Minors hiking alone - legal aspects

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

......Except for a handful of places, civilization is less than a dozen miles away. Most of the time you can hear it, see it, or smell it...... .. the AT isn't much of a wilderness these days. It's not even a "pretend" wilderness. I'm not really excusing the lack of "back country" skills, but I'm not at all surprised at their disappearance.

BUT, if you don't need to navigate, you don't need to learn site selection, you don't need to learn how to do certain things (like set up in the rain) that you would have to do on most other back county trails because the AT provides shelters, you don't have to learn how to spot possible water sources, and probably some other things that if you can't do you could be miserable on any other trail BUT the AT.

Rock & Terrapin have hit on the crux of why I am as old as I am and haven't tackled the AT though I've hiked a whole lotta miles in my time. In my younger years, the AT just wasn't wild enough to attract me. Now that I'm older, slower and more subject to illness and injury, I'll gladly put up with civilization being a dozen or less miles away.

[Appalachian Tater]

I doubt the idea for a liability waiver came to Steve the Ferryman in a vision. It is more likely that the insurance company requires it.

[Tin Man]

I doubt the idea for a liability waiver came to Steve the Ferryman in a vision. It is more likely that the insurance company requires it.

I don't think anyone is blaming Steve, especially when there are all those insurance companies to blame.

[SGT Rock]

Rock & Terrapin have hit on the crux of why I am as old as I am and haven't tackled the AT though I've hiked a whole lotta miles in my time. In my younger years, the AT just wasn't wild enough to attract me. Now that I'm older, slower and more subject to illness and injury, I'll gladly put up with civilization being a dozen or less miles away.

Yes, but there are some that equate their thru-hike with the sturdiness of Viking ancestors.

Sheesh! Old ladies, blind men, legless people, and children have done it.

(No offense meant to old ladies, blind people, minors, or unidexters implied)

[Appalachian Tater]

Well, you know the A.T. will not be won by weaklings, subtle, suave and mild, but by men with the hearts of Vikings, and the simple faith of a child.

[rafe]

Yes, but there are some that equate their thru-hike with the sturdiness of Viking ancestors.

Well, a thru hike does sort of suggest that you've learned how to protect and ration your toilet paper.

[SGT Rock]

I never thought it was something to be won. I must have missed the scoreboard at the trail heads.

Some people have overinflated opinons of themselves I reckon.

But it just proves something about how 100 people can do something, and there is always that 10%-15% that despite being there for the whole thing, still won't get it.

[SGT Rock]

Well, a thru hike does sort of suggest that you've learned how to protect and ration your toilet paper.

Real Vikings wiped their buttox with rotting fish.

[Lone Wolf]

Real Vikings wiped their buttox with rotting fish.

then ate the fish

[rafe]

then ate the fish

The Vikings of Greenland didn't eat fish. They ate whales and seals, but not fish. I'm not joking. (read Jared Diamond's book, "Collapse.")

[SGT Rock]

A baby seal walks into a club...

[Appalachian Tater]

They ate lambs, too. The first part of that book is very good.

[JAK]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwsnt...elated&search=

[Miner]

I thought the only think in common betwen thru-hikers and vikings was their obsession with growing beards. A vikings idea of living off the land was plundering the nearest village. Oh wait... now I see the relationship. Those poor all you can eat buffets.

[jesse]

Kirby, Just use your fake ID. Uh, you do have a fake ID don't you?

BTW, I think we just hit a new thread hijack record

Real Vikings wiped their buttox with rotting fish.

then ate the fish

[rafe]

Rock, it's not just the nature of the AT or the existence of shelters; it's the emphasis on thru-hiking and "making miles" that diminishes the experience somewhat.

Simple example. A small group of casual "weekend" hikers head for the AT for a long weekend. They may be doing a lot of things wrong and "inefficiently" but they're generally expecting to be more or less self-sufficient in the woods during that brief period.

Contrast this with the experienced, "savvy" thru-hiker or speed hiker who makes clever arrangements for slack-packing, or is "smart enough" to stop at the deli that's 0.3 miles off the trail for a beer and a hot lunch.

The non-thru-hiker is more willing to play the game and "pretend" he's in the wilderness. The thru-hiker "knows better."

[Jim Adams]

Well, a thru hike does sort of suggest that you've learned how to protect and ration your toilet paper.

1. the AT is NOT wilderness.
2. I can figure declanation but have never carried the maps on the AT.
3. It is definitely the insurance companies that require the release.
4. The release can be next to useless if the injured party has a good lawyer.
5. Most recreational laws pertaining to injuries on private or public land does make the liability issue moot UNLESS some one is being paid for services or use ie: Steve is paid for the services therefore liability is an issue.
6. Hell with starting fire, WHY IS IT THAT ALOT OF THRU HIKERS CAN KEEP THEIR TOILET PAPER DRY BUT NOT THEIR DOWN?

just some thoughts!

geek

[SGT Rock]

Maybe. I think it is a symptom of just how the trail has evolved recently (say in the last 20 years). If you listen to the old timers of thru-hiking it was more normal for folks to spend longer between re-supply stops and still make it in the same number of days overall. And the fact is you can still do multiple 15 - 20 mile days and still spend more time in the woods yet less time in the shelters - there just doesn't seem to be the need for most folks to need to be out there.

I'm not saying it is all bad. I'll hike how I want to hike based on what I feel like and what is available. BUT my point is still this: it is possible to be a verified thru-hiker and still not know a hell of a lot about living in the wilderness.

[SGT Rock]

6. Hell with starting fire, WHY IS IT THAT ALOT OF THRU HIKERS CAN KEEP THEIR TOILET PAPER DRY BUT NOT THEIR DOWN?

just some thoughts!

geek

Or even a synthetic bag dry.

[Jim Adams]

SGT Rock,
Very true! When I hiked in 1990 almost everyone stayed in shelters even though there were probably less than 10 privys on the entire trail. People spent less time in town and further days between restocks simply because there were far less services catering to the thruhiker.
I had more zeros in 1990 than in 2002 but spent far less time in town in 1990. When I was out hiking, the "newer" lighter gear in 2002 made it easier to hike further and faster.
I really don't think that you needed to know more about wilderness skills in 1990. There were more fire rings but I don't remember having very many fires in 1990 because you were still too tired to gather wood most nights.
If you actually tried to survive on the trail for a thru hike, most people with skills wouldn't make it quick enough for the season...survival skills take time to utilize. I'm just guessing but I would say that maybe 3 people in 1990 and maybe 3 people in 2002 were strong enough in wilderness skills to survive a thru under those conditions and I wasn't one of them. I have spent alot of my life in true wilderness and loved every minute it but I was not one of those capable of doing a survival thru...I know just enough under those conditions to slowly die painfully a few weeks later than most! LOL

geek