Cost of Thru Hike

[Just a Hiker]

The good news is it still costs $1 per mile to hike the trail

The bad news is the trail is now 4,500 miles long.

Thats funny!!

I was having dinner with a thru-hiker who had just finished the trail in Monson this past weekend, and because I am curious about what people spend, I asked this particular hiker what he spent. He looked me dead in the eye and said......."Ten Thousand Dollars"!!

Just Jim

[Appalachian Tater]

I'm also thinking more experienced hikers may spend less on a thru-hike, especially at the beginning. At some point you go from the , "Oh, thank god here's town with restaurants and a hot shower" mindset to "Oh, no, I'm almost out of food, I guess I have to go into town and resupply. It's a mental switch from being part of civilization but venturing out into the woods to being on the trail and venturing into civilization.

Okay, so I'm exaggerating a little, but you get the picture.

[Jack Tarlin]

Weasel:

Your post crossed with mine.

In brief:

*I think $200.00 for your gear fund is pretty low. Most folks will spend
45-75 dollars just replacing their socks!

*I think $2.00 a day on food is also really low. Unless you wanna live on a
handful of pasta, one ounce of cheese, a pop tart, and one candy bar,
you'llbe spending a lot more on food, whether you buy it ahead of time or
once you're out there. Hell a damn orange will cost you a buck in some
places. Food simply costs a lot more than it once did.

*Buying food in bulk ahead of time is fine, tho there's the very real chance
you'll get sick of most of your food long before the trip is done. And more
food maildrops of course means more postal expenses. Considering how
often hikers mis-judge their food needs (they usually have too much food
in their drops and either give a lot away or end up mailing some of it more
than once) for many hikers, buying in bulk or preparing all their meals ahead
of time does not really save all that much money.

*With every passing year, it seems that fewer places offer a "work
for stay" option, mainly because so many hikers don't do the promised work,
or do it poorly. You really can't count on getting too many of these.

*It is VERY difficult to spend less than $20.00 on a zero day, unless you
aren't paying for lodging or are willing to forego a lot of restaurant meals.

But good luck. And if you haven't already, check out Weathercarrot's excellent piece in the "Articles" section which deals with hiking on a tight budget. Lots of good ideas there.

[Lone Wolf]

All the planning and budgeting, like itineraries, usually go out the window after the first week on the AT

[Jack Tarlin]

Wolf's comment is pithy.

And in many cases, he's dead right.

[Appalachian Tater]

I agree. Just have as much time and money available as possible and go to Amicalola or Baxter and start walking. Likely you will never experience as much freedom as you will on a thru-hike. Don't spoil it with unnecessary budgets and schedules unless you have to.

[Jack Tarlin]

Whoa. Acknowledging that one might not end up sticking with one's original budget or schedule is one thing.

To say one doesn't need one at all is something else.

One's expected budget is a vital part of one's planning. For some lucky folks, the ammount of money one ends up spending on a long hike isn't a problem or consideration. For other folks, especially younger ones, it is of crucial importance, especially when lack of budgeting or planning forces one to drastically alter one's trip, or even suspend it.

Gotta disagree with my friend Tater....having an idea of what you can realistically spend does not interfere with your freedom. On the contrary, having a good idea about this, in many cases, is what allows people the freedom to complete their trip and not prematurely end it.

[The Weasel]

Weasel:

Your post crossed with mine.

In brief:

Jack, you're entirely correct in general, but not necessarily right in particularl. If 'the Devil is in the details,' I think its possible to whup the Devil by being detailed. I'll comment part-by-part:

I think $200.00 for your gear fund is pretty low. Most folks will spend 45-75 dollars just replacing their socks!

Yes, but from having gone through this, I think I can buy socks for less. Actually, due to real care, I didn't wear out either my liners or my thorlos in 500 miles. That's rare, I know, but careful care makes a difference. And since my gear is at a minimum, there's not as much to go wrong or need repair/replacement. Example: Not much can mess up an alcohol stove, but my gas stove is a perpetual repair-in-waiting. Tent zippers go bad, but a tarp is hard to destroy. Usw.

I think $2.00 a day on food is also really low. Unless you wanna live on a handful of pasta, one ounce of cheese, a pop tart, and one candy bar, you'llbe spending a lot more on food, whether you buy it ahead of time or once you're out there. Hell a damn orange will cost you a buck in some places. Food simply costs a lot more than it once did.

