Rancor here on Whiteblaze

[MOWGLI]

I've been gone for 4 days - off helping to build the Mountains to Sea Trail in Western Carolina. As a long time contributor here at WB - I have some perspective on the way that this discussion board waxes & wanes. We are approaching a period where the 2007 hopeful hikers will flock here in droves - filled with questions, anxiety and anticipation.

That brings me to my point. It seems as if the level of rancor displayed here on Whiteblaze has recently been ratcheted up a few notches. What is disturbing, is that it is mostly the folks who have already hiked the trail. Much of it is in the political forums - and it has taken a nasty turn here & there.

I'd like to suggest that we take a "time out" and try to make this discussion board resemble the trail a bit better. As anyone who has hiked the trail can attest - there is the "real" Appalachian Trail and the "cyber" Appalachian Trail - and the two often do not resemble one another.

Be kind to one another - and set an example for the newbie. Now... go play nice.

[TOW]

I feel spanked.......................

[Amigi'sLastStand]

A while ago I said the exact same thing in a thread entitled "Civility" and was attacked from all sides for doing so.
I no longer subscribe to the political and non-AT threads at all. I lost my cool once on one thread and regret that, but there are longtime contributors and cant-ever-be-wrong-my-way-is-the-only-way thruhikers who seem to thrive on being asinine and as disagreeable as possilbe.

I support your effort Mowgli, for the good it'll do ya.
Chuck

[wilconow]

I like to click on 'new posts' from the home page to get a nice overview of all the theads. lately, it seems like there's a plethora of political threads. personally, if i wanted to participate or observe in political threads, i wouldn't go to an AT forum. i dont really see the need for the political section. i realize that some people will always want to argue about that stuff, but I don't see why it would be encouraged anywhere on this site.


edit -

Maybe the Non-AT forum could use a big sticky. This is the Non-AT forum, it has the Politics Forum in it. If you subscribed to it, you will see Political Discussions. These threads will appear when you look for new posts.

Thanks for posting this. I forgotten that I subscribed to this, so I unsubbed. *poof* it's gone.

[Creek Dancer]

What bothers me is that when a new person comes on board and asks a question, they are sometimes told to search the forum for their answers. Sure, they can find their answers that way, but posting a question here might a first attempt for a new person to get connected to the other users. Not answering their questions is kind of a turn off. Just my two cents.

Overall, I really like WB and I think all of you are great. I look forward to maybe hiking with you some day.

[hopefulhiker]

MOWGLI16, I am interested in the Mountain to the Sea trail, hiking it, and volunteering on it.. I know this is an AT forum but could you post some information about it..
Also I confess I am one of the posters to the political site and I realize that it can get a little routy in there... But when you think about it this forum is valuable because people of diverse views can express an opinion. It is a true meeting place.. Also I wasn't always this political.. I feel like it is my patriotic duty to speak out.. Plus I contribute advice on the other forums too.. Please dont take the forum away!

[Cuffs]

Im with you all! I do the 'new post" thing too, and totally avoid all that political stuff. This IS a hiking forum after all, and thats why I joined...

Now, I do think some type of "political" forum should remain, but it shoud be for placing trail issues that come up at local, state and federal levels. (ie: a city voting to allow 500 homes to be built along a corridor...) Anything that calls for action from those who want to help and protect our precious outdoors, needs a place to be posted so that others can be aware.

[Alligator]

A while ago I said the exact same thing in a thread entitled "Civility" and was attacked from all sides for doing so.
I no longer subscribe to the political and non-AT threads at all. I lost my cool once on one thread and regret that, but there are longtime contributors and cant-ever-be-wrong-my-way-is-the-only-way thruhikers who seem to thrive on being asinine and as disagreeable as possilbe.

I support your effort Mowgli, for the good it'll do ya.
Chuck

Hey Amigi, can I get a $20 DYI pepsi can stove ?

Wilconow, people often mention that they don't like the political threads. You can unsubscribe from those, it's the Non-AT Forum. New members actually have to sign up for those forums.

I was gone the whole weekend too .

[Amigi'sLastStand]

What bothers me is that when a new person comes on board and asks a question, they are sometimes told to search the forum for their answers. Sure, they can find their answers that way, but posting a question here might a first attempt for a new person to get connected to the other users. Not answering their questions is kind of a turn off. Just my two cents.

Overall, I really like WB and I think all of you are great. I look forward to maybe hiking with you some day.

Guilty.
The reason people will say to search, is that the topic has probably been hashed out ad nauseum three times before.

[MOWGLI]

MOWGLI16, I am interested in the Mountain to the Sea trail, hiking it, and volunteering on it.. I know this is an AT forum but could you post some information about it..

Hopefulhiker, check for a PM regarding the Mountains to Sea Trail.

Please dont take the (political) forum away!

I certainly wasn't suggesting that. Although thankfuly - from my experiences - there is less political talk on the trail than there is on WB.

[Footslogger]

Good topic. There are definite "cycles" regarding the types of posts here at WB, having a lot to do with the timing in terms of the hiking season.

Towards the end of each year and through Jan/Feb the majority of posts are about planning and executing a hike. As hikers depart there are some "where are they" type posts but in general the posts seem to digress somewhat.

'Slogger

[Creek Dancer]

Guilty.
The reason people will say to search, is that the topic has probably been hashed out ad nauseum three times before.

