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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by minnesotasmith View Post
    I was asked what my credentials were to comment upon food science. I gave the courtesy of responding (more politely than the question was asked, I might add).
    Actually, you weren't directly asked. And just so you know, a snippy remark from you regarding my lack of politeness doesn't exactly wound when placed in context of your well-known views regarding some of your fellow humans that don't share all of your characteristics.

    I have studied the research on phytoestrogens in the context of osteoporosis prevention. And it wasn't 25 years ago, either, back when academic achievement was measured in pounds of paper.

    My current opinion is that if they affect breast cancer, for example, there are more important factors involved, if you compare populations based on soy consumption. Still, if someone has estrogen-dependent cancer, they should avoid soy products pending further research.

  2. #42

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    Minnesota Smith answered for me. Mail drops are a waste of time and money. Resuppling on the trail is easy.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pirate View Post
    Minnesota Smith answered for me. Mail drops are a waste of time and money. Resuppling on the trail is easy.
    i second that motion

  4. #44
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    [quote=mozzie;436290] the problem is just how many food drops are possible within reason?
    ============================================

    There's no right/wrong answer to your question. The way you posed the question though ...my answer would be "as many as you are willing to deal with".

    There a couple issues with maildrops in general. First is that you have to stay on track in order to link up with them when you want/need them. Second is that you will no doubt get sick and tired of some/all that food you bought up front.

    Unless you have special dietary needs it is possible to pretty much "buy as you go" nowadays. But that's probably not what you want to hear after accumulating all that food.

    'Slogger
    The more I learn ...the more I realize I don't know.

  5. #45
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    Something to contemplate is sending what you do have as a part of a mail drop, but not trying to make your entire re-supply a mail drop. For example: If you like to make killer jerky or dried fruits, then send them to yourself and supplement that with local purchase. That way you get some variety but you also get some of your personal likes.
    SGT Rock
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  6. #46
    Registered User Dakota Dan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L. Wolf View Post
    your chances of hiking the whole trail are slim. buy as you go. no mail drops

    If going solo I'd agree. Since I'll have a nephew to fetch mail-drops from the PO it may work out better and cheaper. I want to travel with a minimal of inconvenience. I'm looking at taking and sharing a wood burning camp stove so I don't have to fool with store bought fuels. No cell phones or electronics, just LED lights. I've also been trying to figure out if shipping eggs in our mail drops is going to fly. Haven't decided on this one.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakota Dan View Post
    I've also been trying to figure out if shipping eggs in our mail drops is going to fly. Haven't decided on this one.
    shipping eggs is totally not needed. there's plenty of places to get fresh eggs

  8. #48
    AT 4000+, LT, FHT, ALT Blissful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dakota Dan View Post
    If going solo I'd agree. Since I'll have a nephew to fetch mail-drops from the PO it may work out better and cheaper. I want to travel with a minimal of inconvenience. I'm looking at taking and sharing a wood burning camp stove so I don't have to fool with store bought fuels. No cell phones or electronics, just LED lights. I've also been trying to figure out if shipping eggs in our mail drops is going to fly. Haven't decided on this one.
    I really thought trying to get fuel cans would be a pain. No problem down south. A few places up north we did mail them, no problem. Loved having my pocket rocket and used it the whole hike.

    And yes, buy your eggs on the trail if you really want them. Actually I would wait until you hit towns and have breakfast. Cooking at times can be a pain on the trail, esp a thru hike when you are making miles, etc., and get there exhausted or you're freezing cold and just want to get into your sleeping bag and konk out. I was glad for simple meals. And you don't want the pain of cleaning out an eggie pan, which I think is worse than a mashed potato pan, esp if you don't get to it and the egg dries on. But whatever works for you.

    BTW - my hubby loves taking drinks of my soy milk. I tease him about it though.







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  9. #49
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    Here's something to think about that is rarely talked about on the AT. Sending maildrops from the trail while hiking. This is done regularly on the PCT. It's beneficial because
    1) it's expensive to send food across the country (and pointless).
    2) you don't know whether you'll make it to said town. There's always a possibility of getting injured or quitting.

    Though admittedly this is time consuming and may not be what you wanna do on your zero day. I suggest doing it from a town that has a good market and somewhere that you plan to spend some time at.

    I'd send a Fontana Drop (if skipping the Hoch's) from Hiawasee or Franklin.
    I'd send a Harpers Ferry box to the ATC office from Waynesboro.
    I'd send a Port Clinton box from Duncannon
    Maybe send a box to Glencliff from Hanover, though I don't think a food drop is mandatory here
    Maybe send an Andover box from Hanover or Gorham if you're taking it slow.

    Something to think about. Will definately save you money, you'll eat what you want and you'll cut down on the pre-hike prep
    Anything's within walking distance if you've got the time.
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  10. #50
    First Sergeant SGT Rock's Avatar
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    That actually sounds like a good idea.
    SGT Rock
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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blissful View Post
    And yes, buy your eggs on the trail if you really want them. Actually I would wait until you hit towns and have breakfast. Cooking at times can be a pain on the trail...
    Seems like it'd be easy enough to hard boil up to four eggs in an Imusa cup -- just did a couple on the supercat, just to test -- would you carry some for a quick snack? I think they'd be ok to the end of day.

