Trail Magic Panel at the Gathering: Give Your Voice

[Gray Blazer]

It is what it is. A hiker feed.

I can live with that.

[Sly]

It is what it is. A hiker feed.

Yup, a hiker feed is a hiker feed, but it's also a gesture of kindness. Regardless, it's certainly not magic.

[The Old Fhart]

Pokey 2006-"Those things are special, but the term "Trail Magic" should be reserved for something a little more mysterious, a little more divine."

While I see what you are saying, I don't feel it is necessary to come up with another term to replace one that is already pretty widely accepted. If we were to get technical then the sunsets and butterflies you mention aren't really "magic" either. Magic doesn't have to be spontaneous to both the giver and receiver, only to the receiver (as Jester pointed out in the discussion group). If the butterfly could reason it certainly wouldn't consider its every day flitting about as magic any more than most people consider going to work every day as magic. Some people refer to "hiker feeds" as just that and don't use the term magic at all, no biggie.

I have been doing magic for hikers for over 25 years and some of the reasons I do it is to catch up on trail gossip, to hear the interesting stories that hikers have to tell, and to return the kindness others have shown me and I haven't been able to directly return. There is a well established centuries old tradition of passing on the blessings you have received and I see trail magic as no different.

I have been the recipient of different types of trail magic many times in my over 45 years of hiking and I plan to continue the tradition. To comment on what a previous poster said, in 1998 I happened on the RAT Patrol in Brown's Gap and every time I've see RAT since then, including this past Gathering I make a point of saying "hi" and shaking his hand. Some lines of one of his songs I heard that evening at the campfire still echos in my head- that is true magic, even though it was just a planned hiker feed to them. I couldn't believe the amount and variety of the food they had and their willingness to give-truly first rate magic. But trail magic doesn't have to be on a large scale or even food. I remember in 1987, on a road walk down south that no longer exists, having a man out in his small garden next to the road, ask me where I was from. We had a nice conversation and I found out that many years ago he had worked and lived not so far from my home in NH. We had that connection and could talk about what we had in common before each of us went back to doing something we enjoyed. Sometimes just the smallest reminder of home or a kind word from a stranger means a lot.

I have found sodas in streams and was greatful for them plus I carried my empties out as I would any of my other trash. Unfortunately I have found the empty styrofoam coolers full of trash that others have left and now see unattended magic as a problem for many reasons although the intentions of the givers are to help. The magic I do on my own is to sit at a road crossing and hand out sodas and snacks, make sandwiches, and give the hikers a chance to rest. When I see a hiker coming out of the woods, I'll ask them if they are hungry. More than once I've got the reply that they are just a section or weekend hiker to which my reply is: "that wasn't my question, are you hungry?" I feel that to restrict your magic to just thrus isn't right, after all, a lot of trail magic comes from section or even non-hikers.

[Sly]

Fhart your road walk encounter was "magic" for example something unexpected, spirit lifting. I think the meaning has morphed with the advent of hiker feeds, coolers and such.

Yes, "trail magic" as it's known today is widely accepted, but that doesn't mean it's correct.

What would Earl say?

[The Old Fhart]

Sly-"What would Earl say?"

"We don't need no floors in shelters."

[MOWGLI]

Magic doesn't have to be spontaneous to both the giver and receiver, only to the receiver (as Jester pointed out in the discussion group).

That's true, but when events are promoted for weeks ahead of time on the internet and other places (including the hiker grapevine) it does take away virtually all of the sponatneity, or however the hell you spell it.

[Vi+]

Oh, boy, a contest.

How many ways can we split a hair?

[MOWGLI]

What would Earl say?

According to Earl's brother, he would say "we need a western alternative to the Appalachian Trail." The Great Eastern Trail = Trail Magic!

[Sly]

Oh, boy, a contest.

How many ways can we split a hair?

Depends on how long the hair is. The one accross your azz? Not too many.

[The Old Fhart]

MOWGLI16-"That's true, but when events are promoted for weeks ahead of time on the internet and other places (including the hiker grapevine) it does take away virtually all of the sponatneity, or however the hell you spell it."

While I'm inclined to agree, how can you have a surprise birthday party?

[Sly]

Hey Jeff, how long is it expected before the GET is completed between AL and NY? How many miles are unconnected now?

[MOWGLI]

Hey Jeff, how long is it expected before the GET is completed between AL and NY? How many miles are unconnected now?

There are about 1000+ miles of trail on the ground, give or take out of 1800. Some gaps will take longer that others. PATC is working on tying together 150 miles in the GW NF between the Allegheny Trail and the Tuscarora. Roni from Israel may be walking that in the next few weeks. He was thinking about it when I left The Gathering.

It may take 20+ years before all of it is done. Hard to say. We have a thru-j\hiker who is going to try and walk it next year. There is a good bit of road walking, but we'll provide her with lots of support.

Stay tuned and check your local listings.

[Tha Wookie]

While I'm inclined to agree, how can you have a surprise birthday party?

Well you don't advertise it to the recipiants.

[Jack Tarlin]

I just read this entire thread.

I must say I was astounded at Warren Doyle's post (#5) early in the thread.

That he acknowledges that he has no respect for those who lecture on the "Leave No Trace" philosophy does not remotely surprise me; that he says that "Trail Freedom" is important to him doesn't surprise me either. Of course, visitors to Whiteblaze will recall that Doyle's remarkable vision of "Trail Freedom" includes his frequently cited failure to pay user fees on private property; defrauding movie theater proprietors; scamming food in restaurants without paying it for it; the trashing of hostels by groups operating under his "leadership", and so on.

