Your point?So who thinks their God?
Amigi:
The answer to your question is LOTS of thru-hikers get the feeling that they're some kind of Hot S*** because they're thru-hiking, and this attitude is expressed in all sorts of ways: They're rude to section hikers or weekenders; they demand special privileges, rights, or discounts because they're thru-hikers; they're rude or demanding in stores, especially Outfitters; they make unreasonable demands on gear manufacturers and "threaten" to blacken their names if they don't get their stuff fixed or replaced on demand; they're rude with people in towns, such as in Post Offices, stores, and Libraries; they feel that fees and charges that apply to the general public somehow don't apply to them; they behave any way they wish in restaurants, motels, and other facilities.
In short, they feel somehow entitled only because they are thru-hikers, and this is wrong.
And there's no A.T. oligarchy. All I said was if I encountered these folks on the Trail while I was out doing nicestuff for hikers, I'd give them a pass. This is an "oligarchy" at work?
Nope. I'm just not going to do any favors for a*******, OK? You can if you wish, but not me.
And lastly, if you're gonna quote someone's words or re-print their post here, it's not cool to change the type-face or font of their post, in order to emphasize a sentence or brief point. In short, it's dishonest, and makes it look like the "Stop feeling entitled!" comment of the post was my main point.
It wasn't.
My main point was there's a right way and a wrong way for hikers to act in public, and that their behavior can affect how other hikers are treated in Trail towns, businesses, facilities. And that nobody has a right to behave in a way that will f*** things up for other hikers.
As someone who'll be hiking next year, one would think you'd appreciate that this is an issue that concerns folks.
Sorry you think it's "patronizing" but I assure you, when you get to a place someday and they tell you the motel's filled, or you can't tent out back anymore, or it takes twenty minutes before anyone hands you a menu, or someone tells you they'd just as soon not have to deal with hikers, well I assure you that you won't think that criticizing this sort of behavior is "patronizing."
Instead, you'll probably wanna wring the necks of the inconsiderate bastards whose lousy behavior came back to impact YOUR trip.
And in feeling that way, you'd be right.
Well, since the guy actually was old enough...and I'm assuming it was just barely and this guy wasn't 40 or something, the waitress wasn't obligated to check his ID at all. That being said, if any officials tried to charge her, or the establishment with any wrongdoing, the fact that none actually occurred would come out in court, right? Or am I misunderstanding the law? I realize old ID's are a problem in college towns, and if she wasn't convinced she was dealing with the person on the ID (not borne out by the rest of her actions...)
she had every right to kick the guy out, but if she knew he was of age (and she obviously did...), and no police officer could prove otherwise, than her job and the establishment's money weren't actually at risk, and the hiker in question probably knew that.
Making a scene and flipping people off in public is never called for, of course. Hikers have a special responsibility in this regard for the reasons Jack stated. And that is where the offense lies IMO.
But I tend to think the hiker in question might have had some cause to be miffed. I'd want to witness the whole group's interaction with the waitress before I determined what kind of tip she deserved. Correct me if I'm wrong, I hate when hikers act like a-holes in town, but I also hate when some are held to higher standards than others.
sounds to me like those jerks would've done that stuff whether they were thru-hikin' or not. there's all kinds of inconsiderates out there. i agree with sly that they should've got the boot right off, bad choice by the managment and or waitress. even a worse move by the jerks who were pullin' that crap. with some of the words that are expressed here about thru-hikers on occasion you'd think that they're all a bunch of jerks. don't let a couple ruin it for the rest. being a little more careful when choosing words to describe thru-hikers would be nice. first and foremost these jerks are people and although they're thru-hikin' i think that people need to be careful when clumping jerks and thru-hikers together in an instance like this. i mean we now know they pulled a bad move,let's not drag thru-hikers through the mud just because thats what those idjits were doing when they decided to act like jerks!
A few years ago Quincy's had a problem so they were checking everyone and tagging everyone who came in. I hadn't been carded in almost 40 years and thought it was funny but the person most pleased was Paw-Paw (many years my elder) who proudly displayed his wrist band they used for tagging, for all to see!
Fitz, I was going to ask Jack how old the dude was, but it doesn't make any difference legally. Obviously, if he got carded he wasn't 40 something and needed to be carded! Despite the fact the invalid ID said he was old enough, you need a valid ID to legally do anything that calls for one!
Trust me bfitz, I'm all for ignoring silly and unenforceable laws. But only when doing so has zero chance of harming simple folk trying to do their job.Originally Posted by bfitz
My read is that it's an ethical/moral breach over and above the legal question.
Skids
Insanity: Asking about inseams over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein, (attributed)
Exactly, the hiker was trusted and expected to do the right thing, which wasn't drink. Fool me once shame on me.... fool me twice you're outta here!My read is that it's an ethical/moral breach over and above the legal question.
Who hasn't had to swallow their pride and do something they thought was silly or not do something for some silly rule?
As we say in the hood: "Don't hate the playa for being a playa, hate the game the playa plays". Translation: It isn't the waitress or the restaurant's fault the system is set up that way, so don't take it out on them.
But from Jack's report it sounds like some of the group already understands that. Maybe one of the more adult acting members of the group will log into WhiteBlaze, read this, realize it was a group they were in, and then relate it to the group and exert some peer pressure on the others to grow the **** up. Pardon my bluntness.
SGT Rock
http://hikinghq.net
My 2008 Trail Journal of the BMT/AT
BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
-----------------------------------------
NO SNIVELING
I second that. A turd is a turd whether it's on the trail or not.
I must be missing something here.....what is the big secret about the trail name of this individual?
So many are quick to say who is a theif, use the name of a certain hiker that publishes a trail guide, and state name after name about all sorts of things.....I thought the trail community was tight and small and news travelled fast? I guess there is something I have missed here.