I understand the reason to tell them to search. My point is that it's not very welcoming to a new person.

[Footslogger]

I understand the reason to tell them to search. My point is that it's not very welcoming to a new person.

=======================================

Probably so ...and maybe it's the way in which we all suggest to them that they employ the search first. When a new member/guest hits WB for the first time I'd guess that their initial inclination is not to spend a lot of time exploring the site. They browse the current posts, survey the list of threads, scan some pics and then ask their questions.

'Slogger

[MOWGLI]

I understand the reason to tell them to search. My point is that it's not very welcoming to a new person.

When the newcomer asks a question here - they are often looking for a little personal interaction - in addition to their answer. After all, this is supposed to be a "community."

I imagine there are lots of lurkers who are content to search the archives. It doesn't hurt however to answer a question that's been asked 10 times. Unless of course it relates to guns, dogs, or cell phones.

[Footslogger]

Unless of course it relates to guns, dogs, or cell phones.

=====================================

For short and more colorful discussion of those topics they might be better referred to Trailplace.com

'Slogger

[Alligator]

I understand the reason to tell them to search. My point is that it's not very welcoming to a new person.

Sometimes I tell people to search, usually because the first time or two that a specific question comes up, the most information and discussion occurs. So telling someone to search it is IMO the best advice, particularly when I know that the thread was well covered. Sometimes the questions asked are so specific that if a newbie wants information, they would have to wait a long time to get an answer. The information could however, be present elsewhere.

A good example of the thinking vs. feeling function under Meyers Briggs.
Alligator-They asked the question because they wanted information.
Mowgli-They asked the question in order to interact with the community.

[SGT Rock]

Just a couple of thoughts from someone that only gets here occasionally now because Baghdad power system is having issues.

From scanning the majority of content that is available to the average user (not one that has joined the non-AT forum) most of the content is on the money. The only issue I see there is when some people take up old battles on those other threads, not wanting to name any names directly, but a couple of multiple time thru-hikers and add to that a couple of old time posters who regularly argue with one of those multi-trip thru-hikers. I wish those people would stop it because no one else even knows what they are arguing about anymore.

The site does have a place to post about political topics involving the trail: Trail Issues, Concerns, and History. So I don't think the non-AT political section needs to change to that, it is already covered.

On to the off-topic forum where most of the rancor happens. If old-timers remember we once had that sort of discussion in most all sections of the board. Discussions of filters could somehow become a discussion of left vs right politics. Discussions of dogs on the trail could become bitter fights with death threats. People that had no other outlet for this sort of post would put topics on the general forum about upcoming elections and such. Admins spent all their time trying to figure out how to clean up these threads when they went way way off and the big concern of all members was what this sort of bickering would look like to the average new hiker that came here to find out about filters, not what Rocks 'N Roots thought of Baltimore Jack's parentage.

The solution was to give people a forum where the content would not make search engines and would not show up to the average user unless they chose to go there. The off topics forum was that place. Later even "worse" stuff was put in the thick-skinned forum because even some people were uncomfortable with what was going on in AT discussions that were on sensitive subjects.

But back to the AT political forum where I see most of the action - it is the same 20 or so posters there, so that is who needs to think about what they sound like. I could be considered one of those. Most of the time these days though I limit my involvement in that forum because I know my emotions are too high for discussing something with someone that has no clue what they are saying is going to spark me.

And finally, as to rancor. All I can say is if you talk to people like you would like them to talk to you (even if they don't) you should be good 99% of the time.

[STEVEM]

I'm relatively new to WB. I remember a thread about a month ago where a person was asking how to be a Trail Angel. I recall that this thread was started by a new member (her first post I believe).

Result: She was absolutely POUNDED by all the experts here. Had I gotten the same response she did I would have just gone away, (as she likely did).

Amigi, as I recall, congratulated everyone for chasing away this new member.

Before I submit a post, I read it carefully and consider how I would feel if I had asked the question. Just a few words can make a big difference yet say the same thing.

[jmaclennan]

a few thoughts: when a newbie asks a question, i bet that they've looked for the answer elsewhere and couldn't find it (e.g., the whiteblaze homepage has links to lots of great info right there), so they ask something that isn't specifically covered anywhere else. imo, they should be welcomed as graciously as possible (even if it is to direct them to the answer somewhere else).

ya'll might be interested to know what i discovered when i interviewed over 50prospective thrus on springer this past march ('06). a good number of them mentioned that they didn't like this site because of the way they were treated when they asked a question or what they perceived to be the tenor of the discussions. oddly enough, they had a better opinion of trailplace. i think for straight-up gear and logistical questions (which is what they were looking for at the time), they felt more comfortable elsewhere.

personally, i appreciate rancor to a degree. i contribute sporadically myself and see it going overboard when folks take things personally and/or make personal comments. we should be discussing ISSUES not individuals! (my 2 cents on that).

[Pacific Tortuga]

I'm relatively new to WB. I remember a thread about a month ago where a person was asking how to be a Trail Angel. I recall that this thread was started by a new member (her first post I believe).

Result: She was absolutely POUNDED by all the experts here. Had I gotten the same response she did I would have just gone away, (as she likely did).

Amigi, as I recall, congratulated everyone for chasing away this new member.

Before I submit a post, I read it carefully and consider how I would feel if I had asked the question. Just a few words can make a big difference yet say the same thing.

That was the Briggs - Stratton personality indicator.