Well, THAT's news.
It sure seems like backcountry to me, unless I'm missing something.
There are 10 shelters, not huts, between Glencliff and Gorham in the WMNF. Obviously you've never hiked there.Originally Posted by Boston
If Mala can haul a keg in there and have a party, like he was so proud of one year, then it ain't "backcountry".
Off the top of my head, I can think of nine between Glencliff and Gorham: Jeffers Brook;Beaver Brook; Eliza Brook; Kinsman; Garfield; Guyot; Ethan Pond; Imp; and Rattle River. (I'm speaking of shelters either on or very near the A.T. And of these, two, Jeffers and Beaver Brook, are maintained by the DOC and not the AMC.
No fee is charged to stay at Rattle River, at least that was so the last time I passed by in 2003. I always considered the shelter mainly a convenience for long distance hikers who wanted to minimize their town stay.
I suppose it also serves as a convenient spot for an after work start on a Friday -- thus allowing an early Saturday start for a traverse of the lengthy Imp, Wildcat and Carter traverse.
Again, I doubt if the Rattle River Shelter's location, adds much to the crowds in the Whites.
For that matter, even if it did, I wouldn't complain. Frankly I encourage people to get out into the woods and mountains. Hiking and backpacking numbers are declining. That's not a good thing, but a bad thing.
Weary
Most of the cost comes from the composting outhouses. 15,000 visitors per yer equals 2500 to 3000 gallons of human waste which equals 40 to 50 compost runs, each taking a full day of labor. That is just mixing the ****e with bark. Once mixed each run will take 4 to 6 weeks to compost and in that time the pile may be mixed 3 to 4 times. Its not easy work. To compost all that dung takes 400 50lb bags of hardwood bark that must be flown in to the campsites. The AMC doesn't have composters just to be green and elitist, the ecology of the Whites (including thin, acid soils and short decomposition season) can't handle that much waste.Probably the Smokies, but the AMC doesn't have the financial resourses of the Gov't. They choose to ask the user to pay, not the tax payers. Any backcountry campsite that sees around 2000 visitors durning the summer would cost as much to operate. Any number of national parks could have those kind of numbers.Can anyone point to any other part of the country where shelters cost that much to operate?Volunteers are great but they don't seem to want to touch the poo-poo thats been soaked in the pee-pee. Again we come back to the disposal of human waste. There might be some vols out there who would be willing to try, I've worked with thru-hikers doing work for stay who've been eager to learn, but not enough to deal with the volume.Most shelters "operate" on volunteer labor.None of the AMCs backcountry sites fit this description. "Easy" and "Difficult" are subjective terms, but my experience suggests most hikers wouldn't think that the backcountry sites in the Whites are "easy" to get to and many are "difficult" to get to. And they all require walking. The ease of visiting the Whites is in the driving to the trailhead, we have an interstate highway up the middle of the forest (a route the AMC faught against at one time).My somewhat limited hiking experience has taught me that the 'overuse' of a site is directly proportional to it's proximity to a road or other means of access which doesn't require feet. Let me be more specific. That doesn't require human feet.I hope you make it up to the Whites too, its a beautiful place. I also hope you'll enjoy your section hike enough to return and visit other parts of the forest, there are many other trails and mountains worth exploring. If you don't want to pay for camping don't use the sites that are so busy in the summer it takes a full time caretaker to maintain the site, You can camp away from the busy sites, use the USFS sites which are funded by the WMNF budget and not by user fees or use the AMC unstaffed sites which are funded by the fees collected at the staffed sites.[/QUOTE]I haven't been to the Whites. Yet. But as a section hiker I do hope to work my way there one of these days, and yes it will annoy me in the extreme if I am required to pay for a backcountry campsite.
Rrs Usfs
The AMCs website only lists shelters maintained by the AMC. Rattle River is a USFS shelter.
Not anymore. All the AMC sites plus the USFS sites at Valley Way, Osgood and Rattle River AND the D.O.C.s Beaver Brook Shelter, have batch bin composting toilets. No human waste is flown out of the A.T. shelters in New Hampshire. The bark used in composting is flown in but this requires less than half the airlifts to fly out waste
Has this bit of misinformation been corrected? There are three sided open shelters in the Whites and there are ones that are "free" (no fees, but are they really "free"?): Jeffers Brook, Beaver Brook, Eliza Brook, Jeffers Brook and if you count the Mahoosucs (AMC maintained trail, not in the National Forest) Gentian Pond and Full Goose. The AMC does not refer to its "shelters" as "Huts" or "Huts" as "Shelters", it refers to them as "Campsites". Campsites without shelters, just tent platforms or pads, are refered to as "Tentsites". "Huts" refered to as "Hotels" (not by the AMC).
O.K., now I'm thoroughly confused. Is it possible to hike the A.T. through the Whites without paying a 'user fee'. Do I only pay if I stay in certain shelters or lodges, or must I pay an entrance fee or a daily fee or whatever the appropriate terminology is?
1. It is possible to get thru the Whites without paying any fees whatsoever; there are all sorts of good, legal, environmental-friendly places to camp for free.