While many food prices are up, drying my own has saved me a huge amount and been very useful. I've got a variety of vegetables I can do, as well as fruits. Soy "meat" dries easily and is cheap. For main course dinners, I vary different kinds of pasta, rice, yellow grits, couscous and mashed potatoes. With about 160 dinners, that gives me real variety. I don't use cheese (at least 'fresh') but a lot of milk powder to make sauces. Candy bars/pop tarts get replaced by my own meal bars, which cost about 25 cents each to make. Interestingly, the easiest fruit and veg to dry is canned, from Costco. Breakfasts are my typical oatmeal with dried fruit. I almost always drink water only.

*Buying food in bulk ahead of time is fine, tho there's the very real chance you'll get sick of most of your food long before the trip is done. And more food maildrops of course means more postal expenses. Considering how often hikers mis-judge their food needs (they usually have too much food in their drops and either give a lot away or end up mailing some of it more than once) for many hikers, buying in bulk or preparing all their meals ahead of time does not really save all that much money.

Yes, but as to variety, see above. As for too much/little, leaving aside what I call "trapped days" in shelters, I'm pretty good at estimating my miles per day and drop planning. If I bus (as expected) to Springer, I'll probably carry the first 100 days of food with me to handoff to my son (he's fairly close to the trail) to mail to me, saving postage costrs.

One hint: If one determines one's caloric intake need, that makes estimating food needs for mail drops a lot easier. I use 3,500 calories as my number (I carry the deficit in my 'front pack') and plan my drops accordingly, for a 10-12 day basis. Since my food weight is about 1.25#/day, that's doable (I'm down to a total of 11# FSO not counting water). Further hint: Fats/oils are twice as calorie dense per gram (9 cal/gram vs. 4 cal/gram for protein and carbs). So I cut weight and cost by carrying a few oz. of olive oil, which is cheap to add to pasta/rice/grits.

*With every passing year, it seems that fewer places offer a "workfor stay" option, mainly because so many hikers don't do the promised work, or do it poorly. You really can't count on getting too many of these.

Quite right, too. But most small towns have the need for occasional day labor, on a cash basis. Believe it or not, I don't find manual labor beneath me, and to keep the cost down as I travel it's rather a point of pride to stay 'on budget' and not whip out the ol' VISA card. In 2000 I knocked on a few business doors to ask if they needed some help for a day or two, and was hired 3 times. Landscaping services seem to be the best for this.

*It is VERY difficult to spend less than $20.00 on a zero day, unless you aren't paying for lodging or are willing to forego a lot of restaurant meals.

This is actually pretty easy, Jack. First, despite the myth, AYCE isn't cost-effective, and almost no restaurant meal makes sense (other than Elmer's). So it's the same cost for me there. As for motels, I plan to avoid them in favor of bunkhouse hostels and by (honest) room sharing, which can cut the cost of motels dramatically. ("Hello. We'd like a room for four, please.") But my number of 'zero' days is going to be much lower this time, and only when it's essential.

But good luck. And if you haven't already, check out Weathercarrot's excellent piece in the "Articles" section which deals with hiking on a tight budget. Lots of good ideas there.

Yes, I'm aware of it.

Jack, think of this as if you were reading Ray Jardine for the second time. The first time most people read it, they say, "This guy is nuts. You can't do LD backpacking with that little!" Then they take the overload pack and think a bit, and tinker, and drop their weight. Then they read it the second time and say, "I don't agree with everything, but this is an interesting way to think about it." Pretty soon, they're cutting the labels off their underwear.

I'm picking up a different vibe out here, largely due to the PCT approach: There aren't as many trail towns, not as many distractions, and more of a "let's hike this path" approach than the AT, which is increasingly becoming, "Are there enough blazes? When do we come to a town? Where is the best burger? Who is the outfitter? Think I'll have a beer, or three!" This is a different focus, and I don't think anyone will disagree that towns are where the costs mount up. Maybe it would be useful for there to be less 'town cost', but for everyone, it's still HYOH. Still, I don't want to carry a heavy pack again, and next time, I hope to go faster, lighter, cheaper. And enjoy it even more.

I think that's possible.

The Weasel

[SGT Rock]

I am sure you have done the math, but I am not certain I could get from Baxter to say, Atlanta, on $190.

Pretty friggy getting anywhere from here. Time, food, etc.

Check here: http://www.greyhound.com/scripts/en/...nter/Step4.asp

I can get from Bangor to Knoxville for about $131. Add some cash for getting to Bangor and a little for three meals and I figure $190 is doable.

From Maryville to Springer (and back for the family) will take about 8 gallons of gas - so I did underestimate the cost for that by about $10.

[Jack Tarlin]

Hey, I never said you COULDN'T do it, Weasel, I just said it was gonna be difficult.

