only a matter of doing what we have the desire in our hearts to do. Love is the motivating force, not good principles.

[Yahtzee]

There was a twelve tribes thruhiker in '01. Very nice kid. Huge appetite. Taught him to swing a bat. He had never swung a baseball bat before, i was amazed. When I told him over a cup of coffee that he was in a cult, he didn't seem to mind. He was one serene cat. I believe the term "drank the Kool-aid" applied to him. Along with "bad-ass hiker" and "non-stop buffet destroying monster".

I agree with Rainman. A cult is a cult is a cult.

[Jack Tarlin]

Yahtzee---

Not to open a can of worms or anything, cuz to be frank, I'm not entirely sure what I think about the 12 Tribes....but around 2000 years ago, the power that-be in Roman-occupied Palestine viewed early Christianity as a dangerous cult, and something to be avoided, feared, and suppressed.

Something to think about maybe.

[James Case]

I think the person Yahtzee was referring to was probably not from our communities. Maybe some other group of people.

As far as the thing Jack said, it is definitely something to consider. I suggest reading the words of a man named Gamaliel in the Bible. Acts 5:34-39

[Heater]

Yahtzee---

Not to open a can of worms or anything, cuz to be frank, I'm not entirely sure what I think about the 12 Tribes....but around 2000 years ago, the power that-be in Roman-occupied Palestine viewed early Christianity as a dangerous cult, and something to be avoided, feared, and suppressed.

Something to think about maybe.

If you had a half million bucks of assets... and were asked to "donate it all" would you still be not so sure?



Times change and JC aint living at 12 tribes as far as I know...

[Jack Tarlin]

Austexs--

Lifting a chosen serene, ascetic lifestyle goes back thousands of years in Christian traditon.

In later years thousands of people in the Franciscan and Dominican monastic orders adopted this lifestyle. And they did a great deal of good in the process.

Choosing to live like this is ultimately a voluntary decision.

Would I choose to live like this....or donate all my worldly assets to a religious group?

Well, not this week, but just because I wouldn't doesn't mean I'm qualified to judge anyone who feels differently.

[Wolf - 23000]

Jack and others,

This is far from a Christian group. A Christian group believes in serving GOD, the twelve tribes believes in serving their tribe. If you are not a member of the tribe, they believe your going to HELL.

The only reason why they have the hostel is to recruit new members. Even if a handful of thru-hikers join their cause, give up everything to the tribe … all their positions, their real friends, maybe even their family and agreed to work for free for the tribe’s cause. It more then pays for itself in their eyes. I suggest all stay as far away from the place as possible.

Wolf

[Lone Wolf]

cults and organized churches suck.

[James Case]

I think organized religion is awful, too, just like you said. I love the twelve tribes, though. Been here over a decade. It's not like you think. Really... We gain a lot more debt through new members joining us than we gain assets. We do it to help people.

[Jack Tarlin]

If the new members are working, and help support themselves and the community they've just joined, then how does this add debt?

I'm not being argumentative, James, I'm just curious.

And what is "organized" religion by the way?

Isn't your community "organized" in various ways, i.e doesn't it have leaders, traditions, rituals, writings, commandments, codes of conduct, regulations?

Please tell us what you mean by "organized".

[Wolf - 23000]

I think organized religion is awful, too, just like you said. I love the twelve tribes, though. Been here over a decade. It's not like you think. Really... We gain a lot more debt through new members joining us than we gain assets. We do it to help people.

James,

I’m sure you do love the twelve tribes, but it also the only life you real know. All your friends, family, etc are also members I’m sure. The twelve tribes has some very good true people but it also have a very dark side too that destroys any beauty it could every offer... I know, I spent several days with the twelve tribes in NY.

New members have to give up a lot more then what you think. Image the tribe telling you to break you are tied with any one of your friends, family, people that care about you, give up all your positions - Even a faithful dog. Could you do it? Don’t say it would never happen, but it has been done before and will happen again.

To answer Jack question, “If the new members are working, and help support themselves and the community they've just joined, then how does this add debt?” Some members do join with significant amount of debt (over spent credit cards, bad credit, etc.) The tribe absorbs this debt too as it was explain to me. But even a new member with $10,000 worth of bad debt, is going to more then make up the different after the turn over all their assets and working for free. In a matter of months the tribe has more than made up the different if you look at how much it would cost them if they had to pay someone for working. Labor is cheap when you don’t have to pay someone.

Wolf

[Yahtzee]

"I think the person Yahtzee was referring to was probably not from our communities. Maybe some other group of people." Nope. This kid was in the twelve tribes. You don't forget a religion named twelve tribes.


Jack, I think all "ways" are cults. And since this is just another bible-based cult like the ones I have already dismissed, it made dismissing this as a cult that much easier.

