2010 Appalachian Trail Circle Expedition

[Jack Tarlin]

I seem to remember you last did a long hike many, many years ago.

Lots of things probably seem different to you.

[Chache]

Why does each accomplishment have to be the same??
What may be an accomplishment for me.....may not be for you....OR vice versa.

Nobody's saying they have to be the same. What I am saying is that you know its the easy way to say you did the same thing and you know damn well they will say they did the same thing. There is no denying that one way is harder than the other. So don't give me that PC crap about "what may be a accomplishment for me may not be for you. What he's doing is all fine and well. This conversation started because he denies what Jack says is slack-packing.

[Jimmers]

Of course people may not mention they hiked this way because of people looking down on them or criticizing them when they do mention it. Just a thought.

Hiking this way would drive me crazy, but how other people complete their hike really isn't of much concern to me.

HYOH.

[Chache]

Of course people may not mention they hiked this way because of people looking down on them or criticizing them when they do mention it. Just a thought.

Hiking this way would drive me crazy, but how other people complete their hike really isn't of much concern to me.

HYOH.

And its not a concern for anybody else. This conversation was about denying that it was easier than carrying your pack all the way.

[warren doyle]

It's nice to read a thread where there can be differing viewpoints without resorting to disparaging name-calling.

I like it.

Keep up the good work WB administrators as you guide WB into a more gentler and kinder future.

[Chache]

Chache:

In my experience, people that hike in this fashion NEVER volunteer the information that they essentially hiked packless. Quite the contrary,they keep this information hidden and are quite uncomfortable talking about it. And there's nothing wrong with hiking with little or no weight; after all,to each their own. But people who slackpack almost the entire Trail know quite well that this is NOT what most people picture in their minds when they hear about someone hiking the entire A.T. The common perception is, of course, of a backpacker, i.e one who relies primarily on their own fortitude, strength, and resourcefulness, and not on the leisure and comfort provided by the presence of a support vehicle or group leader. People envision thru-hikers camping by streams and on mountaintops, and not cooking dinner and making camp by a roadside within safe sight and sound of a van or road. In Post #9 above, Mr. Doyle stated that most nights on his outdoors expedition, people in his group camped by road crossings. This is, of course, NOT what most people envision when they hear about someone hiking the whole A.T. Nor, of course, is it what most people want from their trips, but this, of course, is up to the individual. It's a free country.......if people wish to walk the AppalachianTrail with near-constant vehicular support; if they wish to sleep most nights next to a road; if they wish to have but two zero days off; and most of all, if they wish to spend less than 15% of their journey actually backpacking on the A.T., well this is, of course, up to them. The marvelous thing about living in a free country is the right to do
what most folks would consider foolish, and a terribly lost opportunity to discover what one is capable of achieving on one's own. But if people want to hike someone else's hike, and follow someone else's plan, itinerary, and vision, and not pursue their own, well, that's fine, too.

Ya ,What he said.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Fellows, everyone knows day hiking with a light pack is easier than hiking with a heavier multi-day pack. However, hiking 2100+ miles is an accomplishment regardless of how it is done. HYOH and let others hike theirs.

[Jack Tarlin]

Geez, where has anyone said it's NOT accomplishment, F.D.??

All people are saying is that it's a very different one from that of most thru-hikers, and that it's different from most people's perceptions of what they envision a thru-hike to be.

And how is commenting on someone else's journey not letting them hike their own hike?

Of course they can hike their own hike. As I said more than once, it's a free country.

But if people bring up alternative ways to hike the Trail, and most of all, if people initiate threads or discussions here whose sole purpose is to talk about alternative ways to hike the Trail, well this opens the matter up for discussion. And when people state or imply that these alternative methods are as meaningful and difficult ......or perhaps more meaningful and difficult....than other hikes or hikers, well you better believe this will invite a response.

Lastly, I remind you that Mr. Doyle said flatly that he felt that the trials and difficulties of those on his Expedition were "a more challenging and difficult burden to bear" and it is THIS comment that I thinks some folks dispute and wished to comment on.

And they have every right to do so. Disputing some of the comments posted above in no way,shape, or form prevents anyone from "hiking their own hike." All people are doing is commenting on the ways some folks choose to do so.

[Chache]

Fellows, everyone knows day hiking with a light pack is easier than hiking with a heavier multi-day pack. However, hiking 2100+ miles is an accomplishment regardless of how it is done. HYOH and let others hike theirs.

There is no disagreement with everyone hiking which ever way they chose. Your the first to finally address the original premise of this conversation( that not carrying your pack 85% of the time was not easier).

[Slimer]

Chache,
My question to you was not "politically correct"...although you seem to want it to be.
I'll give you the last word.......you're gonna need it.

[Chache]

I will now shut up on this subject and wish Warren a successful and happy trip.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

We are not carrying the physical burden of a full backpack by any means; however, we are carrying the emotional burden that comes with a trusting commitment to the other expedition members that we either all get 'there' or none of of us do. I feel the latter burden is a more challenging and difficult burden to bear; and therefore, a more satisfying accomplishment.