*In terms of expense, while there's a flat rate deal going with Priority Mail, even a smallish box is gona cost you at least eight bucks. Assuming you put a week or so's worth of food in there, this means you'll be spending around $1.15 of your 2 bucks JUST ON POSTAGE. Sure doesn't leave much for your food! And never mind the occasional ice cream cone or treat. A bottle of soda pop costs at least $1.29 in this town, and if you want something healthier, it's even more. Two bucks a day doesn't go very far when an ice cream cone costs three bucks!

And even if you can get resupplied in person and save on postage, well there are some things you'll HAVE to buy en route, i.e. you can't live on dried or dehydrated stuff for 25 weeks. Two dollars a day doesn't get you very far in a market, especially some of the smaller Trailside ones, where everything costs more.

*As far as AYCE's not going very far, I think it depends on where you go. If
you go at lunch instead of diner, it frequently means you don't need to
worry much about dinner, which saves the cost of another meal right there.
And if you pick and choose your meals wisely, AYCE can be great. For
example, Everything But Anchovies in Hanover has a $5.99 all you can eat
special on Monday night. It includes unlimited pizza and a really fine salad
bar. With tax and tip, if you stick to water and don't have desert, this
comes to less than $8.50 and it'd be very difficult to eat this much food,
including healthy food, for anywhere else in Hanover for that much money.
In short, hitting the right AYCE can be a bargain.

*Dunno how many "bunkhouse hostels" you've stayed at, but most of them
are at least fifteen dollars and many are more. Doesn't leave much else for
your planned $20.00 day off, especially if laundry isn't included. Most folks
want more than three extra dollars to spend on a zero day; if you manage
to pull this off, well good luck to you.

*Splitting motel rooms 3 or 4 ways will save you money, but in a lot of places
even that won't do. If the cheapest room available in a place like Kent or
Hanover is 89 bucks, well even going 4 ways kinda kills your budget. And
have you ever stayed in a room with 4 or 5 hikers in it Weasel? I assure
you, you won't wanna do this often. Most older hikers will want to stay by
themselves or with one other friend; most of the ones who wanna split 4 or
5 ways tend to be around 22, stay up all night, listen to a lot of lousy music
on cable TV, drink a lot of beer, and are pretty piggy when it comes to
their rooms. I don't really think this is your scene.

Anyway, you have some good ideas, but unles you want a REALLY spartan experience, I'd bump up the budget a bit, but that's just me.

[Appalachian Tater]

Hey, The Weasel, carry a little less food at first and use up some of that gut. If you can lose as much as your pack weighs (I did), it's like you're not even carrying a pack. Sortof.

Betcha by the time you get to Hiawassee, you'll find AYCE quite cost effective, indeed. By the time you get through the areas with the AYCE places and up into Yankee land, then you'll wish you could find one. You'll dream about them. At that point, you'll screw the dried corn and the dehydrated soy this and that. You're going to want a bacon double cheeseburger with mayo on the fries and a chocolate shake and a salad with blue cheese dressing and a couple of pitchers of soda. For breakfast.

[The Weasel]

Rock:

To understand your budget, a few questions:

(1) What cost is associated with "days out"?
(2) You show 41 days out of 182 in hostels/motels. That's about 1 out of every 4.5 days, which seems a lot. What is the theory there?
(3) 29 "resupplies" means about 1 every 6 days, at $55. Is that just food/fuel? How did you compute it?

Thanks!

The Weasel

[The Weasel]

Hey, I never said you COULDN'T do it, Weasel, I just said it was gonna be difficult.

I know you didn't, Jack. And I know it's going to be interesting. But I was a little nervous the first time I went total gonzo "Ray Jardine" light, too. Yes, it's a spartan gear experience going that way, too. The "backpacking light" approach to life is a new one to many, and "backpacking cheap" is equally challenging. I want to test most of it before I commit, but I'm finding most of it seems to work.

*In terms of expense, while there's a flat rate deal going with Priority Mail, even a smallish box is gona cost you at least eight bucks. Assuming you put a week or so's worth of food in there, this means you'll be spending around $1.15 of your 2 bucks JUST ON POSTAGE. Sure doesn't leave much for your food! And never mind the occasional ice cream cone or treat. A bottle of soda pop costs at least $1.29 in this town, and if you want something healthier, it's even more. Two bucks a day doesn't go very far when an ice cream cone costs three bucks!