Would I stay there? Sure, why not. But I'd mostly likely be camped across the street from the Inn at the Long Trail or sleeping in a room there.

[DavidNH]

Somehow I destinctly remember this exact thread being hashed out here on white blaze months back..maybe a year back. Why do we have to to it all over again?

I sorta remembered they showed up at the last gathering in Hanover. Seemed really nice.. this one lady Patience sticks in my mind.

Anyway.. with all the talk of them being cultish I think there is reason to pause and think.

personally I love the Inn at the Long Trail.. there food can't be beat and its pleasant ant comfy. It is money yes..but ok..I am willing to shell it out at that point!! btw.. one of finest hot chocolates on the AT!

David

[James Case]

This is great. I love these types of questions. Yes, it does add debt when people move in with debt. They had debt and now we all have it shared between us. Yes, they sometimes to turn into working members that help bring the community income, but that income is also used to pay the bills for the food they eat and the utilities they consume, etc. If you have ever spent time with us, you might have noticed we are barely scraping by in most of our locations. Is this because we send a bunch of money to some fund the leader or leaders only have access to? No, we actually don't. We are usually in this state because we pull lots of the people out of money-making positions and have them teach children in our home-school-type classrooms and have them do a bunch of other non-income-earning stuff like subsistence farming and remodeling our older houses, etc. I'm saying this as the one in charge of the money, too, not just as someone in the dark about it.
And as far as the thing about me not knowing any other life. You got me all wrong. I have no family here except the woman I married here and the boy we are raising. I didn't grow up here. I went to college and opted out of the career world I was heading for to live by the desires in my heart to love others and have the special togetherness we share. You should see it. We have a much better life than you are thinking. We have a farm here in Asheville, North Carolina where I live now that is developing very well. Animals, a large garden. We even make bio-diesel for our own use. Come check it out. www.gladheartfarms.com - We don't bite... As for those that dismiss what we're doing as a cult. Well, that's fine. We're not looking to prove anything to anyone. We make no apology about loving God. If you have reasons you think we're something scary, well, no one's forcing you to visit or join us. Please keep your comments at least somewhat dignified and appropriate, though. It starts to get a bit depressing when people are full of bitterness and anger over something they really know nothing about. We are human beings, after all, not cult-machines that don't have feelings and hearts.

I look forward to any other questions you may have... keep them coming.
James

[ridgewalker777]

This hostel, the quality of hospitality and example of fellowship sets a good example for hikers. There is some Scripture about provoking others to do good or godliness--my hope is that there be openness by both hikers and the Twelve Tribes so that both benefit. I would gladly work at one of their farms, etc. to help out learn sociability and acceptance, etc. if there were no expectations that by doing so I were joining. Rutland is not known as the most virtuous city. Perhaps they are setting a really good example to their neighbors and others will imitate their good behaviour

[greenmtnboy]

It would be good to debate Bible teachings with their own. I was challenged by them on Luke 14--"no man can be my disciple unless he forsakes all that he has", unless you hate father and mother you cannot, etc. If you read the chapter you will see it is not a mandate, but rather a challenge to put Christ first. What about Titus and 1Timothy? It says an overseer must rule his own house well in order to be entrusted with church rule...How, pray tell, is this possible if he has no possessions or freedom of autonomy? Virtue untested is not virtue. How can others be provoked to do good if there is the belief that you must join up because their example cannot be immitated. The Pope said as much the other day that their is no other way than the RC church...

[Jack Tarlin]

Speaking of useful quotes from the Good Book, it wouldn't hurt to have a look at Matthew 7:15, either.

[Dr O]

Wolf, thanks for telling us the source of your bitterness.

Essentially, your friend fell in love with the One we fell in love with...and with the life we share with one another...and left you behind.

That's a hard thing to swallow, for sure. But why don't you just accept it for what it is? She found a life with us that she loves more than the life she had with you.

If she had found such a life she loved more, with another man rather than with a group of people...would you be on such a crusade against him?

I don't know who this woman is, who used to be with you, and is now here with us....but she is here because she has chosen to be here. And to be in our life is a very good thing...for me, it has been like coming into light after living in the darkness. I am happy for your friend.

It would be nice if you could see the value in the choice she has made; and that is what it comes down to, Wolf...she made a choice, and continues to make that choice daily to be with us. You should respect that, if you truly respect her.

Sincerely,
David

There is no respect for groups who alienate people from their friends and/or family. I don't care what whoever's god told them.

[James Case]

Good word, Jack. My thoughts exactly. I think we're more tested in these things greenmtnboy mentions than anyone. The only difference is that in the community setting, one can actually do the things taught in the gospels. It's nice to be able to do them. Also, the letters were written to communities, not churches as we know them.
James