Winter AT Start 2007

[4eyedbuzzard]

In the future Old Fhart, could you rant and rave through a PM instead of dragging everyone here through this whole bunch-o-bull*****. Hike your own hike and let others do the same. Thanks

What? And deprive the rest of us from all this free entertainment?

[Wolf - 23000]

Old fart, are you Bill Bryson. Come on you can tell us. You both write made up stories and when someone is actually able to do some of the things you consider impossible, you call them super human or invincible. I have never made any such claim in any of my post. And just like in the summer, there are risk going in the wilderness. The different is I accept the risk while your sorry butt would be praying someone comes out after you risking their safety. It not a macho ego, it is just excepting the wilderness as just that – the wilderness. Things happen. And several hikers have known I was out there during some very bad storms.

“However, what you have written paints an entirely different picture. What we get is someone who breaks all the safety rules, has near tragic ‘accidents’ yet claims he is invincible. You say “I don't suggest anyone try winter hiking New England unless they real know what they are doing and are prepared for the danger it involves" but you obviously go out totally unprepared and routinely have accidents and problems that could easily cost you your life.”

First I don’t go out unprepared. I carry everything I need that has kept me a live while your sorry butt is in the house. My Maine winter trip I was out there for a month, winter hiking VT/NH I was out for 5 weeks (prior to my current job). It is a different environment after you get pass the popular winter areas. It a little difficult to see bog bridges while their several feet under snow hint why I was in several feet of water. It is not being unprepared. I just the way things happen and yes that the risk of being out there. I can only warn hikers of some of the dangers but everyone is a big girl/boy. They make their own choice to be out there or not.

“Your claim to be a super hiker and therefore won’t have problems yet I’m sure the climbers who do K2 or Everest are an order of magnitude superior to you in knowledge, experience, and equipment yet how many of them have died?”

Does a movie called, “Walking into Thin Air” ring a bell. Let me refresh your memory. The guides took rookies climbers up a mountain they had no business on. It cost the guides and some of their clients their lives. They were all with someone, yet they came out dead. The guides do have more experience then myself climbing, knowledge of equipment I can hold my own. I may not like talking about equipment much but I know my stuff.

You sure you won’t use TP, your eyes really are BROWN with the BS you been spreading around.

Wolf

[The Old Fhart]

Let me make this real simple so you might get it the third time around.

Wolf - 23000…when someone is actually able to do some of the things you consider impossible..

read this slowly so it sinks in: I never said what you did was impossible, just extremely stupid, get the difference? The fact that you would think I thought your walks in the woods impossible just goes to show what you think of your abilities compared to the ability of all other hikers.

Wolf - 23000-The different is I accept the risk while your sorry butt would be praying someone comes out after you risking their safety.

If you only knew how humorous that statement is! You still just don’t get it, do you? The point is that someone would come out to get anyone in trouble, even you. While you seem to want prove how great you are by belittling others and want to emulate Alexander SuperTramp and become one with nature, any sane person only takes reasonable and calculated risks.

Wolf - 23000-I carry everything I need that has kept me a live while your sorry butt is in the house.

A farcical statement that can only be called ignorant because you know nothing about what my experience is. But then again, I’d expect no more from you.

Wolf - 23000-It a little difficult to see bog bridges while their several feet under snow,blah, blah, blah.

Please don’t bore me with this dribble. I just wish there were trails some of the places I’ve gone in winter, you aren’t impressing me in the least.

Just admit that you go out to please yourself and it has nothing to do with your safety, or the safety of others, and quit presenting your mundane hikes as epic adventures that only the mighty Wolf can do. Give it a rest.

[Frosty]

I really enjoy a good discussion, when someone posts some bit of information, and someone else's posts different infromation and opinions on the same topic.

In another thread, someone had thoughts on the lost hiker. I had other thoughts. 4eyedbuzzard disagreed with some of what I said and gave what he thought, and the discussion went on. No one called anyone else names, no one tried to negate any one else's opinions/beliefs/whatever. Just a flow of information back and forth.

So why do some threads degenerate into picking apart someone else's posts and ridiculing the other person instead of talking about the topic?

Here we arguably have the two most experienced and knowledgable winter hikers on WB, who could provide us with tons of information, and all we get is:
- you're full of crap
- no, you are
- you're ignorant
- you're full of crap
- i said it first

Please. Lots of us like to hike in winter and have no where the knowledge or experience you two do. Give us information, not insults. If the information conflicts, so what? The world is full of conflicting experts. HIkers are used to listening to pros and cons and deciding what is best for them.

Thanks

[Lone Wolf]

I really enjoy a good discussion, when someone posts some bit of information, and someone else's posts different infromation and opinions on the same topic.

