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  1. #41

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    So, you successfully trudge 2,000 miles to Maine and a guy with a FAX in a canoe is going to say he cannot take you across without a form or if you are underage due to some insurance requirement?


    Looking forward to Steve's reply.

  2. #42
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    he ain't gonna be the first minor to take the canoe, if he gets there, he won't need to sign ahead of time

  3. #43
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
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    Maybe Kirby should look into getting emancipated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_of_minors
    SGT Rock
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    My 2008 Trail Journal of the BMT/AT

    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
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    NO SNIVELING

  4. #44
    Registered User Frolicking Dinosaurs's Avatar
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    Emancipation crossed my mind as well,.... Kirby would then have to carry a certified copy of the court order showing a court had declared him emancipated.

    BTW, not all states accept other states' juvenile court orders so this should be done in an 'adult' court if Kirby and his parents elect to go this route.

  5. #45
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    All he needs is an enlistment contract.






    JUST KIDDING!
    SGT Rock
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    My 2008 Trail Journal of the BMT/AT

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  6. #46
    Registered User Frolicking Dinosaurs's Avatar
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    ::: Dino eyes SgtRock's toes and gets tail ready to whack eastward :::

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Man View Post
    So, you successfully trudge 2,000 miles to Maine and a guy with a FAX in a canoe is going to say he cannot take you across without a form or if you are underage due to some insurance requirement?


    Looking forward to Steve's reply.
    Unfortunately due to liability and litigation in this country...that could feasibly happen.
    I don't think that Steve would ever refuse a canoe crossing to anyone but he is risking the future of his business without the release.
    If your car insurance company notified you that you could not ride anyone in your car without a signed release or they would drop your coverage in an accident without that signed release and you would be liable for all responsibility...how many people would you give a ride to?

    Whether you want to believe it or not, America has lost more of their personal freedoms because of insurance companies than any amount of war or terrorism.

    geek

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by SGT Rock View Post
    It is a pretty interesting point and I think Kirby is a heck of a sharp kid for thinking of it. And you know what makes me think that: the fact that with the WhiteBlaze brain trust all rubbing their brain cells together - no one actually knows the answer to this one.
    Therein lies the humor. Kirby is more mature and thoughtful than many thru-hikers and has some good hiking experience as well. Plenty of thru-hikers have zero experience.

  9. #49
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appalachian Tater View Post
    Therein lies the humor. Kirby is more mature and thoughtful than many thru-hikers and has some good hiking experience as well. Plenty of thru-hikers have zero experience.
    Good point. I spent the night at a shelter one night with some southbounders that were about 1600 miles into their thru-hike. They didn't know how to start a campfire.
    SGT Rock
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    My 2008 Trail Journal of the BMT/AT

    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
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    NO SNIVELING

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by SGT Rock View Post
    Good point. I spent the night at a shelter one night with some southbounders that were about 1600 miles into their thru-hike. They didn't know how to start a campfire.
    Yup, I was at a shelter in the Smokies and a couple asked me where the garbage can was...

    Kirby, definately carry a picture I.D. and your health insurance card. A notoraized letter from your parents in case of an emergency. That's about all you'll need as far as legal documents go. Steve will let you know the rest.
    "It was on the first of May, in the year 1769, that I resigned my domestic happiness for a time, and left my family and peaceable habitation on the Yadkin River, in North Carolina, to wander through the wilderness of America." - Daniel Boone

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Adams View Post
    Unfortunately due to liability and litigation in this country...that could feasibly happen.
    I don't think that Steve would ever refuse a canoe crossing to anyone but he is risking the future of his business without the release.
    If your car insurance company notified you that you could not ride anyone in your car without a signed release or they would drop your coverage in an accident without that signed release and you would be liable for all responsibility...how many people would you give a ride to?

    Whether you want to believe it or not, America has lost more of their personal freedoms because of insurance companies than any amount of war or terrorism.

    geek
    Wonderful. When will the ATC start making hikers sign a release to step foot on the trail? There are a number of places where you can easily get hurt or, as some have proven, get lost. Why don't they just post a warning sign similar to the ones you see in the White Mountains and other areas where conditions may be hazardous? "Warning, The Ferryman is working hard to keep you safe, please listen to and follow all his instructions. And remember, just because you listen to and follow all his instructions, this does not guarantee your safety - *S**T* happens! Take the Ferry at your own risk."

