No doubt, I don't do big cats.Originally Posted by Teacher & Snacktime
...and geese, hate when they fly at me flapping their wings.
The trick is to let them sniff you first and then to scratch them behind the ears.
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
prolly start purrrrring, then I'd be afraid to stop.
Years ago, as a teen, we lived in Aldie, Va on a historical farm.. one evening i was startled by the sound of what i took to be a child screaming.. my first thought was one of the worker/tenant's young kids had gotten lost.. then i remembered what i had once read about a cougar cry sounding like a woman's scream and realized that that was what it must have been.. this was back in '75 or '76.Those of you who live in the No. Va region may remember newspaper reports from about 7 years ago of numerous sightings of a mountain lion in Loudoun county along areas near the AT. My son and several of his friends observed the big cat (estimated at about 100-120 lbs) while bow hunting over about a 2 year period. My wife had it come out of the creek bed near our house when walking our dog at about the same time. Numerous others spotted the animal as well. On local saw the cat take down a full size deer. It was seen occassionaly for about 3 years. I believe one of the neighbors finally shot it as it has not been seen for a long time.
Before anyone has a heart attack about that a couple of notes. 1. it was not a native animal but had been released after being kept as a pet by one of the locals (I got this from the Game Warden - he was pretty certain who the person was); 2. the cat was NOT afraid of people as it should have been - wild cats do not come near people on purpose as this cat often did. 3. after it came out of the trees and followed to young girls walking down one of the private roads on their way to the bus stop many of the fathers in the area were talking about shooting it before someones kid got killed.
FOr those of you who are not sure about the bob cat or mountain lion difference: a bob cat is full size at about 25-30 lbs. It also has a call that sounds like a womand being murdered with a knife (raises the hair on your neck when you are sleeping in a tenta at night :); a mountian lion which is full sized is at least as big as a very large dog and can be as large as 150 lbs. They also have a very distinctive long rope like tail. Also the coloring of the two animals is very diffferent with the big cat being a sort of tawney brown most of the time, while a bob cat has a sort of motteled camoflage pattern.
Wyo
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I had an informal chat in the local cafe with a couple of wildlife 'officials'....and yes, the goal is to discredit. I can understand as the bulk are either hoaxes or bobcats. I gather there are a lot of politics over acknowledging their presence as well. I've heard everything from fear of people trying to kill them to having to spend money to track and protect including protect land from development. However, recently a horse was attacked in the next town over and the owner submitted DNA samples to an independent lab. She refused to turn them over to wildlife officials only to have them test negative or disappear. Her samples were from a mountain lion. They are here. You only need to catch a glimpse of one once to know it ain't no bobcat.
An informal chat in a local cafe with a couple of wildlife 'officials', coupled with the "I hear stories" along with a story of someone claiming they had hair samples for DNA submitted to a private lab and refused to get Wardens involved (curiously no results were offered from the private lab) just doesn't add up.
Sorry to pour water on this, but the source of a casual conversation with a couple of people in a cafe claiming conspiracy in discrediting witnesses just doesn't ring true. How about a couple of legitimate State Game Wardens and/or the application of the scientific method? Without the scientific method that looks at evidence, how do we separate fact from mistaken identification or fiction? Without this, space aliens or big foot sighting claims would be considered fact until proven false, which is nearly impossible as one cannot prove a negative.
Claims of sightings are not in and of themselves evidence, MA like other states notes them as "leads". That is why claimants are questioned, not to "discredit" people but to assess if it could be a legitimate sighting or if was a different animal, which often turns out to be the case. When there is evidence like tracks, photos, hair, scat, or feeding sites, it is reviewed. Sometimes photo evidence and tracks will show it's not what the claimant thought it was, to which some people have an adverse reaction. Claims that are made with evidence that is indeterminate or absent any evidence beyond a sighting claim, are typically recorded in the off chance it can be used later to confirm animal movements as happened in the CT cougar instance.
The MA Dpt of Energy and Environmental Affairs that oversees Wardens and Wildlife issues website shows a few confirmed sightings in MA of cougars, and recognizes the Cougar Network has some documented cougar sightings in the Northeast. Hardly the mark of a discrediting tactic. Here is part of their website information:
"Other than two confirmed cases, all reports of Mountain Lions in Massachusetts that include tangible evidence have turned out to be other kinds of animals. These animals have usually been misidentified because they were seen under poor conditions or by someone not familiar with the species.