In another thread, someone had thoughts on the lost hiker. I had other thoughts. 4eyedbuzzard disagreed with some of what I said and gave what he thought, and the discussion went on. No one called anyone else names, no one tried to negate any one else's opinions/beliefs/whatever. Just a flow of information back and forth.

So why do some threads degenerate into picking apart someone else's posts and ridiculing the other person instead of talking about the topic?

Here we arguably have the two most experienced and knowledgable winter hikers on WB, who could provide us with tons of information, and all we get is:
- you're full of crap
- no, you are
- you're ignorant
- you're full of crap
- i said it first

Please. Lots of us like to hike in winter and have no where the knowledge or experience you two do. Give us information, not insults. If the information conflicts, so what? The world is full of conflicting experts. HIkers are used to listening to pros and cons and deciding what is best for them.

Thanks

big f ckn egos, man!

[woodsy]

Hey Wolf
Thanks for sharing some of your stories about your winter trek
I really enjoyed reading about parts of your your trip across Maine.
You should write a book about it ,I'm sure you could. $$$$$$$$

[The Old Fhart]

Frosty(claiming I said) "- you're ignorant"

What you 'claim' I said is distorting the facts. Lets get this right, Frosty, I said: "A farcical statement that can only be called ignorant. The definition of ignorant means 'lacking knowledge about a particular subject'. The statement is ignorant because Wolf has no knowledge of what my experience level is, I did not call him ignorant as you implied. If that's how you want to paint him, say so, don't drag me into it.

[The Old Fhart]

Woodsy-"You should write a book about it ,I'm sure you could."

It's already been done, though not on as grand a scale as Wolf's adventure. It's called 'The Long Walk' by Slavomir Rawicz.

[woodsy]

It's already been done, though not on as grand a scale as Wolf's adventure. It's called 'The Long Walk' by Slavomir Rawicz.

I'll check it out, thats helpful

[4eyedbuzzard]

I really enjoy a good discussion, when someone posts some bit of information, and someone else's posts different information and opinions on the same topic.

In another thread, someone had thoughts on the lost hiker. I had other thoughts. 4eyedbuzzard disagreed with some of what I said and gave what he thought, and the discussion went on. No one called anyone else names, no one tried to negate any one else's opinions/beliefs/whatever. Just a flow of information back and forth.

Thank you. And although I am an opinionated SOB that doesn't mean I don't learn a thing or too from those I disagree with, and sometimes even come to the conclusion that I am, er, ah (gasp) wrong. In hindsight the lost hiker's equipment was pretty good - it was his decision to separate himself from suitable common equipment that brought about the more life-threatening situation.

[ferryman]

Hey Folks, Let's bring the BP levels down a little bit. I, for one, cannot count the number of times I have made less than brilliant moves on wild rivers and tall mountains, where my engine gets stuck in the SOL gear! Somehow, in all our pursuits of "riding the edge" we manage to arrive back home relatively unscathed save a few bruises and campfire stories. I consider Wolf-23,000, a good friend, trustworthy ferry operator (he worked the ferry service in 1991) and competent all-weather long distance hiker. Is there alot of experienced outdoorspersons who all had to "get burned to learn" out there, then let's write about the experiences and hold back on the expletives. BTW, I'm off to "tax-free" NH for a WFA course this weekend entitled " It only takes one misstep on Tuckerman's....Do you feel lucky today, well do ya punk!" It sounds like a pretty interesting class! Steve

[Wolf - 23000]

I never said what you did was impossible, just extremely stupid, get the difference? The fact that you would think I thought your walks in the woods impossible just goes to show what you think of your abilities compared to the ability of all other hikers.

Most people in America would consider hiking the AT as extremely stupid if they never did it or spend little time in the woods. And yes, I do have a lot of faith in my abilities. Winter hiking Maine was something I just did. I build up to it. I have a good amount of experience winter hiking. There nothing stupid about it. You can live your life safe and snug in your warm house or you can go out there and do something with it and enjoy it. There is some risk involve but that life. Deal with it.

If you only knew how humorous that statement is! You still just don’t get it, do you? The point is that someone would come out to get anyone in trouble, even you. While you seem to want prove how great you are by belittling others and want to emulate Alexander SuperTramp and become one with nature, any sane person only takes reasonable and calculated risks.

I have not belittle anyone. I haven’t told anyone they can’t do it or what they are doing is “extremely stupid” unlike someone. I point out that it something you need to build up to, these are some of the risk and not go out there half cock and get themselves killed or someone else. I plan everything very carefully, had some very good gear and knew how to use it and use the most important piece of equipment my own head. There were some times I weight safety vs hiking on the AT. I took the best route that got me through safely.