Jack, I use parcel post which is usually $2-3 a mailing cheaper. I can mail 12# for around $8. It's still a hit, but that's 80 cents a day (12#=10 days food), which adds up. Since my food cost comes in under $1 a day based on what I buy in bulk (mostly pasta/rice/grits and veggies/fruit to dry), I think I'm pretty close.

No, there isn't a lot of money for ice cream cones, but that's part of the tradeoff. I can live without them; others prefer them. HYOH.

And even if you can get resupplied in person and save on postage, well there are some things you'll HAVE to buy en route, i.e. you can't live on dried or dehydrated stuff for 25 weeks. Two dollars a day doesn't get you very far in a market, especially some of the smaller Trailside ones, where everything costs more.

Well, I think it's possible, and I intend to see, if one can live on good dried/dehydrated stuff. The quality and variety will be a bit higher, since I'm going to do most of the drying, I don't see a lot of difference between "fresh" and reconstituted. Yes, it will be, as I say, interesting. But my diet for this won't be much different than last time, but without the town food.

*As far as AYCE's not going very far, I think it depends on where you go. If you go at lunch instead of diner, it frequently means you don't need to worry much about dinner, which saves the cost of another meal right there. And if you pick and choose your meals wisely, AYCE can be great. For example, Everything But Anchovies in Hanover has a $5.99 all you can eat special on Monday night. It includes unlimited pizza and a really fine salad bar. With tax and tip, if you stick to water and don't have desert, this comes to less than $8.50 and it'd be very difficult to eat this much food, including healthy food, for anywhere else in Hanover for that much money. In short, hitting the right AYCE can be a bargain.

Jack, AYCE is often a bargain IF you're eating town food. No argument there. But a lot of people think, "If I eat a huge AYCE, I don't need as much food on the trail tomorrow or the next day." Since, nutritionally, most unneeded food is eliminated as body waste the same/next day, that's not really the case. The trick (for me) is to not be in towns as much.

[quote=Jack Tarlin;408645]*Dunno how many "bunkhouse hostels" you've stayed at, but most of them are at least fifteen dollars and many are more. Doesn't leave much else for your planned $20.00 day off, especially if laundry isn't included. Most folks want more than three extra dollars to spend on a zero day; if you manage to pull this off, well good luck to you.

For the limited number of times I'll zero, they're there, and that is part of determining if I'll zero. That's part of planning. Just like you plan carefully what gear you're taking for a long walk, and consider all aspects of weather, route, and so on, planning where to stay makes sense too.

*Splitting motel rooms 3 or 4 ways will save you money, but in a lot of places even that won't do. If the cheapest room available in a place like Kent or Hanover is 89 bucks, well even going 4 ways kinda kills your budget. And have you ever stayed in a room with 4 or 5 hikers in it Weasel? I assure you, you won't wanna do this often. Most older hikers will want to stay by themselves or with one other friend; most of the ones who wanna split 4 or 5 ways tend to be around 22, stay up all night, listen to a lot of lousy music on cable TV, drink a lot of beer, and are pretty piggy when it comes to their rooms. I don't really think this is your scene.

Well, as for Hanover, you once offered a night at your place, and you've made it clear you don't like party-hearty types, which I'm not, so that's covered. If the offer isn't there anymore, I'll hitch down to White River Jct, where rooms are going for under $60 a night, and invite those with me to join me. All crazy partiers? No friends? Guess I don't stay in Hanover. I'll say "hi" on the way past. Other towns are the same. I'm not going to do this to see a lot of motels. As for laundry, my pants, shirt, undies, socks and other items wash in sinks or pails. That's what's good about microfibers.

Anyway, you have some good ideas, but unles you want a REALLY spartan experience, I'd bump up the budget a bit, but that's just me.

Yes, I do want a really spartan experience (those who know I am from Michigan will notice that I didn't capitalize "spartan." I'm a weasel, related to a wolverine). Others may not, and that's very cool. But I'm going to approach this version as a backpacking journey. I think it may be possible to drop my costs even more. That's why I'm trying to be precise as I test things.

And yes, you'd bump the budget up, and I can understand that. You might bring gear, too, that I don't carry. Great. That's what makes people different. But I think it's possible to stay under a buck a mile.

Hey, The Weasel, carry a little less food at first and use up some of that gut. If you can lose as much as your pack weighs (I did), it's like you're not even carrying a pack. Sortof.

If you go back and read my post, you'll see I referred to my "front pack." I expect to start off about 50# overweight, to my regret. I figure my daily calorie deficit to be about 2500 (total needed: 6,000/day). The "front pack" will provide most of that over the whole trip.

