Trail Magic Panel at the Gathering: Give Your Voice

[Tha Wookie]

For this year's ALDHA Gathering, the ATC has put together a panel of people together to facilitate a discussion about the progression of trail magic from "small, spontaneous acts of kindness" to current forms like pre-planned trail magic events and how it relates to the AT experience.

This is your chance to be involved in an Applachian Trail discussion that matters. In person.

Each panelist will make a statement, and then the floor will be open for statements from anyone.

Our panel session is in the Subway (basement of the Student Center): Saturday, 11:15-12:15. You are encouraged to attend and participate.


Panel Members:

Laurie Potteiger
Moderator, ATC Staff

Dr. Jeff Marion
Scientist (Recreation ecologist/Leading expert on Leave No Trace, A.T.section hiker), ATC Stewardship council

Hawk Metheny
ATC (Stewardship Council Chair), A.T. thru-hiker

Pete Irvine
Agency Partner (Appalachian Trail Park Office USFS Liaison), Trail maintainer

Ray Ronin
Trail angel (off-trail feed-a-thon in the Bigelows), A.T. thru-hiker, MATC maintainer

Nate Olive, M.A.
A.T. thru-hiker, PCT, West Coast Trail, CT, Ph.D. candidate, active WhiteBlaze poster

Dr. Kip Redick
Spiritual/Philosophical Dimension (Professor of Religion and Philosophy at Christopher Newport University)

And you

[attroll]

I sure would like to attend this because I have my thoughts and opinions on this. I have expressed them with Walkin Home and he will be attending and it seems like we both have the same opinions on this.

To make a long story short though. There is no way the ATC can control Trail Magic. The only thing they can really do is to express LNT (Leave No Trace) for those doing trail magic. The biggest issue I have seen that needs to be addressed is people leaving coolers and trash bags at road stops with trail magic in them and never going back to pick up the remains of what is left when the trail magic is gone. I have been to road stops in Maine along the AT to leave trail Magic and found Styrofoam coolers left for trail magic that someone never came back to get.

[Jaybird]

.....
To make a long story short though. There is no way the ATC can control Trail Magic. The only thing they can really do is to express LNT (Leave No Trace) for those doing trail magic. The biggest issue I have seen that needs to be addressed is people leaving coolers and trash bags at road stops with trail magic in them and never going back to pick up the remains of what is left when the trail magic is gone. .....

always gonna be ATTROLL!

in fact...unless someone leaves a "nice" cooler with TM goodies....the STYROFOAM will be left & destroyed & the pieces blowing all across the trail in a matter of days...

if the well-meaning folks leaving the "magic" wont come back by to "clean up the mess"...then maybe a good-hearted (LNT) hiker needs to carry the styro-foam to the next TRASH bin!

just a suggestion.

[warren doyle]

I hope the panel goes well. It is an interesting topic.

Trail Magic isn't as important to me as Trail Freedom, so I have no strong opinions either way on the former.

However, until all the 'Leave No Trace' advocates/do-gooders wear a $1 pair of sneakers for hiking; wear thrift store/hiker box obtained hiking clothes; use a $1 yard sale ski pole rather than two brand new Lekis; have neither stoves, tents, water filters nor brand new backpacks; and, don't drive around in brand new vehicles with a myriad of corporate labels on them espousing LNT; I will not respect their lectures and continue to use my individual common sense, and personal value system, on how I impact the environment.

Hike free and live!

[Tha Wookie]

I hope the panel goes well. It is an interesting topic.

Trail Magic isn't as important to me as Trail Freedom, so I have no strong opinions either way on the former.

However, until all the 'Leave No Trace' advocates/do-gooders wear a $1 pair of sneakers for hiking; wear thrift store/hiker box obtained hiking clothes; use a $1 yard sale ski pole rather than two brand new Lekis; have neither stoves, tents, water filters nor brand new backpacks; and, don't drive around in brand new vehicles with a myriad of corporate labels on them espousing LNT; I will not respect their lectures and continue to use my individual common sense, and personal value system, on how I impact the environment.

Hike free and live!

Warren,

I hear what you're saying.

I'd love to hear what you have to say about Trail Magic as it relates to Trail Freedom, be it here and/or in the panel discussion. Thanks for your input.

[Tha Wookie]

Can you give a summary or give the conclusions/reccomendations of the panel after the gathering?

I will see if they have a scribe or try and get something together myself. I just don't want to touch a computer this weekend!

[MacGyver2005]

I hope the panel goes well. It is an interesting topic.

Trail Magic isn't as important to me as Trail Freedom, so I have no strong opinions either way on the former.

However, until all the 'Leave No Trace' advocates/do-gooders wear a $1 pair of sneakers for hiking; wear thrift store/hiker box obtained hiking clothes; use a $1 yard sale ski pole rather than two brand new Lekis; have neither stoves, tents, water filters nor brand new backpacks; and, don't drive around in brand new vehicles with a myriad of corporate labels on them espousing LNT; I will not respect their lectures and continue to use my individual common sense, and personal value system, on how I impact the environment.

Hike free and live!

I respect your opinions, but fail to see the connection between the cost of footwear and LNT. I don't mean to thread hi-jack, so please feel free to PM me if you don't mind explaining your thinking.

Regards,
-MacGyver
GA-->ME

[Peaks]

While trail magic is nice, it really effects so few hikers. If you want to give back to the trail, then get involved with maintenance. That way, everyone can benefit, not just the select few who happen to be in the right place at the right time.

[max patch]

This is your chance to be involved in an Applachian Trail discussion that matters.