Mistaken reports of Mountain Lions in Massachusetts are most commonly Bobcats. Many people do not realize how tall and large a grown Bobcat is. An adult male bobcat can reach nearly 4 feet in length and 35-40 pounds. In addition, Bobcats are becoming much more common and are spreading into areas in which they have not been seen before. Coyotes, especially those with fur loss and skinny tails caused by mange, have also been mistaken for Mountain Lions. Even House Cats are reported as Mountain Lions in a surprising number of cases. It may seem difficult to believe that a ten pound House Cat can be confused with a 100-pound Mountain Lion, but when the animal is back-lit so the color and pattern is not visible, and seen in an open landscape without good points of reference for size, the similarities in the silhouette can be remarkable, especially in a photograph (see misidentification section).
There have been two cases in which the evidence does support the presence of a real Mountain Lion in Massachusetts. The Cougar Network has documentation for a small number of Mountain Lions in the Northeast."
Last edited by Traveler; 02-18-2017 at 09:52.
Talked to a fisherman coming off the Tombigbee River yesterday and he said there was a black panther that was in his yard and crossed over into his neighbors bushes/shrubs. His wife saw it also and was concerned. He lives in the outskirts of Columbus, Mississippi. Just a little tidbit of info :-)
I've run into six mountain lions here I western Montana in 25 years. They are incredibly stealthy and have no real wariness when it comes to human habitation. If there are deer, the mountain lions will follow. I've set up trail cams on kills and they are predictably nocturnal only feeding on kills at night. This is especially true with mothers with kittens. Males and mothers with sub adults will hunt in the evening and early morning but it's very rare to see them in daylight.
Black panthers are melanistic color variants of either leopards, or jaguars.
just outside of tucson we have the USA's only known jaguar in the santa ritas. climbed mt wrightson last week and always hope to see jefe, to no avail.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Jefe_(jaguar)
On 4 March talked to a hiker at New found Gap that saw a big cat close to Double Springs shelter. I asked if he got a photo? He replied : No, I did'nt ask him to smile.
There are wonders out there, now to find them.
The cougar isn't the only animal that makes that sound. Apparently foxes, bobcats, and owls do too.
My sister took pictures of one in her backyard in Connecticut. (Not a bobcat).
I recall reading a while back another had been spotted sonewheresUsed to be over a larger range, extirpated by man.
In 1870s on was killed in louisiana 9 ft nose-tail
Early settles called them the "american tygre".
Jaguars continued to range the big thicket region of eastern Texas until about 1902. An average of 1 was killed annually in south Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico until 1948 when a predator control poisoning program on both sides of the U.S./Mexican border caused their complete extirpation north of the Rio Grande along with Mexican grizzlies and wolves.
On the AT, they're may be some still out there.
I routinely investigate cougar sightings in central Pennsylvania along the AT region. I approach every witness report with the same criterion: find PHYSICAL EVIDENCE to support or negate the witness's statement--the same standard I apply to crime scene investigations, which I teach at our local police academy and to new wardens. My goal is to say, Yes it is a cougar; No it's not a cougar, or I don't know. Saying "might be, could be" is pointless.
After 24 years on the job, I have 12 No cases, and 2 don't know cases. In the 12, I found PHYSICAL EVIDENCE that ruled out a cougar. In 2 cases, I found PHYSICAL EVIDENCE that a large creature was present, but was unable to identify the species--therefore, I don't know.
The real question is: Is there a wild, breeding population of cougars in the east US? There have been released "pet" cougars found here, and a Wisconsin cougar got hit by a car in Connecticut, but a wild, breeding population has not been found.
I wish it were otherwise. I would love to find a wild cougar in Pennsylvania.
I'm not sure what the definition of "wild, breeding population" is, exactly, but there have been cougar sightings in TN (esp. on game cameras):
http://www.local8now.com/content/new...413910373.html
http://www.wbir.com/news/local/anoth...ssee/303027781
and no indication that they were ever anyone's pets. I suppose if they weren't a wild, breeding population, they would simply die out over time and sightings would decrease in number, not increase.
One of the articles indicated all of the sightings could be of the same animal, since they can travel over large areas. Although there may be no indication that it/they were ever anyone's pet, there is also no indication it/they hadn't been anyone's pet.
Personally I hope they are migrating into the area, but there isn't enough evidence yet.
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