  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by minnesotasmith View Post
    .......BTW, I probably ate more nutritiously on the Trail than 90% of other thruhikers last year. How many carried dried sushi-grade seaweed and freeze-dried spinach and broccoli, and never cooked ONE Ramen their whole hike?
    I haven't thruhiked but have done several 100+ mile section hikes necessitating resupply. I never eat Ramen noodles, my daily oatmeal is made at home with plain oats, cracked wheat, flax meal, spice, and a little sugar - not the packaged expensive sweet crap sold in stores. I prefer whole grain pastas, rice, and bulgur wheat for my dinners. My dehydrated vegetables are inexpensive and come from an Amish store. And that's why I like maildrops.

  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by minnesotasmith View Post
    *** does THAT mean?

    BTW, I probably ate more nutritiously on the Trail than 90% of other thruhikers last year. How many carried dried sushi-grade seaweed and freeze-dried spinach and broccoli, and never cooked ONE Ramen their whole hike?
    Who would want to eat dried out sushi seaweed when there are better food offerings like pork chops, steaks, bacon and french fries.

  14. #54

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    you need 2...one south of PA and one north of PA!

    Have friends or family send a surprise goodie box to lift your spirits...everything else can be bought along the way.

    geek

  15. #55
    AT 4000+, LT, FHT, ALT Blissful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoyoteWhips View Post
    Seems like it'd be easy enough to hard boil up to four eggs in an Imusa cup -- just did a couple on the supercat, just to test -- would you carry some for a quick snack? I think they'd be ok to the end of day.

    You're right, that would be good. Boiled eggs don't keep as long as fresh, though, but should be fine in the cooler times of the hike.







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  16. #56
    AT 4000+, LT, FHT, ALT Blissful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pirate View Post
    Who would want to eat dried out sushi seaweed when there are better food offerings like pork chops, steaks, bacon and french fries.

    Ha ha!! That is too funny.
    My hubby loves sushi, but raw fish on the trail is a little too much. We left the bamboo sushi wrapper rolls at home.







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  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pirate View Post
    Who would want to eat dried out sushi seaweed when there are better food offerings like pork chops, steaks, bacon and french fries.
    I love dried nori. you can buy it at the asian markets an it's really good for a little snack when it's dry it's very crunchy and good. Thanks for the idea that'll definitely be a care package must.

  18. #58

    Talking

    wasabi peas yum
    this thread has gone to hell in back what a hoot.a question i should have never ask in the first place . mail dropps should be few .but i am sitting on a ton of food.i will probibly drop a lot in the hiker boxes.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by mozzie View Post
    wasabi peas yum
    Awesome hiking food.

  20. #60

    Default Here are a couple for you, Sgt. Rock...

    Quote Originally Posted by SGT Rock View Post
    OK, so we have MS credentials out of the way. Is there a reference you can point us to on-line to read about this. This is sort of an interesting topic.

    Hopefully something that is peer reviewed. I just did a google and don't trust most of what I read. "Soy Is Making Kids 'Gay'" was one of them.
    From a Food and Drug Administration article: http://www.fda.gov/Fdac/features/2000/300_soy.html

    "...specific components of soy, such as the soy isoflavones daidzein and genistein, not the whole food or intact soy protein.

    The problem, researchers say, is that isoflavones are phytoestrogens, a weak form of estrogen that could have a drug-like effect in the body. This may be pronounced in postmenopausal women, and some studies suggest that high isoflavone levels might increase the risk of cancer, particularly breast cancer..."

    (And, how many guys here want to increase their intake of estrogens, which are female hormones?)
    ================================================== ==
    From an internal letter at the FDA between scientists about soy, that was on ABC News:

    http://www.alkalizeforhealth.net/Lsoy2.htm

    "some of the isoflavones found in soy, including genistein and equol, a metabolize of daidzen, demonstrate toxicity in estrogen sensitive tissues and in the thyroid. This is true for a number of species, including humans.
    Additionally, the adverse effects in humans occur in several tissues and, apparently, by several distinct mechanisms. Genistein is clearly estrogenic; it possesses the chemical structural features necessary for estrogenic activity ( Sheehan and Medlock, 1995; Tong, et al, 1997; Miksicek, 1998) and induces estrogenic responses in developing and adult animals and in adult humans.

    ...estrogens are important for maintenance of brain function in women; that the male brain contains aromatase, the enzyme that converts testosterone to estradiol; and that isoflavones inhibit this enzymatic activity"

    (They also mention thyroid problems that soy contributes to making more likely, plus it making birth defects and Alzheimer's more likely.)
    ================================================== =====
    Other gov'ts' food/health agencies finding out problems with soy:

    http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/soy_badnews.html

    "In July [2005?], the Israeli Health Ministry warned that babies should not receive soy formula, that children should eat soy no more than once per day to a maximum of three times per week and that adults should exercise caution because of increased risk of breast cancer and adverse effects on fertility. The Ministry based its advice upon the conclusions reached by a 13-member committee of nutritionists, oncologists, pediatricians and other specialists who spent more than year examining the evidence. They concluded that the estrogen-like plant hormones in soy can cause adverse effects on the human body and strongly urged consumers to minimize their consumption of soy foods...