“A farcical statement that can only be called ignorant because you know nothing about what my experience is. But then again, I’d expect no more from you,”

You’re the one who call bad mouth winter hiking Maine. It normal done by someone who has never done it or has limit experience. So please educate me on what all you have done.

Please don’t bore me with this dribble. I just wish there were trails some of the places I’ve gone in winter, you aren’t impressing me in the least.

Just admit that you go out to please yourself and it has nothing to do with your safety, or the safety of others, and quit presenting your mundane hikes as epic adventures that only the mighty Wolf can do. Give it a rest.

I haven’t put anything out there to impress anyone, How talking about bog bridges being under snow would impress anyone I will never understand but any way. And I’ve gone winter hiking off-trail too but at the time staying on the AT as much as possible was my goal and that what I did.

I’ve never said I was the mighty Wolf and only I could do it so please stop making things up. If you read the beginning post, you would find out gardenville asking about Maine in the winter something I’ve done. I never said he could or could not do it but point out some of the things that he could expect being out there from my own experience.

And ok, I will admit that I do go out there to please myself. I enjoy being out there and wish only I could do it more. I also make sure I keep myself safe and have fun at the same time. But one thing I don’t like is when someone straight out lies about me, quoting me for things I never said or put down my hiking because they wouldn’t do it. So it a rest.

Wolf

[Frosty]

What you 'claim' I said is distorting the facts. Lets get this right, Frosty, I said: "A farcical statement that can only be called ignorant. The definition of ignorant means 'lacking knowledge about a particular subject'. The statement is ignorant because Wolf has no knowledge of what my experience level is, I did not call him ignorant as you implied. If that's how you want to paint him, say so, don't drag me into it.

I didn't quote you on anything. Just tried to capture a bit of the silliness of the tone of the bickering, without attribution to either. I apologize if you were offended. In retrospect, I shouldn't have had that part in, anyway. My feeble attempts at humor seldom come across as funny on the internet.

[Gray Blazer]

I didn't quote you on anything. Just tried to capture a bit of the silliness of the tone of the bickering, without attribution to either. I apologize if you were offended. In retrospect, I shouldn't have had that part in, anyway. My feeble attempts at humor seldom come across as funny on the internet.

I thought it was funny. I got it, but maybe that's because I am an elementary school music teacher. BTW Frosty,speaking of winter starts, are you going to continue your hike soon?

[woodsy]

Higher Summits Forecast

Mountain weather is subject to rapid changes and extreme conditions. Always be prepared to make your own assessment of travel and weather conditions. This outlook is one tool to help you plan a safe trip. Always travel with adequate clothing, shelter, food, and water.
Thursday, January 25, 2007
3:47 PM
Severe wind chills on the summits.
There isn’t a strong influence on our weather today. Mostly clear skies give way to increasing clouds above and below the peaks later. Some models have the higher summits in a dry slot between clouds above and undercast below tonight. The mountains will see areas of fog overnight and with winds picking up just a bit it is likely periods of fog will overcome the higher summits as well. There is a slight chance the mountains will see some occasional light snow tonight in addition. Colder air draws down from Canada today. As a low pressure system off the coast intensifies it will continue to pull cold air from the north and we’ll see temperatures fall as low as 30 below tonight rising only slightly during the day Friday. There isn’t much danger of precipitation from this low but we’ll feel it as the cold cuts with wind chills at 60 to 70 below on the peaks. For those planning a hike, conditions will be far more hazardous then they might appear at a glance.
Jon Cotton
Observer

[Jack Tarlin]

You got that right.

It's presently two degrees in Hanover but with the wind, it is effectively 7 below zero.

Tomorrow's supposed to be colder.

Don't even wanna think about what it's like at 5,000 feet.

NOT a weekend for the White Mountains!!

[Frosty]

What's with the weather anyway? I spend the whole winter never wearing anything heavier than a quilted shirt, and all of a sudden it seems like I'm living in Carter Notch or something.

[tiamalle]

You got that right.

It's presently two degrees in Hanover but with the wind, it is effectively 7 below zero.

Tomorrow's supposed to be colder.

Don't even wanna think about what it's like at 5,000 feet.

NOT a weekend for the White Mountains!!

Frosty & Jack it is cold in the south tonight also.Local radio predicts around 12 here in Franklin tonight

[quicktoez]

I have done quite a bit of winter camping, climbed most of the way up Mt. Washington in March among others. This I did on Tele skis with a guide and 15 years of teleskiing experience. We camped on a 10 foot snow pack and had many challenges including falling into tree holes. I admire your goal but think you might find this difficult if not dangerous and don't even think about doing that alone. Good luck, may your tracks be long.

[Mags]

Speaking of New England weather....

http://www.theonion.com/content/news..._freak_january

When in doubt, go to The Onion.