WD has acknowledged that the hike he leads is different from the traditional AT thru-hike. He appears to see it as a group bond experience done at a challenging pace with very few zero days - WD sees the emotional aspects of doing that as more difficult than carrying a multiday pack while walking fewer miles whenever one feels like it, taking zero days as needed and not having to be bothered with the needs of the group.

To me, comparing these two experiences is like comparing having your house burn down to having your career go down the tubes. Both would be difficult and I wouldn't even try to say which is more difficult. I would think it would depend on the individual.

[rickb]

This conversation was about denying that it was easier than carrying your pack all the way.

When you carry your pack, you get to go at your own pace. You can stay in town and eat-- or go on a bender. You can visit you SO for a few days or weeks. Or skip a section that "realy doesn't matter". You can watch TV and movies and such. You can ditch those whose company bugs you, and seek the company of like minded souls.

Seems easier to me.

But who knows. Pehaps its just different.

One thing we can probably all agree on is that leading a group of strangers on a relatively fast schedule in such a way that most (and many times all) end up doing what elludes 80% of those who start will fail to do-- ie. walk from Springer to Katahdin-- is an achievement in leadership that stands in its own catagory.

Is hard to fathom, really. Not that some people on these trips make it all the way, but rather that so many do.

[shelterbuilder]

We are not carrying the physical burden of a full backpack by any means; however, we are carrying the emotional burden that comes with a trusting commitment to the other expedition members that we either all get 'there' or none of of us do. I feel the latter burden is a more challenging and difficult burden to bear; and therefore, a more satisfying accomplishment...All of these journey endings were joyfuly satisfying, but none so substantive and vibrant than the six unbroken circles.
The expedition is not for everyone, but some have and will choose this way of walking and experiencing the trail.

Like Shades of Gray, I, too, had the opportunity to meet some of the members of one of the UCONN Expeditions (I believe it was 1980) at the old Earl Shaffer shelter in Pa. Every single member of that group was dedicated to the concept of "their thru-hike", which, at the time, was a concept of thru-hiking of which I had never heard. But, given the explanations that day, I could understand why, even if it was not MY concept of a thru-hike, it was a valid concept nonetheless. I would describe the attitude, not as "cultish", but highly disicplined. The members of the group have committed not only to the hike, but also to each other. "May the circle be unbroken" is very much akin to "No man left behind". That's a burden willingly assumed, and it can be just as heavy emotionally as a full pack can be physically. HYOH.

[minnesotasmith]

Baltimore Jack said:

"In my experience, people that hike in this fashion [slackpacking, as Warren's groups do almost the whole way] NEVER volunteer the information that they essentially hiked packless. Quite the contrary,they keep this information hidden and are quite uncomfortable talking about it."

I was open about and volunteered on the infamous "MinnesotaSmith Update" thread (over 220,000 hits, BTW) in detail about my slackpacking as I did my thruhike last year. I did several days of it around Miss Janet's, at least one at Kincora, most of a day near Waynesboro, my first day in the Whites (Mt Mooseliauke), over half of Maine (much of it was done as 1- and 2- night "lightpacking", as I call it), much of Vermont, and several days at least in Mass.

But, then, I'm an honest person.

[warren doyle]

I enjoyed the recent three posts (FD; rickb;shelterbuilder). They were thoughtful, insightful and reasonable.

There have been seven circle expeditions (1975, 1977, 1980 - were mostly college students with a sprinkling of high school students and workers in their 20's; 1990, 1995, 2000, 2005 - were people of all ages ranging from 18 y.o to 68 y.o.). Only one of the seven groups had a broken circle, meaning six had a 100% completion rate of those who made the commitment.

If a group day-hike up the entire Appalachian Trail in a continuous stretch is 'easy', why then haven't there been other groups to have achieved it with such a high completion rate? I can count on two hands the number of other group hike attempts. Most of these 'imploded' along the way.

[ferryman]

I have to agree with Lone Wolf on this one! (is this really happening?) I hiked with OD Coyote and Skocumchuck, starting at Joe's Hole lean-to at East Moxie, all the way to the summit of Katahdin in 1980. His version of a slower, more exploratory hike with full pack, is a far cry from the modern day slackpacking phenomenon. We had the opportunity to hike, camp and survive the November weather in Maine at anytime and anywhere along the Appalachian Trail. When we arrived to Baxter, some Millinocket friends watched his dog while we summitted Katahdin on November 17. You can fool some of the people all of the time but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time. It has been my privilege to ferry some of your circle expediton members across the Kennebec River in Caratunk. Steve the ferryman

[Pedalsndirt]

Um,

What was this thread about again? =]

Dazed and Confused...

[dixicritter]

This thread is about one of Warren Doyle's upcoming Circle Expedition Hikes.

[Pedalsndirt]

Wow,

Ok I see what's up here, I think.

Thanks for the warning. Us newbs (myself particularly) were getting very confused.

Back to my research. LOL :P