2. There are a handful of sites where a nominal fee is paid, which generally
helps cover the cost of the on-site caretaker. Hikers should note that this fee system is only put in place in VERY highly used areas.
3. Those that don't wish to pay these small fees have the option of planning their hiking days/mileage in such a way that they'll have access to free campsites, and this isn't that difficult to do.
4. There is no entrance fee or permit, or any "daily" fee of any sort required
while hiking in the White Mountains.
Exactly right, Jack.
One might also keep in mind that the AMC's professional and volunteer crews maintain many hundreds of miles of trails (is that an exaggeration?) away from the AT in the Whites.
There are more than a few free 3-sided shelters along these trails which I thought they maintained as well-- but I don't know for sure.
In keeping with tradition, I do have one small quibble with your post, however. There is a fee for commercial groups passing through the Whites. NOt that everyone pays it.
Rick B
O.K., now I'm thoroughly confused. Is it possible to hike the A.T. through the Whites without paying a 'user fee'. Do I only pay if I stay in certain shelters or lodges, or must I pay an entrance fee or a daily fee or whatever the appropriate terminology is?
FWIW, I think that it is rather easy to avoid the Huts where you need to pay a good deal of money, or request for a work for stay.
It is also possible to avoid the $8 sites, except for a short stretch of trail between Gorham and Grafton Notch where the corridor is narrow, and you are required to stay at them.
As a practical matter, a few of the other $8 sites might prove to be very attractive, however. Some sections have great alternatives to the designated site nearby, whereas finding a good site in other stretches can be a bit more problematic.
I bet it would be easy with a hammock, though!
You can hike the Whites without paying
Nine of the AMCs 14 shelters and campsites: http://www.outdoors.org/lodging/camp...es-profile.cfm are staffed by caretakers from early June until Columbus Day (roughly) and an $8 user fee is collected from overnight visitors.
The AMC maintains five unstaffed sites where no fees are collected and between the Dartmouth Outing Club and the USFS there are five more shelters and developed tentsites with no fees.
The AMC operates eight Huts on the Appalachian Trail in New Hampshire: http://www.outdoors.org/lodging/huts/index.cfm Huts are four sided buildings with doors, windows, kitchens, toilets, running water and other amenities like stolen road signs, propellers (now missing) and flotation devices, . They all have different operating schedules but generally they are staffed by a crew and serve dinner and breakfast with a bunk from early June till late October. Some close early, some have short spring and fall caretaker seasons (no meals) and three are open year round with caretakers and no meals.
You can also avoid all developed overnight options and go camping out in the wilds. The USFS has some rules for backcountry camping such as no camping above treeline and no camping within a quarter mile of a developed campsite or Hut. The full list of USFS backcountry camping rules can be found at the WMNF website: http://www.outdoors.org/lodging/huts/index.cfm
There are no entrance fees for the WMNF but there is a parking fee for trailheads on National Forest land. I believe it is $3 a day or $20 for a annual pass $25 for a dual vechical annual pass. http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/forests/white_mountain/passes/
One is required to stay at fee sites between Gorham and Grafton??
That's a looong way.
If this regulation actually exists, Rick, please print it, because I was unaware of it.
Or if I mis-read your post, and this regulation only applies to PART of that stretch, please provide details and exact locations..
Thanx.
There are five sites between Gorham NH and Grafton Notch and only one, Speck! Pond has a fee. I believe only the NH section (about 16 miles), where the corridor of National Park Service land is narrow, is camping restricted. The the portion in Maine (14 miles) the trail is on wider tracts of land owned by Maine Bureau of Parks and Land and the risk of camping on private property is less.
The quote above has the correct link. The link in the original post was incorrect.
Good point Celt,
It would have been more correct for me to have said:
"It is also possible to avoid the AMC sites except for a short stretch of trail between Gorham and Grafton Notch where the corridor is narrow, and you are required to stay at them. But those sites (Trident COl and Gentian Pond) are free anyway"
If you say that its AOK to camp off trail in Weary's Grafton Notch State Park, I wouldn't argue. I am glad the AMC Caretaker AT spec doesn't walk over to Full Goose to collect the fee anymore.
Last edited by rickb; 10-24-2006 at 20:15. Reason: Because I didn't understand wht the #$%@ I just said
I'd never heard of this either. The AMC White Mountain Guide refers to the Maine section of the Mahoosucs and states camping and fires at designated sites only but no mention of the NPS corridor in the NH section was made. I looked up the Mahoosucs land on the Maine Bureau of Parks and Lands (MBPL) website and it only restricts camping and above treeline in the Maine section of the Mahoosucs: http://www.state.me.us/cgi-bin/doc/p....pl?park_id=58 I'm finding additional info on NPS lands harder to find online.
The MBPL site says that there is no camping in Grafton Notch State Park. I found the wording confusing. Is camping not allowed in GNSP? or do they mean there are no campsites in GNSP?
Are you joking about the Speck! caretaker collecting fees at Goose? If not, when where they doing this?
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote