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Poll: Based on your own past experience with giardia, do you see a link between the existen

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  1. #61
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    Connection or, perhaps a better word to use, correlation, does not necessarily imply causation. A good example is, there is a strong correlation between obesity and the development of diabetes. Obesity may not be the cause of diabetes though. However, they are inter-related or correlated. Obesity is often a strong factor in the development of diabetes. I think what Relio was saying was there may be a correlation or connection or some type of relationship between sugar and Giardia/contracting Giardasis.

    It certainly seems to me that Medical Science says that a correlation exists between fungal infections of the gastrointestinal and urinary tracts and a diet high in sugar. Women should be aware of this if they have ever experienced vaginal yeast infections. Please, let's be adults.

  2. #62
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    I just want to clarify what this post is about, once again, since some people seem to be misunderstanding what is being proposed here:

    No one is proposing that sugar causes giardia. What is being proposed is that sugar and/or poor intestinal tract health may make the symptoms of giardia worse, and that some natural antibiotics like garlic may make symptoms of giardia better, and that someone with a healthy digestive tract who contracts giardia may have minimal or non-existent symptoms.

    Many people have traveled the AT without treating their water and without getting sick, and many other people have gotten sick on the trail even though they go to great pains to treat their water. Those who don't treat their water almost certainly have giardia cysts in their intestinal tract from drinking untreated water. So why doesn't this group get sick? I am proposing that perhaps the people who don't get sick are those who have a healthier intestinal environment that doesn't give the giardia cysts stuff to feed and multiply on (for example, sugar).
    I got this idea from a hiker I met on the Trail who had gotten giardia and been to the doctor, and the doctor told him 1) that lots of people have giardia in their intestinal tract but don't get sick from it, and 2) giardia feeds on sugar.
    A lot of people who post here make it sound like my proposal is preposterous, so I just want to reiterate that the original idea came from an MD who was apparently familiar with giardia.
    A lot of people who have posted have also said that if my giardia symptoms (or anyone's symptoms) were mild, I must not have had giardia because when you have giardia it's unmistakeably awful. Well, maybe your experience of giardia is unmistakeably awful if you have an unhealthy digestive tract that provides an evironment for the cyst to multiply. Maybe your experience of giardia is relatively mild if you have a relatively healthy digestive tract where the giardia cysts can't spin out of control. Maybe your experience of giardia is non-existent, even though you have giardia, if you have a healthy digestive tract that doesn't allow the giardia cysts to gain a foothold.
    A lot of people also speak demeaningly of using anecdotal evidence. Anecdotal evidence has been used as long as human history to good effect. Anecdotal evidence is not proof, but proof is hard to come by, and anecdotal evidence often proves very helpful. There's not likely to be major funding for a double blind study to study how intestinal tract health and sugar interact with giardia any time soon. Pharmaceutical companies don't make money off garlic or off understanding how to maintain a healthy intestinal tract in the first place. But even expensive double blind drug test studies don't prove anything. At best they indicate possible correlations (just like anecdotal evidence).
    Again, this thread is not an attempt to prove anything. It is a proposal and a sharing of experience. Enough people on this thread have shared experience that corresponds to my own experience that I do feel more convinced that, like the doctor implied, the severity of symptoms of giardia relate to the health of the intestinal tract (and that sugar tends to affect the health of the intestinal tract negatively and garlic tends to affect it positively). It seems to me that those who have argued against the point I'm making have, for the most part, not understood what I am saying.

  3. #63
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    Nice, well stated,sensible, and reasonable MerryMaker.

  4. #64
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    MakeMerry.

  5. #65
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    Experienced giardiasis once. My symptoms were not textbook. Only nausea, flatulent and light greasy stools (the later two were epic in their odoriferous nature). Took the egos of modern medicine 3 long months to diagnosis me. Finally a gnarly old GI doc asked if I ever went backpacking and drank "the water" 10 days on Metronidazole=generic Flagyl. Symptoms gone within 2 days. Used to cost about $7 for 10 day supply. Worst part is no booze while on the meds. Or maybe trying to catch the "greasies" in the little collection cups.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Options View Post
    ... Finally a gnarly old GI doc asked if I ever went backpacking and drank "the water" 10 days on Metronidazole=generic Flagyl. Symptoms gone within 2 days....
    A good question from an experienced GI.

  7. #67
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    Got it...........after a Fall section hike in NH

    Doctor was sure it was a virus.............antibiotics did not cure it.

    3 weeks later, stool sample, Giardia.

    Tinidazole 500mg, took 4 at once ..........DONE

  8. #68

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    Finally following up on my earlier post...

    In the end the garlic did not cure me, so I took flagyl, which did without any side effects (my gratitude to the makers of it). But the garlic had been controlling my symptoms, which leads me to believe there's something to it. That and the other anecdotal reports here seem to indicate that eating pungent foods helps deter the bugs. Hope I never have to try that again though.

    Sugar (and diet in general) will change the character of our gut. So say the bugs live on sugar, and we don't eat it, they find their way in, they can't hold on, they die off and we don't get sick.

  9. #69
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    Cured my daughter with garlic. She had dropped 10% of her body weight and was very ill. I used dried garlic though. 1/2 tsp twice a day in her food. She has regained all the weight and is doing well.