    In addition to the recent soy warning issued by the Israeli Health Ministry, expert scientists with the British Committee
    on Toxicity, Swiss Federal Health Service and other government agencies have all expressed concern about soy’s potential to disrupt the digestive, immune and neuroendocrine systems of the human body and its role in rising rates of infertility, hypothyroidism and some types of cancer including thyroid and pancreatic cancers.
    Soy is also highly allergenic. Most experts now place soy protein among the top eight allergens, and some rate it in the top six or even top four. The Swedish Health Ministry has warned that allergic reactions to soy are increasingly common, ranging from mild to life threatening, and that fatalities have been reported."
    ================================================== =
    http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...soy_story.html

    They show how Asians actually consume by weight only small amounts of soy products, that historically it was mainly used to enrich cropland, then plowed under.

    "There's nothing natural about these modern soy protein products. Textured soy protein, for example, is made by forcing defatted soy flour through a machine called an extruder under conditions of such extreme heat and pressure that the very structure of the soy protein is changed. Production differs little from the extrusion technology used to produce starch-based packing materials, fiber-based industrial products, and plastic toy parts, bowls, and plates"

    And, about the antinutrients:

    "Antinutrients and Toxins in Soy
    Scientists who have studied the use of soy protein in animal feeds over the years have discovered a number of components in soy that cause poor growth, digestive distress, and other health problems.24-27

    To list just a few of these: Protease inhibitors interfere with protein digestion and have caused malnutrition, poor growth, digestive distress, and pancreatitis.28 Phytates block mineral absorption, causing zinc, iron, and calcium deficiencies.29-34 Lectins and saponins have caused leaky gut and other gastrointestinal and immune problems.35-36

    Oxalates-surprisingly high in soy-may cause problems for people prone to kidney stones and women suffering from vulvodynia, a painful condition marked by burning, stinging, and itching of the external genitalia.37, 38 Finally, oligosaccharides give soy its notorious reputation as a gas producer. Although these are present in all beans, soy is such a powerful "musical fruit" that the soy industry has identified "the flatulence factor" as a major obstacle that must be overcome for soy to achieve full consumer acceptance."

    Note that calcium tends to be deficient in thruhiker diets anyway, and vegetarians (more common among thrus than in the general populace) already tend to be running short on certain essential minerals, so there are even MORE reasons for those groups to avoid soy products.

    "Soy Allergens
    Soy is one of the top eight allergens that cause immediate hypersensitivity reactions such as coughing, sneezing, runny nose, hives, diarrhea, difficulty swallowing, and anaphylactic shock. Delayed allergic responses are even more common and occur anywhere from several hours to several days after the food is eaten. These have been linked to sleep disturbances, bedwetting, sinus and ear infections, crankiness, joint pain..."

    Like bad sleep and joint pain are things thruhikers don't care about?
    ================================================== ==

    http://www.nourishingourchildren.org/parents/soy.html

    "Although SPI [Soy Protein Isolate] is added to many foods, it was never granted GRAS status, meaning "Generally Recognized as Safe". The FDA only granted GRAS status to SPI for use as a binder in cardboard boxes. During the processing of soy, many additional toxins are formed, including nitrates (which are carcinogens) and a toxin called lysinoalanine. It was concerns about lysinoalanine in SPI that led the FDA to deny GRAS status for SPI as a food additive."

    "According to a Swiss report (see references), adult women consuming 100 mg isoflavones (about 2 cups of soy milk, or 1 cup of cooked mature soybeans) provide the estrogenic equivalent of a contraceptive pill. This means for a baby that weighs 6 kg (or just over 13 pounds), 10 mg provides the estrogenic equivalent of a contraceptive pill. Thus, the average amount of soybased formula taken in by a child provides the estrogenic equivalent of at least four birth control pills. Because babies are more vulnerable than adults to the effects of dietary estrogens, the effects could actually be much greater than that of four birth control pills. Hence the statement, "Babies on soy formula receive the estrogenic equivalent of at least five birth control pills per day.""
    ============================================
    http://www.healingdaily.com/detoxification-diet/soy.htm

    "...phytic acid", also called "phytates". This organic acid is present in the bran or hulls of all seeds and legumes, but none have the high level of phytates which soybeans do. Phytic acid blocks the body's uptake of essential minerals like magnesium, calcium, iron and especially zinc. Adding to the high phytate problem, soybeans are highly resistant to phytate-reducing techniques, such as long, slow cooking.

    "In addition, soybeans also contain hemagglutinin, a clot-promoting substance which causes red blood cells to clump together. These clustered blood cells cannot properly absorb oxygen for distribution to the body's tissues, and are unable to help in maintaining good cardiac health."

    Thruhikers don't care about cardiac health and aerobic fitness, do they?
    ==================================================

    How much more info do you people need? Omnivore or vegetarian, rich or broke, you can live your life quite nicely without large quantities of soy products.

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