It doesn't "matter" cuz whatever is discussed or decided at the panel discussion nothing is going to change on the trail either one way or the other.

Heres my thots on what will happen. The ATC rep will take a middle of the road position so as to not piss off one side or the other. Something along the lines of that the top of Max Patch is not a particularly good place for a feed, but that on the side of the road before Max would be better.

Then the other panelists will either give opinions ranging from no majic anywhere to more majic everywhere.

And nothing will change.

Why? Because most majic is done for the self gratification of the giver -- not for the benefit of the receiver.

[fiddlehead]

I'm not sure i understand what's wrong with tents? or stoves? Warren?

[chomp]

I hope the panel goes well. It is an interesting topic.

Trail Magic isn't as important to me as Trail Freedom, so I have no strong opinions either way on the former.

However, until all the 'Leave No Trace' advocates/do-gooders wear a $1 pair of sneakers for hiking; wear thrift store/hiker box obtained hiking clothes; use a $1 yard sale ski pole rather than two brand new Lekis; have neither stoves, tents, water filters nor brand new backpacks; and, don't drive around in brand new vehicles with a myriad of corporate labels on them espousing LNT; I will not respect their lectures and continue to use my individual common sense, and personal value system, on how I impact the environment.

Hike free and live!

Thank god most thru-hikers actually backpack instead of hike from road to road with car support. Can you imagine the carbon consumption on that kind of thru-hike? If you were to hike like this and look down on someone for using a stove or buying a pair of Leki's... well, you would look like a big, giant hypocrite.

[dharmabum86]

I'm not sure i understand what's wrong with tents? or stoves? Warren?

I'm with you. I'm not sure I grasp the concept of what new gear has to do with LNT and Trail Magic. I know I'm gonna ripped a new one for asking the next question and I know it is completely off topic. But am I less a hiker for being a gearhead???

As far as the discussion, I'd love to be there. Sounds like a great time to explore lots of opinions on the subject! Thanks for letting us know Wookie!!!

[max patch]

Thank god most thru-hikers actually backpack instead of hike from road to road with car support. Can you imagine the carbon consumption on that kind of thru-hike? If you were to hike like this and look down on someone for using a stove or buying a pair of Leki's... well, you would look like a big, giant hypocrite.

Excellent point.

[Tha Wookie]

I guess we could have our own panel debate here...

There have been some extensive threads here on this issue.

They are being taken into consideration, as will future comments. From what I can tell, the ATC has really made an effort to see what people think about it, to encourage a healthy dialogue.

I think these types of things are best discussed in person, interms of arriving at concrete results and conclusions. These forums compliment the process very well by providing an initial "airing" of thoughts, opinions, ect.

[warren doyle]

It all has to do with how many of the earth's resources are used to make a thing. Everyone agrees that 'reuse/recycle' reduces our individual impact on the environment. Isn't that what LNT is about? Frugality by its very nature is less impactful on the environment than a normal consumption patttern.

When I buy a hiking sneaker, or boot, at a thrift store for $1-3, I am not buying a new one. I am recycling/reusing.

If I don't use a stove, I don't have to buy one (and one doesn't have to be made).

A tarp, especially one you make out of remnants found at Walmart, uses less of the earth resources than a tent or a premanufactured tarp.

What inpact would long distance hiking/backpacking have on the environment if all backpackers/hikers were this frugal? What if all the outfitters were not needed anymore? Now, that's leading to LNT.

I find it ludicrous that LNT is such a big issue. I feel that long distance hikers already know and practice LNT. I rather have these do-gooders go after the real culprits - businessmen, advertisers and the military-industrial complex. They have much more impact on the environment than us. Go peddle your LNT to them and not to me!

Perhaps a cultural revolutiuon is in order - anti-consumption! anti-comfort!

[Alligator]

...
When I buy a hiking sneaker, or boot, at a thrift store for $1-3, I am not buying a new one. I am recycling/reusing.
...

If I buy something new and use it until it wears out, we have both done the same thing. That is, gotten as much life out of a product that was once new. You're reasoning is flawed. You should be complaining about the folks who fail to completely use up the product and instead cast them off to Goodwill.

[jesse]

The biggest issue I have seen that needs to be addressed is people leaving coolers and trash bags at road stops with trail magic in them and never going back to pick up the remains of what is left

It is never, never, never, never,never,never ok to leave unattended coolers anywhere, even with the intention of going back to pick it up, nor is it acceptable to leave beer bottles in streams.
Pack it in, you pack it out.
Not pack it in and leave it because.... or pack it in pack it out unless...
If you pack it in you pack it out period. paragraph.
Trail angels and trail majic are ok, as ong as they do not think they are entitled to an exemption to the LNT tradition.

[MacGyver2005]

Warren, thank you for the clarification. I disagree, as I feel that LNT serves a different purpose, but life is full of disagreements...I just prefer to understand them.

Regards,
-MacGyver
GA-->ME

[dharmabum86]

Thank you very much for your last post. I absolutely see your point, whereas prior to that post I was immensely on the defensive. I also see Alligators point as well. Both of you have brought to my attention 2 different facets of this topic that, eventhough they may be obvious, I had never thought of before. Thanks again to the both of you. I have sufficiently been put in my place Open mouth, insert boot!

[warren doyle]

MacGyver2005 and dharmabum86 - I appreciate your reasoned responses.

I think the only people I would listen to about the topic of LNT would be Gandhi in his later years and monks.

I cannot respect messengers of LNT who have more physical impact on the environment than I do.