If this is "Trail Freedom" it is well that this sort of freedom doesn't seem to be embraced by too many other hikers.

Anyway, none of this particularly surprised me, but when I saw that Doyle had the audacity to criticize folks who use walking poles or carrry stoves or brand new backpacks, etc., as contributing somehow to negative impact on the environment.....well I had to laugh.

Well, he's maybe right about one thing......Warren hasn't used up a lot of metal and fabric over the years by buying new packpacks, because after all, he very seldom carries one.

And likewise, when you've relied on vehicular support (including water jugs freshly filled with town water) for most of your A.T. miles, I guess that means that you don't have to re-purchase water filters, either, which saves all sorts of plastic, O-rings, and so on.

But if one really wants to talk about negative impact on the environment, I think it's pretty obvious that a hiker who by his own admission has relied on an automotive support team for the vast majority of his thru or section hikes has a MUCH greater daily impact on the environment than one who actually carries his own stuff, and who can go days---or even weeks---without riding in or relying on a car or van.

For Doyle to criticize other hikers for their alleged negative impact on the environment while he himself has done most of his hiking while daily depending on the presence of a fuel-burning support vehicle is about the most hypocritical, ridiculous, and utterly false thing I've seen here in quite some time.

Most hikers don't travel with a vehicle, Mr. Doyle, and over the course of a week, month, or entire thru-hike, they burn up or account for a hell of a lot less fossil fuel than those with continuous car support. And I daresay that hikers that carry their own gear and don't camp by roadsides produce a hell of a lot less garbage than those who are constantly getting replenished by car.

In short, Doyle's posturing in his posts here on this thread are a joke.

Lose the support van, bub, and then tell us how we can all be kinder to the environment, OK?

Otherwise, like your vehicle, you're just blowin' smoke.

[Lone Wolf]

Oh s**t! Here we go with the Warren hating stuff again.

[Jack Tarlin]

What are you talking about, Wolf?

Warren was the one who initiated the discussion of impact on the environment, not me, and not anyone else.

Are you saying that he's somehow absolved from people commenting on his posts? Since when does he get a pass here on Whiteblaze?

If he didn't want people to discuss how hikers impact the environment, well Gee Whiz, Wolf, maybe he shouldn't have brought the subject up.

And criticizing someone---or pointing out the weaknesses in their posts---
doesn't mean that hatred is involved.

The guy said dumb, hypocritical things. And other folks pointed this out, such as Chomp, Max Patch, etc. They said this IMMEDIATELY after Warren posted his comments. But I don't reacall you taking them to task, Wolf.

But when I say the exact same things, it is "Warren hating stuff."

Nope.

But not to worry, Wolf, for you are reliable as I am: When Mr. Doyle says something foolish here, you better believe I reserve the right to comment on it. Just as you reserve the right to kiss him to sooth his hurt feelings.

And it's clear where the kiss is usually planted.

[Lone Wolf]

Unlike you, Warren's feelings don't get hurt by posts on here. You're ALWAYS Mr. Defensive when your name is mentioned. Just admit you have an unhealthy dislike for Warren.

[Jack Tarlin]

Geez, a minute ago it was "hatred."

Now, it's "unhealthy dislike."

What'll it be in two minutes, "a certain disdain?"

Since you seem so interested, Wolf, I'll tell you what I don't care for about Warren:

*I resent that he primarily uses this website to sell information that other
hikers share freely with others. I think this is tacky in the extreme.

*I don't like some of the things he advocates, or that he advises other
hikers to do. In many cases, I feel he sugests things that are bad for
the Trail and the Trail community. I think he gives lousy advice to new-
comers to the Trail here and elsewhere; I feel that he provides a lousy
leadership role while on the Trail.

*I don't like his continued efforts to sabotage the efforts of the Endangered
Services Campaign, whose purpose was to encourage better behavior from
hikers while on or near the Trail. Not one single person has done more to
criticize or hinder this campaign than has Warren Doyle, despite the fact
that the campaign has been heartily endorsed by ALDHA, the very organ-
ization that Warren founded. The ES Campaign had one purpose: To instill
in hikers the realization that their behavior and actions could have a
negative impact on the Trail and those who hike it. By becoming a frequent
public opponent of this campaign, Doyle has provided a horrible example to
other hikers, especially new ones.

*I don't like his actions at Trail gatherings and get-togethers, where he has
taken advantage of public microphones to push a personal political agenda;
on other occasions, he has exagerrated, or even invented false rules and
regulations, with the sole intent of discouraging certain folks from attending
these events. He has a bad track record of being remarkably inconsiderate
to other hikers: He himself made it recently clear that a top priority for him-
self is "Trail Freedom." All too often, he feels this freedom is the right to do
or say what he pleases, regardless of the felings or sentiments of others.

*Lastly, I don't like that he refuses to respond to his critics and only replies
to folks who sing his praises. This is an interactive website. He tends to
drop bombs here, and then scuttle away for awhile, refusing to either
respont to, or even acknowledge anyone with the temerity to disagree with
him. This is as cowardly as it is childish.

I trust this answers some of Wolf's questions.

[Jack Tarlin]

Having said the above, I'm going to leave off the Doyle discussion for awhile, unless Wolf says something so outrageous that it demands a reply.

This thread was about Trail Magic, and I hope it returns to that subject, tho it was indeed Mr. Doyle who introduced the subject of environmental impact.

In any case, I hope the thread gets back on line, as it's an important subject.

[rgarling]

I am quite sure Warren's footprint on the earth is quite small, despite using support vehicles for his thru-hiking groups.

I certainly wouldn't want to challenge him to a "small footprint" contest, and I'm a reuse, recycle, cheapskate.