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by SGT Rock View Post
    Good point. I spent the night at a shelter one night with some southbounders that were about 1600 miles into their thru-hike. They didn't know how to start a campfire.
    Surprising? Maybe not. Emphasis on LNT means there are fewer fire rings. Many shelters no longer have fire rings. Emphasis on big miles (for thru-hikers) means more time hiking, less time at camp. Thirty years ago, "camping" invariably involved a campfire. But that hasn't been true for several years now.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Man View Post
    Wonderful. When will the ATC start making hikers sign a release to step foot on the trail? There are a number of places where you can easily get hurt or, as some have proven, get lost. Why don't they just post a warning sign similar to the ones you see in the White Mountains and other areas where conditions may be hazardous? "Warning, The Ferryman is working hard to keep you safe, please listen to and follow all his instructions. And remember, just because you listen to and follow all his instructions, this does not guarantee your safety - *S**T* happens! Take the Ferry at your own risk."
    There are laws in most states that exempt land owners from liability for injuries received while recreating on lands owned by others. Maine has one of the strongest of such laws and a court system most diligent in enforcing the laws. Landowners are generally protected everywhere. But Maine's prohibition against such liability ranks as the strongest as I understand it.

    Maine law assumes that trails, bridges, or other things found on the land are inherently dangerous and the public uses such facilities entirely at their own risk.

    However, I doubt if a contractor ferrying people across a dangerous river qualifies for exemption from liability.

    That's why the ferry contractor carries insurance and why he asks people to sign a liability waiver.

    Weary

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by _terrapin_ View Post
    Surprising? Maybe not. Emphasis on LNT means there are fewer fire rings. Many shelters no longer have fire rings. Emphasis on big miles (for thru-hikers) means more time hiking, less time at camp. Thirty years ago, "camping" invariably involved a campfire. But that hasn't been true for several years now.
    Knowing how to start a fire could be a safety issue as winter conditions approach.

  15. #55
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _terrapin_ View Post
    Surprising? Maybe not. Emphasis on LNT means there are fewer fire rings. Many shelters no longer have fire rings. Emphasis on big miles (for thru-hikers) means more time hiking, less time at camp. Thirty years ago, "camping" invariably involved a campfire. But that hasn't been true for several years now.
    Maybe... But staying at shelters with fire rings in front of them is not exactly LNT. There is plenty of T already there. What I have noticed on the trail and here is a tendency for some thru-hikers to not know how to keep down dry, not think maps are important, know more about shelter rules than setting up a tent in the rain, and other little items of information that you would assume someone that spends a lot of time in the back country should know. It sort of leads me to realize anyone can spend a lot of time on the AT and not actually have to learn much about living in the wilderness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tin Man View Post
    Knowing how to start a fire could be a safety issue as winter conditions approach.
    Exactly.
    SGT Rock
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    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
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  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by weary View Post
    Maine law assumes that trails, bridges, or other things found on the land are inherently dangerous and the public uses such facilities entirely at their own risk.

    However, I doubt if a contractor ferrying people across a dangerous river qualifies for exemption from liability.

    That's why the ferry contractor carries insurance and why he asks people to sign a liability waiver.

    Weary
    I am not really debating the law or the fact that the presence of a person or business justifies a different law. Although, highway construction issues seem to come with very limited liabilty.

    Anyway, I am just tired of being followed by the law when I venture into the woods - not that the law is following me or anything like that.

  17. #57

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    With all the rules and regs it appears that the AT is becoming less of a wilderness experience than a lesson in conserving every square inch of the corridor that is not the footpath itself. "Please practice LNT by not venturing off the trail. Enjoy your wilderness experience." Huh?

    "Don't step on the pretty fungi or the whole ecosystem will disappear" attitude is a little over the top, so to speak. This year in NH, I got a big kick out of the signs at a composting outhouse to pee in the woods and then most of the woods was roped off with signs: "this is a forest restoration area, please keep out". At the same campsite, there was a sign to use the bear box to store your food. Great, except the bear box was padlocked. I guess I simply don't understand NH/AMC humor.

  18. #58
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
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    Hike the BMT.
    SGT Rock
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    My 2008 Trail Journal of the BMT/AT

    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
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  19. #59

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    Good idea. Now I am beginning to understand your 2008 thru-hike plans.

  20. #60
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
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    Ford the Kennebec
    SGT Rock
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    My 2008 Trail Journal of the BMT/AT

    BMT Thru-Hikers' Guide
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    NO SNIVELING

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