Dogs on the trail (how do you really feel?)

[shades of blue]

This is my first post so be nice! I read recently a fairly negative post about dogs on the trail on this site. This summer, I hiked from Davenport Gap to Fox Creek, VA with my Golden Retriever. She is well behaved, doesn't bark (believe it or not) and obeys me when I tell her to leave others alone. I plan to do a lot more miles this coming spring break and summer. Here is my question....Are most people anti-dog on the trail or is it just a few....does this incompass all dog owners...or just ones who can not control their dog? I am not looking for a fight, I am wanting honest opinions. I have really enjoyed hiking the AT, and it's been great for my dog. Ok.....let me know what you think. One more thing, the person whose post I read didn't seem to hate dogs...just thought it was a horrible idea for them to be on the trail.

[Jack Tarlin]

There are hardly any "anti-dog" folks on the Trail, tho there are plenty of folks who, with reason, have a problem with inconsiderate dog owners.

Provided you are an attentive owner; provided your dog is well-trained and obedient; provided you and your dog have trail experience, including experience hiking/camping with other folks; provided you obey ALL rules and regulations re. use of leashes, etc; provided you are dedicated to your dog's health, safety, and happiness; provided you are especially considerate at campsites, shelters, and hostels, as regards other people and your dog; provided you keep your dog from leaving messes, barking indiscriminately, begging food, bringing vermin into shelters, chasing wildlife, etc-----well, provided you're willing to do ALL of this, you and you dog shouldn't have any problems.

The problem, however, is that in my experience, which is not inconsiderable, upwards of three-quarters of the dog owners on the Trail DO NOT consider the above when they decide they simply must bring their pet along on a thru-hike. Plain and simply, MOST of the dogs on the Trail don't belong there, and there are very few owners of Trail dogs who are truly considerate regarding courtesy twards others as well as proper care of their pet. For most dog owners on the Trail, their "right" to enjoy the company of their pet wherever they go supercedes the rights of others on the Trail who may not wish to have their time on the Trail negatively affected by a dog---and this is dead wrong. The vast majority of dog owners, at one time or another, (and in many cases, all the time!) simply do not spend enough time or energy considering how their dog's presence and behavior can potentially impact others. Unfortunately, there is so much of this behavior that it affects ALL dogs and their owners, even the ones who are caring, responsible, and considerate.

To repeat, there aren't a lot of folks who hate dogs out there; the problem is with all too many of the dog OWNERS; but all of these problems are avoidable if you're aware of the potential problems, and take measures to ensure that thisdoesn't happen with you and your dog.

By the way.....I predict this will be a VERY lively thread; I hope we manage to keep the conversation civil, moderate, and useful.

[Blue Jay]

To people who have been bitten by "friendly" dogs, you are a terrorist. You don't really give a rat's ass what anyone thinks, so bring the dog.

[Jack Tarlin]

Blue Jay--

Please re-read the last paragraph of my post; this guy asked a sincere question, and I think he deserves a fairer response than the one you gave him......there's no secret that I'm not a fan of dogs on the A.T. either, but I think we're all capable of discussing this in a more positive manner.

[JimSproul]

I too hike with my dog, Murffy, on many traniing hikes. I always keep him in a harness and on a leash for his protection as well as others. He is a 55 pound mutt but well behaved. I keep him away from water sources and clean-up after him, even in the woods.

Even with all that said, I have mixed feelings about dogs in the backcountry. Much like teenagers, if not well managed they can cause a real problem in a hurry. I have had problems with other people's dogs (and some two legged kids) when they just let them loose to do as they please. I understand them being banded from some areas, like the Smokies.

By the way, my wife gives me a hard time about going out in bad weather. I never take the dog on days over 100 or in stormy conditions. I hear "Why are you going if it is too nasty for him?" How can you answer that?

[shades of blue]

Jack...thanks for the input. As for doing ALL of the things you mentioned....I do, at least I attempt to do all of them and feel I am successful. I am concerned about others on the trail (I am a very polite person). I know not all people feel comfortable around dogs...and I have been accosted by other dogs on the trail myself. I also realize that having a dog on the trail makes it more difficult for me on days I go through town. There are definate drawbacks. However, she has been a great companion, and I take very good care of her both on and off the trail. As for Blue Jay's Post......I truly doubt I should have a trail name of Osama ben shadesofblue. The main idea of my thread is to figure out what is best, not "do what I want to do anyway".

[ronk]

Dogs on the trail are natural. They are bred from it (wolves). All things can be mishandled and abused.

The person with a "bad" dog or even" bad" kids, which is worse "on the trail" is probably not a conscientious or conservation minded "hiker"

Dogs are fine, Kids are fine bad handlers or parents a much more serious issue!!!