Is there a fear that somebody might PM this person if they are on this board? or that somebody might actually have something to say to them on trail about their past behavior?
ad astra per aspera
Let me see if I have read this correctly. You think this person should be outed for their past behavior? If they are WB members, should we connect their login names with their trail names?
"Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
Call for his whisky
He can call for his tea
Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
Robert Hunter & Ron McKernan
Whiteblaze.net User Agreement.
[quote=SGT Rock]As we say in the hood: "Don't hate the playa for being a playa, hate the game the playa plays." quote]
Wow, never thought Rock would say something like that.
Makes me laugh.
In some states, the liquor control agency expects anyone who looks under a certain age--say 27 or 30--to be carded. It's a subjective thing, but if you have a thriving business based on maintaining your liquor license, you'd be smart to do what's expected.
Two years ago--and I was then and am now WAY over 21--I got carded at a club. At first I thought the doorman was blind. Then I took it as a compliment. Then I saw an even older guy a few spaces behind me get carded. What a letdown! Everyone was getting carded!A few years ago Quincy's had a problem so they were checking everyone and tagging everyone who came in. I hadn't been carded in almost 40 years and thought it was funny but the person most pleased was Paw-Paw (many years my elder) who proudly displayed his wrist band they used for tagging, for all to see!
It was later explained to me by a bartender there that in addition to wanting to make sure everyone drinking was of legal age, they were carding every single person to avoid being accused of discrimination against minorities. After it was explained like that, it seemed fair and prudent to me and might have had the added benefit of protecting folks from actual discrimination. But he could have lied, couldn't he, and said I got carded because I looked, uh, 30ish? No, didn't think so...
Smile: There's no big secret about names here. I'm just not interested in using them here.....either the waitress' name, the names of anyone present, even the chief jerk in question. And for another thing, I'm not 100% sure of what his Trail Name really is. I'll certainly recognize the guy if I see him again, but I simply don't wanna get into the name thing here. It was the behavior that I was trying to do something about by starting this thread.....I have no plans to ruin the rest of anyone's trip, and nor should anyone else.
Bfitz: You are indeed mis-understanding the law; I thought I made it clear in my original post. In New Hampshire, a piece of identification becomes legally invalid when it has expired. Even if it was a perfectly legitimate piece of identification at the time it was issued, and even if the holder is above 21, in the eyes of the law, this does not matter. A licensed establishment is required to verify that everyone being served alcohol is 21 and can prove it, by showing specific sorts of VALID identification. Any young person has to verify their identity and age, so yeah, Bfitz, the restaurant staff was indeed obligated to card the guy. If a place is caught serving someone who is under age, over-served to the point of intoxication, using an altered identification, improperly using someone else's identification, or using identification that is invalid for any reason, the establishment can be cited and fined. So can the individual server (i.e. waitress or bartender). The fact that this kid was 21 and had a license is totally irrelevant. His identification was legally invalid in New Hampshire; he was politely informed of this; he continued to drink anyway.
And Skyline made a valid point. Most place have uniform policies in this regard precisely so they can't be accused of treating anyone unfairly. In short, young people WILL be carded, and the I.D. they present must not only be genuine, it must be legally valid.
Neither the Hanover restaurant in question nor any of its staff did anything wrong here.
I think you have to be kinda dense not to be carrying a valid ID on an extended trip. I can think of lots of times when you may need one and virtually no one will accept an invalid one.
Besides having a cocktail, try renting a car or cash a check/MO without a valid ID.
Since the hiker in question, showed his azz he deserves no sympathy.
Any person or group treated that way can have long term affect on those that follow. sadly usually the damage is done by those who "Will never be this way again." So don't have to suffer the consequences of their actions.
Sometimes though, revenge is sweet. Reverse situation:
My friends & I frequented a local steak house (A chain / franchise) for years during our Ren Fest season every Sunday. These 8 or 9 Sundays made this steak house the #1 of this franchise for the state for 4 years in a row, we gave them so much business (almost guaranteed 150 to 200 person per Sunday). Claude, the manager treated us GREAT, & we respected him, even helping his staff clean up afterwards. Claude got fired for "taking out the garbage" (True, the owner fired him for that!)
This was done "Off season" so we didn't find out about it till the following year, then not till almost end of season. BUT, we knew something was wrong; Claude was gone, the food went from good to barely tolerable (Claude had taken extra measures with the canned / pre packaged stuff. Butter in the canned corn & etc.) Surely service, WRONG STEAK ORDERS (this never happened with Claude) The final straw was the owner came up & said " you rennies will no longer get any steak over 4 OZ, I'm tired of you sending them back" We told him "get the order right & we won't send them back!". That was the last time our group went to this steak house, they struggled thru the next year, but closed 1/2 way thru our season. It's now a Mexican place, we still won't patronize it just in case of same owners. BW3 now welcomes us with open arms, sets aside a private room for us (we are loud, 3 sober "rennies" can drown out any 10 drunk hikers, no effort) & treat us like Claude did: with open arms & respect. We treat them well & tip generously, and at least try to keep the noise to a minimum.
Please, don't let "Our" trail services be closed to us because of your bad behavior. Places who put up with "special people" are rare, we need every one of them. Be Claude, not his replacement. Or your "steak house" may close forever. If a sign goes up "No hikers" it will affect hikers for years. A Sad day indeed.
We miss you Claude.
Doctari.
Curse you Perry the Platypus!
So, you don't really know the guy's name, but you'd recognize him? All this from a seconghand account? Something is beginning to smell here!
I'm with Jack on this one. The point was well stated and clear. The offenders name is irrelevant. No reason for him to fabricate a story.
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