Betcha by the time you get to Hiawassee, you'll find AYCE quite cost effective, indeed. By the time you get through the areas with the AYCE places and up into Yankee land, then you'll wish you could find one. You'll dream about them. At that point, you'll screw the dried corn and the dehydrated soy this and that. You're going to want a bacon double cheeseburger with mayo on the fries and a chocolate shake and a salad with blue cheese dressing and a couple of pitchers of soda.

Well, since I know where most of those AYCEs are (you left out the Shoney's in Gatlinburg), I know how to skip them, including going past the town. As for the dreams, yeah. But as my mom used to tell me, "Wantin' ain't gettin'." A little austerity, both financial and dietary, isn't a bad thing, for weasels or others.

The Weasel

[Appalachian Tater]

Whoa. Acknowledging that one might not end up sticking with one's original budget or schedule is one thing.

To say one doesn't need one at all is something else.

One's expected budget is a vital part of one's planning. For some lucky folks, the ammount of money one ends up spending on a long hike isn't a problem or consideration. For other folks, especially younger ones, it is of crucial importance, especially when lack of budgeting or planning forces one to drastically alter one's trip, or even suspend it.

Gotta disagree with my friend Tater....having an idea of what you can realistically spend does not interfere with your freedom. On the contrary, having a good idea about this, in many cases, is what allows people the freedom to complete their trip and not prematurely end it.

Jack, I said, "unless you have to". A lot of people with adequate resources and plenty of time overplan their trips, creating budgets and maildrops and schedules down to the day if not mile, for a five month trip. Like L. Wolf said, it all goes out the window.

Much better just to put $5,000 in an account and use it without thinking if you can afford it. Other than boozing, the things thru-hikers spend money on are mostly food and shelter, not generally considered totally unnecessary luxuries. Going into a grocery store once a week while you're hiking is much more pleasant if you don't have to pinch pennies. Ditto on the pizza and burgers in town.

If you don't have the money, then yes, you should roughly budget. Still, it is likely to go out the window.

[Appalachian Tater]

Hey, The Weasel, I don't know about Shoneys in Gatlinburg, but that barbecue place certainly had a decent salad and dessert bar. It was a good place to eat the breakfast buffet, too. It really is important to eat fresh fruits and vegetables in town if your body craves it. If you have well-planned dehydrated meals and a bottle of olive oil, well you may not even get particularly hungry. But I ate several plates of bacon and sausage for breakfast after having a platter of barbecued meat the night before.

[The Weasel]

Hey, The Weasel, I don't know about Shoneys in Gatlinburg, but that barbecue place certainly had a decent salad and dessert bar. It was a good place to eat the breakfast buffet, too. It really is important to eat fresh fruits and vegetables in town if your body craves it. If you have well-planned dehydrated meals and a bottle of olive oil, well you may not even get particularly hungry. But I ate several plates of bacon and sausage for breakfast after having a platter of barbecued meat the night before.

Of course I'll be hungry, you dolt! As I've said, I'm trying to see how low cost I can make this, not how gustatorily satisfying! When we hit Newfound Gap, I'll wait for you while you pig out.

The Weasel

[SGT Rock]

Are you hiking out here again soon Weasel?

[The Weasel]

Rock:

Not this fall, but I'm considering doing some significant sectioning next year in 200 mile chunks. Then perhaps the whole silly thing in '09 or '10.

Did you see my questions about your budgeting process?

The Weasel

[The Weasel]

Jack: A question, by the way, about Hanover: Is "Tigger's Treehouse" ($5/night) still operating? Floor space is just fine with me.

The Weasel

[The Weasel]

In terms of keeping cost down. I remembered that I hadn't mentioned something I did in '00 that was useful a few times, which I will probably do again:

I got 'letters of introduction' ("To Whom It May Concern") from the pastor of my church and also from the Council Executive of the BSA Counsel I was then very active in, with each letter introducing me as someone they knew and had a good regard for. Each letter mentioned that any courtesies that the reader could provide would be appreciated.

I used the church letter seveal times at churches of my denomination at which, seeing someone a bit bedraggled and with a shaggy beard, they might not otherwise have been as welcoming. Indeed, I got some extremely good welcoming, including a few potluck dinners, a room in a private house, and use of some church facilities. The Scout letter was more of a 'passport' (although I considered taking a few days off at a couple of nearby Scout camps), and was a major reason I didn't get a free room at the Mars Hill, NC jail, when the local chief of police made it clear he didn't like AT trail hitchers. In other words, they saved me money. Didn't ask for help, but people offer it when they aren't worried about the guy with the beard.

The Weasel