A retort to Minnesota Smith

[Speer Carrier]

Since "the thread" is about dead, I thought I'd start to a new thread to offer a retort to the notion that MS was offering a while back when he said the trail is not being adequately maintained.

In my current copy of "Blowdown" an online newsletter for trail overseers who belong to the Georgia Appalachian Trail Club, these statistics were offered:

I 2006, the number of hours spent in trail maintenance by all maintaining clubs was 190,017 volunteer hours.

The Maine Club led the list with 25,021 hours, The Potomac Club was second with 19,019, and I'm proud to say, Georgia was third with 17,225.

MS may know a lot about a lot of things, but on the subject of volunteer hours maintaining the AT he is way off.

[Skidsteer]

Speer Carrier, you should copy this to The Thread to insure a response from MS.

Reports of The Thread's demise are greatly exaggerated.

[jlb2012]

In my current copy of "Blowdown" an online newsletter for trail overseers who belong to the Georgia Appalachian Trail Club, ...

Is this newsletter ONLY available to GATC overseers? If not is there a link to old/current copies?

[Jack Tarlin]

In my experience, the people who complain the most about Trail conditions and maintenance tend to be people who haven't done much, if any.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Gasp - Jack and I have agreed on something.
::: off to iron the fabric of the universe :::

[Mother Nature]

Is this newsletter ONLY available to GATC overseers? If not is there a link to old/current copies?

The Blowdown is distributed in .pdf format. I can forward my Overseers copy to you if you want to send me a PM.

Mother Nature

[Topcat]

What a great name for your newsletter. It always amazes me that somethign like the AT can be maintained by a completely volunteer workforce.

[TJ aka Teej]

I met Minnesota Smith at Katahdin, and it took only a few moments for him to start complaining about the condition of the trail and the maintainers. Later on I had a campfire a-going and Dogwood from New Jersey stopped by for a while, telling Possum and I about the great time he had thru-hiking and his plans to bring other people out onto the AT and to join one of the local-to-him maintaining crews. Nice guy, that Dogwood was.

[The Solemates]

MS may know a lot about a lot of things, but on the subject of volunteer hours maintaining the AT he is way off.

actually, go back and read his threads. his responses show that he knows very little about a whole lot of things.

[magic_game03]

actually, go back and read THEIR (the Solemates) threads. Their responses show that they know very little about a whole lot of things.

[minnesotasmith]

In 9 months on the AT, not once did I see anyone painting a blaze. Many sections had blazes all of which were obviously many years old. (I knew perfectly well before I set foot on the AT what old paint looks like.) I did not even once see anyone doing any brush clearing/cutting north of the Shenandoah (and only about 3 times total in the South). I did see sections in which there was multiyear-length foliage across the trail. I saw countless collapsing/collapsed (from rotting) wooden waterbars, trail washed out on the side of hills to under 12" width, trail suffering soil creep to severe downslope slanting, deep gullies misnamed a trail through which water flowed days after the last rain, multi-mile lengths of trackless boulder fields, repeated scores of yards length of up to 2 feet of unraked leaves almost completely obscuring the trail, multiple sections of over a mile without a single blaze, stream bridges that had been washed out years ago with no replacement, major (like 2-3' diameter trees) blowdowns across the trail that appeared in a number of cases to be decades old, trail with no gravel (that it desperately needed) apparently added since graveled at the time of construction prior to my birth (I'm in my 40s) so frequent as to be routine, critical missing bog bridge boards (not just rotting, but MISSING altogether), you name it. Then, there's PA and Maine (hint: a 60' 75-degree rock face does NOT constitute a trail)...

This does not describe a trail that either was ever complete (if only for a moment) or is conceivably trending towards becoming so. I know what I saw, and TS about the too-fragile-to-live emotional state of anyone who prefers comforting lies to hard, useful truths.

[RAT]

"Dont complain, maintain" is my motto. I am proud to be part of the CMC and consider its 94 miles to be some of the best maintained on the entire trail. I hope MS has not been complaining about my section between Little Bald and Spivey Gap or I would have to lol

RAT

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Having done trail maintenance, I don't complain. Maintainers have real lives that involve real spouses, children, elderly parents, career commitments, etc.