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyngbaeld View Post
    Cured my daughter with garlic. She had dropped 10% of her body weight and was very ill. I used dried garlic though. 1/2 tsp twice a day in her food. She has regained all the weight and is doing well.
    I'm sorry, but skeptical. One question is, How do you know it was Giardia? I don't care if you have 100% of the symptoms, that really doesn't mean a thing, symptoms are just a rule of thumb and they are applicable to so many maladies.

    Secondly, I don't believe garlic is a cure for this parasite, if it were it'd be common knowledge by now. Just like it's common knowledge that vitamin C is a fix for scurvy.

    Probably just her immune system kicked its ass, whatever it was. Or maybe it went into limbo and will return one day in the distant future. There are things that do that, you know?

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by makemerry View Post
    Several of you havel caught me on an assumption that was perhaps unwarranted--i.e. that I had giardia--so I will back off on on saying that I necessarily had giardia. But I'm still struck by the coincidences. I've gorged on sweets before and never gotten stomach pains. Never gotten stomach pains for any reason. The relief from stomach pains when I took the garlic was immediate, as if the garlic went right to work, killing the bad actors. The stomach pains had been ongoing for two days. Maybe not giardia. But is it also possible that it was giardia? It's hard to prove anything based on one experience. Whether or not I had giardia, I'm interested in other people's experience treating giardia by other means than flagyl and a trip to the doctor. Here's the webpage and the study that I got the idea to try garlic for my stomach pain from:

    http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C172355.html

    Researchers Soffar and Mokhtar performed an open trial investigating the use of garlic in giardiasis. Twenty-six children infected with G. lamblia took 5ml crude extract (fresh garlic blended with distilled water and then centrifuged and filtered to remove the solids) in 100ml water twice daily or a commercial garlic preparation two capsules (0.6mg capsules) twice daily for three days. Both preparations were given on an empty stomach two hours before meals. Clinical symptoms subsided in all cases within 36 hours. Parasitic cure (according to stool examinations) occurred within three days of beginning treatment.
    Prime example junk non science.
    Two FACTS that would probably destroy all social media if they were more widely understood.
    1. Correlation does not prove causation.
    2. anecdote is not evidence.

    For that to have any semblance of validity, there would need to be 26 infected children that DIDNT get garlic, and were still sick 3 days later.
    Thats how science works.
    What has been described here is how snakeoil salesmen work.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropdeadfred View Post
    Prime example junk non science.
    Two FACTS that would probably destroy all social media if they were more widely understood.
    1. Correlation does not prove causation.
    2. anecdote is not evidence.

    For that to have any semblance of validity, there would need to be 26 infected children that DIDNT get garlic, and were still sick 3 days later.
    Thats how science works.
    What has been described here is how snakeoil salesmen work.
    Well, ya' know, garlic can't cure EVERYTHING. But it still works on vampires. I've been eating it regularly for years and haven't gotten bit yet.
    I was self employed once, but it proved too stressful. My boss was a jerk and my employee was a slacker - I didn't know whether to quit or fire myself.

  13. #73

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    Someone with norovirus might think they had giardia. Norovirus symptoms generally start 12 to 48 hours after exposure, and people with norovirus generally get better in 1 to 3 days. It’s possible the OP had norovirus, not giardia, and would have quickly gotten better without taking garlic.

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by makemerry View Post
    I recently got giardia after a section hike from New York to Massachusetts...
    Did you have a positive antigen test in stool for Giardia? There are a lot of stomach bugs out there. I'm sorry for your luck

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by AsoloBootsSuk View Post
    Did you have a positive antigen test in stool for Giardia? There are a lot of stomach bugs out there. I'm sorry for your luck
    They haven't been here in nearly 8 years.

  16. #76

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    If you are clicking into a thread you have never seen before, it helps to check the dates of the last few posts. Reading the thread from the beginning and checking the dates on those is helpful too because it helps to identify the spammer that just posted for the first time on a topic that died. When that post is an oddball response it's because they aren't really a hiker and are trying to sell you on something. There's been some human assist type of spamming lately that sort of gets these in the right spots but the time gap usually makes it obvious on our end so just hit the little triangle with the exclamation point and we can get these cleared out.

    Anyway makemerry stuck around for about 7 years but hasn't posted in 8.
    "Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
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    Call for his whisky
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    Whiteblaze.net User Agreement.

  17. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alligator View Post
    If you are clicking into a thread you have never seen before, it helps to check the dates of the last few posts. Reading the thread from the beginning and checking the dates on those is helpful too because it helps to identify the spammer that just posted for the first time on a topic that died. When that post is an oddball response it's because they aren't really a hiker and are trying to sell you on something. There's been some human assist type of spamming lately that sort of gets these in the right spots but the time gap usually makes it obvious on our end so just hit the little triangle with the exclamation point and we can get these cleared out.

    Anyway makemerry stuck around for about 7 years but hasn't posted in 8.
    Thanks, I didn't notice the date. I sorted the forum by clicking on "todays posts". This 8 year old thread was in the top five

  18. #78
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    Quack, quack, quack! Studies of 1.
    He who diagnoses himself, has a fool for a patient.

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