Mine (dog) doesn't hike ...cause he is a knot-head... I love him but he would view the trail as a place where he needed to be everywhere...all the time... and greeting everyone... and then I'd proabably end up throwing him over my shoulder and carrying him home... got him from a pound and he hasn't gotten over being "sprung from the hoose-gow"

[prozac]

I would be interested in seeing a poll on this topic. I personally am quite happy to run into a well-trained , well-behaved dog on the trail but this seems to be the exception rather than the rule. Generally it seems to me the more trail mileage on a dog the better behaved. In my experience, most bad interactions with Fido has been with day or weekend hiker owners who don't seem to realize what a nuisance their pet can be can be to others. The flip side is most dogs are not up to the challenge of a thru due to the physical nature of the trail. I'd be willing to bet the drop out rate for canines is much higher than it is for people. That being said, like anything else there are exceptions.

[The Weasel]

Balto Jack is very, very right. There are almost no 'dog haters' on the trail. But there are a number - I'm one, and I think he is too - who, as he puts it, don't like inconsiderate owners much. He covers those points fully and correctly.

But there are also a lot of dog LOVERS too - I'm one of them, also - who are vehemently opposed to dogs on the trail BECAUSE we love them.

When you take a dog on the trail, you're making decisions for him/her that can be risky, at best, if not thought through. We think of dogs as able to do anything, but they are, physically, similar to us, with a few drawbacks, as well. They may be fat and out of physical condition to handle serious mileages; they need far greater food levels than in normal times, especially over the long periods of high-calorie output of a thru-hike; they are putting a huge amount of pounding on feet (unprotected) and the muscular-skeletal system which, particularly for larger dogs, can lead to hip degeneration (my old lab was put to sleep due to that). Even more serious, dogs lack the human body-cooling system that comes from our perspiration; their only means of cooling is panting and drinking cool water. A "stretch" for me to "go dry" for the last 5-6 miles of a day and just be a little freaky (but not at body-temp risk) can be a serious problem for an overheated dog. Water stops frequently are a pain in the butt for me, but a necessity for a dog. Not stopping is either cruel, risky, or both. Keep in mind that when you're sitting around the table at a shelter happily whining about tired muscles, Poochie is wagging her tail because she loves you, but in just as great pain, and perhaps more...and unable to tell you.

Beyond the physical aspects, there are some very hard canine/human emotional aspects. Dogs that are perfectly trained ("He comes when called and obeys ALL the time") at home, or in even familiar types of surroundings are going to go into ecstatic sensory overload on the Trail. Unfamiliar - and fascinating - scents can take even the best trained dog off on a delightful run even while you're calling her "Come, Poochie!". That run down the hollow, through the woods, chasing that boar or coyote scent, leads that dog past your voice into total wilderness, where she may never find her way back to a 24" pathway. Gone. Forever. I'm not being dramatic. In 2000, I found no fewer than 4 dog owners (1 thruhiker, others day/section hikers) with dogs that had run off and disappeared. How horribly heartbreaking, to know that your dog is in a wilderness from which she may never emerge, and in which she is incapable of surviving.

The altnerative is, of course, leashing. Let's leave aside the occasional discomfort of holding a leash the whole time, or being jerked every now and then, even by the best trail dog. You're going to keep your dog tied to a 15-20' leash for 7 months? For 2000 miles? That's kind? I'm sorry. Not.

9 months ago, Chase The Incredible Rocket Dog jumped in my car after being dumped by a local interstate. He's mostly a lab, almost 2 years old now - and still with a lot of fun puppy in him - and the smartest, most cooperative dog I've had in a long time. He is excellent on a leash, so when I walked the Manistee River Trail 2 weeks ago, I decided to see what it was like on a short trip with a dog. It confirmed all of Jack's comments, and all of mine.

I tried totally to be "considerate" in every way. But I couldn't totally stop Chase from barking or growling one night at another dog in the camp area (and the other barked too) as they did the territory thingy, and I missed burying a few of his voidings. I couldn't prevent him once from urinating in the river - that was a fun, and cooling moment, and he didn't see any "No Dog Pee Allowed Here" signs. He was polite and didn't jump on others on the trail, but others always were a bit hesitant at first, and I had to often stop to let them pass out of short-leash distance from him. He tired faster than I did - it's just as many miles for a lot smaller body - so I took more breaks. He got very hot, and I ran out of water (I had 2 qts for each of us). He was wonderful on the leash...but he was, for all that, captive for 48 hours, unable to romp or run free. He's my pal, and I didn't want to risk losing him, to have him feel abandoned again.

I'm sorry. You can't be considerate enough to bring your dog, and if you truly love him or her, you won't even think about it. To those who say, "I can't be apart from my dog that long," I sympathize, but you should realize you're much like so many others of us who had to weigh our separation from loved ones - human, canine or otherwise - and our desire for the trail. You can't always have both.

Leave your dog home. For his or her sake.

The Weasel


PS: I just noted prozac's (I think) mention that, "Dogs on the trail are naturals...they are descended from wolves." Well, I'm sorry. Even that's not appropriate. Dogs are no more "natural" on a trail as wolf descendants than humans are "naturals" as descendants (leave the evolution fight alone folks, and allow me my own delusions) of "Lucy" and the rest of her australopithecus kin. That was then - a few hundred thousand or a couple millions years ago - and this is now, albeit only about 30,000 years for dogs. This is a major reason why one sees very few dachshunds start on the trail, and even fewer Taco Dogs.