For those who want to complain - said the female dino as she got her pointy little teeth in place - Quit your b!tching and pick up a bow saw and some trash bags. Once you've actually done trail work, you will never see undone trail work in the same way again.

[woodsy]

In 9 months on the AT, not once did I see anyone painting a blaze. Many sections had blazes all of which were obviously many years old. (I knew perfectly well before I set foot on the AT what old paint looks like.) I did not even once see anyone doing any brush clearing/cutting north of the Shenandoah (and only about 3 times total in the South). I did see sections in which there was multiyear-length foliage across the trail. I saw countless collapsing/collapsed (from rotting) wooden waterbars, trail washed out on the side of hills to under 12" width, trail suffering soil creep to severe downslope slanting, deep gullies misnamed a trail through which water flowed days after the last rain, multi-mile lengths of trackless boulder fields, repeated scores of yards length of up to 2 feet of unraked leaves almost completely obscuring the trail, multiple sections of over a mile without a single blaze, stream bridges that had been washed out years ago with no replacement, major (like 2-3' diameter trees) blowdowns across the trail that appeared in a number of cases to be decades old, trail with no gravel (that it desperately needed) apparently added since graveled at the time of construction prior to my birth (I'm in my 40s) so frequent as to be routine, critical missing bog bridge boards (not just rotting, but MISSING altogether), you name it. Then, there's PA and Maine (hint: a 60' 75-degree rock face does NOT constitute a trail)...

This does not describe a trail that either was ever complete (if only for a moment) or is conceivably trending towards becoming so. I know what I saw, and TS about the too-fragile-to-live emotional state of anyone who prefers comforting lies to hard, useful truths.

Well if that doesn't tell you something about the ungrateful whino critic, nothing he says will

[Teatime]

Hmm, I was only out on the trail once last year, for just a 4 day section hike and I saw trail maintainers working. Additionally, part of the section had been recently located and a beautiful job it was too! Did I mention the new Mountaineer Falls Shelter? I bet if trail maintenance was stopped even for 1 year, the trail would almost dissapear in some sections.

[rickb]

a 60' 75-degree rock face does NOT constitute a trail

Rock Face?

More like a bit of bouldering. Part of what makes the AT fun for so many. Nowhere along the summer trail is it at all technical.

The suggestion that ropes would be appropriate for any parts of the AT (as made in the other thread) for any healthy able-bodied individual is not at all consistant with my reality.

YMMV.

[The Old Fhart]

MS-"I know what I saw, and TS about the too-fragile-to-live emotional state of anyone who prefers comforting lies to hard, useful truths."

It appears the only comforting lies are coming from you and you are the one denying the truths. Any scientist worth their salt would be willing to accept hard evidence on a question, and a mountain of well-documented evidence on trail maintenance has been presented by many on WhiteBlaze. Also, almost everyone else has seen volunteers painting blazes, building bridges, shelters, the list goes on and on. There are also many here who have actually done trail maintenance as well. Since I first set foot on the trail I have seen countless volunteers maintaining the trail, and when I have seen them I take the time to thank them for the hard (and in your case, thankless) job they do.

I’m beginning to doubt that you ever set foot on the A.T. because what you continually describe is so out of touch with reality. But then again, maybe you’re just a troll seeking attention!

[shades of blue]

MS....I've seen ample evidence of maintainers on the trail. I saw at least 6 groups in the GA-VA and can think of 3 or 4 from WV-ME. There were several new relocated trails, including two where the ground was still fresh from being upturned and leveled out. I agree that there are quite often blowdowns, but that also may depend on what time you're out there. If you hike through an area after a recent storm, you might see the blowdown before a maintainer gets to the area. There are older sections of the trail, but I would also think that money would dictate where and how much you spend.

I am greatful to all trail maintainers and the hard work that they do. Thank-you.

[Old Hillwalker]

Looks like Bill Irwin wasn't the only blind person who has hiked the trail.

[rafe]

I've seen lots of trail maintainers on the AT. But none of the ones I saw were painting blazes. If and when I retire, I'd hope to put in some time on trail maintenance.