[mongo]

Peronally I loved having Dogs on the trail. It made my day to meet and pat them, however the only problem I have is thagt it is so hard on the dogs....especially in the heat.

[Lone Wolf]

Too many negatives that outweigh the positives of thru-hiking with a dog. Leave the pup with relatives and do YOUR thing. It ain't fair to put an animal through daily grind of hiking mile after mile.

[Peaks]

Jack: Right on.

I just wish dog owners would clean up the doggie dodo.

[shades of blue]

One of the biggest reasons I asked this question was because of the longer trips I plan to take next year. This past summer were at the most 5 to 6 day hikes because I have a Sunday job. I teach so I'm off of school during the summer. I plan to to do the same for June, but will do an extended month long hike during July. I have been concerned about how she would hold up over the month, and about how others would interact with her. The posts about her being safe for an extended amount of time has given me something to think about.

[Skeemer]

if you really love him or her you won't think of it

Well I can't add much more than Baltimore Jack and Weasel but have to take exception to the above quote. I hiked briefly with a guy called 2X4 (2 legs and 4 legs...get it) We tented next to each other on the night before we went into Harpers Ferry. I'm telling you he took better care of that dog than my Mother did me! He brushed its teeth every night, had its own rain coat, walked it at a slow pace on a leash, carried its food, etc. The dog seemed genuinely happy and was well behaved. This guy also went out of his way to stealth tent so as not to offend anyone else. If you have to bring a dog this was the way to do it.

Two other guys rescued a husky pup on the Trail and took it all the way to Katahdin (I believe) We passed each other on and off and they seemed take plenty of scheduled rest stops. Their dog also seemed to enjoy it.

Of course this was an unusually "cool and wet" year on the AT...They might not have fared as well last year.

I also realize these were probably the exceptions. I too am a dog lover but have to agree with Weasel... in most cases it's not fair to the dog.

[Footslogger]

For starters ...I like dogs. I like pretty much all animals for that matter. I agree with the comments already made about dog behavior. But here is what I honestly think about dogs on the trail.

Dogs aren't built for 15 - 20 mile days, one right after another for 6 months ...period, paragraph end of topic. If we could ask a dog about it's preference as to hiking or sleeping I doubt they would choose hiking. Plain and simple, a dog is on the trail as a preference of the owner.

Having said the above, I will admit that I did see what appeared to be some pretty neat dogs on the AT this year. I also saw some malnourished and totally exhausted dogs on the trail and that made me pretty sad.

Would I ever take my dog on the trail ?? YEP, but not on a thru-hike. I can't imagine anything more fun than to have my dog along on a weekend or week long trip, where the daily mileage and terrain allowed for a relatively easy pace.

[The Weasel]

Skeemer - Thanks for agreeing mostly. It's nice not to feel totally out-to-lunch now and then.

My comment about "If you love your dog, dont" is based on the reality that no matter how much you take care of your dog, the risk of injury and especially of losing him/her is too great. I will never forget the look on the face of that guy at Wayah Bald who lost his pup there and kept going up and down the trail for 2 weeks with his sad little posters. Poor bastard just started crying when he tried to tell me about it. I felt worse for the dog. It probably died feeling abandoned, starved or frozen if it made it through the summer.

The Weasel

[steve hiker]

Keep dogs on a leash when on the trail; better yet, don't allow dogs on any trail. There's sort of a regression that takes place w/ dog and owner when in the wild. My last encounter was hiking to a hotspring when a couple allowed their dog to intimidate me at a trail junction just to prove a point. These jerks were also camping "next" to the hotspring.

I got my revenge by hiking out the next day, opening their car, taking a dump on the drivers seat and pissing on the passenger seat. I wanted to make their experience as nice as mine. I actually have a friend who shot and killed two charging dobermans at a state park. The owners were pissed but had no recourse; he only got a $50 fine for shooting a gun at the park.

[Rain Man]

Originally posted by mongo
Peronally I loved having Dogs on the trail. It made my day to meet and pat them, ...

Anybody know what happens when a dog rumps through the poison ivy, then rubs against and gets petted by a human?

I'm just wondering if the poison ivy "oil" gets onto the dog's coat, then transferred to human skin? I have no idea.

Rain Man

[Hikerhead]

I'm at a loss for words.....

OK, back to dogs. I love dogs. Sometimes the owners don't use common sense and that's where the problem lies.

The locals between Glencliff and Hanover had the best well behaved dogs. One lady had this huge Great Dame that came behind me, I thought it was a deer. A trail maintainer had a chocolate chesapeake retreiver that I played with.

Bottom line, if you have a dog, show some courtesy, use common sense, and take it into the woods when the time comes.

And lets all guess who's picture the Pope has one his wall.

[jlb2012]

Rain Man - yes it is possible to get the poison ivy oil on you second hand from a dog that you pet or that rubs up against you.