Pay to Hike

[weary]

...The AT is a bargin thanks largely to the volunteerism.

But it all costs money. MATC has to spend $200,000 a year, most of it raised through donations from volunteers like us, to keep the trail open and protected. The money funds a trail crew, six caretakers and ridgerunners, a part time staff person, and general costs. You can help. Just open www.matc.org and make a contribution. It will help keep walking in Maine free.

The Maine Appalachian Trail Land Trust will be sending out its biannual donation letters in a couple of weeks. WE presently are seeking $500,000 so we will have a kitty to buy options when our negotiations with land owners bear fruit. Our vision is the protection of 85,000 acres of mountains and mountain valleys in the high peaks region surrounding Saddleback. The initial half million will help keep the land trust alive, give us credibility in our negotiations, and provide seed money for the major fund-raising that will have to follow.

Trail building and protection isn't cheap. But the alternative is the gradual loss of the wildness that makes the Maine section of the trail special.

Beat the crowds. Just open www.matlt.org and contribute.

Weary, MATLT president.

[emerald]

So, really, what does anything related to the NST in Wisconsin have to do with this thread? Maybe I'm beginning to regret suggesting an IAT forum.

[Sly]

So, really, what does anything related to the NST in Wisconsin have to do with this thread? Maybe I'm beginning to regret suggesting an IAT forum.

I can see the confusion but instead of IAT, which some people are confusing with Ice Age Trail, it needs to be renamed as International Appalachian Trail

[gsingjane]

I'm sorry, I guess I shouldn't have even brought up the Ice Age Trail in Wisconsin, I just thought the experience might be somewhat relevant to another trail system that requires shelter reservations and payment and point out some of the possible pitfalls with same. I am sorry it was OT and wish you luck in finding the information you seek!

Jane in CT

[emerald]

Don't sweat it. Your post was as you said somewhat relevant.

I can't see why anyone who genuinely wants to hike a trail anywhere would be detered by fees. Such a person should find another place to hike rather than complain.

It would seem to me places which charge fees are places were one can and should expect better facilities and a better experience generally unless of course someone gets bent out of shape by fees and there's a simple remedy for that as I said before.

We will accumulate International AT information in time I'm sure.

[Tipi Walter]

Don't sweat it. Your post was as you said somewhat relevant.

I can't see why anyone who genuinely wants to hike a trail anywhere would be detered by fees. Such a person should find another place to hike rather than complain.

It would seem to me places which charge fees are places were one can and should expect better facilities and a better experience generally unless of course someone gets bent out of shape by fees and there's a simple remedy for that as I said before.

We will accumulate International AT information in time I'm sure.

So, why not charge $5 per night on the AT? If it's such a great idea, why not let the AT be the first long trail to require nightly fees and user permits?

[WalkingStick75]

TIPI.. I think the AT is unique because it is federally protected and I think even some funding. Might be mistaken on the funding part but it is funded by the ATC, local clubs, corporate partnerships etc.
In the few spots that I did have to pay a caretaker it didn't bother me at all and if it were necessary to save the trail I would pay nightly but I don't think that will be an issue any time soon. Well, at least as long as we continue to support the trail.
Everyone needs to remember, nothing is free!

[MOWGLI]

TIPI.. I think the AT is unique because it is federally protected and I think even some funding. Might be mistaken on the funding part...

No, you are not mistaken. Considerable federal funding was utilized to acquire lands for the trail corridor. Hopefully the Land & Water Conservation Fund will get fully funded down the road. That is a broken campaign promise from Bush 43.

[shelterbuilder]

So, why not charge $5 per night on the AT? If it's such a great idea, why not let the AT be the first long trail to require nightly fees and user permits?

Charging a fee will require the NPS and/or ATC to hire more staff to handle both paperwork and enforcement. I can guarantee that the fee will be a lot more than $5 per night!

[weary]

So, why not charge $5 per night on the AT? If it's such a great idea, why not let the AT be the first long trail to require nightly fees and user permits?

Among many other reasons, collecting the fees on a trail with as many access points as the AT would cost 10 times more than it would bring in. It would require an army of collectors.

[Tipi Walter]

Backpacking and human-powered foot travel is all about spontaneity and freedom, take away these two attributes by charging a nightly fee and requiring user permits and we'll all become impotent dayhikers and sightseeing tourists. I know eventually every square inch of this country will be developed or paved over, but before that happens backpackers and hikers will help participate in the taming of the wilderness by agreeing to pay fees to camp and permits to walk.

As a dim vestige of the old mountain men, my kind will be a footnote in the history books of government land control and private corporate land aquisition.

People talk about the high cost of maintaining wilderness and yet wilderness is mandated to be a place where there is little or no sign of man's permanent presence. How much then could it cost to leave a place alone? A good corollary are car drivers. In North Carolina and Tennessee we pay taxes for road use and gas but there is no daily charge to drive unlimited miles on 99% of the highways. If the state of Tennessee mandated daily tolls on all roads, people would riot. I just don't understand why backpackers don't feel the same.

I can hear future conversations: "I think I'll go out and live in the woods for a couple of weeks." "Sounds great but I hope you have an extra $300 for the fees."

[WalkingStick75]

I think we can all agree that no matter what the trail if a fee is charged collection would almost have to be voluntary. Everyone just needs to support our trails to their own ability. For some it is time and labor others by opening up their check book.

[garyhebert]

I'm not opposed to SMALL fees or an annual statewide or all national parks etc pass. I love snowmobiling in VT, NH, ME; But if hiking costs became like annual snowmobile trail pass fees ($100/sled AFTER $22 registration for VT) that would seem unfair. We do subsidize parks with our taxes (and we should!). After that SMALL parking fees etc seem reasonable. As does voluntary support of clubs, etc who maintain trails and advocate for us. Lately I've been hiking lots and all over new england. I'd hate to have to pay big fees in every state when I merely dabble here and there. I wouldn't mind paying an annual fee to hike the AT or the LT covering all fees etc since I'm taking advantage of lots of resources & hidden efforts that make that possible. But that's me. I bet many thru hikers would not think it's right to pay say $200 to thru hike the AT any more than they'd wanna pay $5 or $10 every day hike or weekend they went out to hike. I'd rather pay it in taxes and hike as much as i want, sorta like using the freeway (though some tolls help cover the costs-imagine if you had to cover the entire cost with tolls!)

[Rockhound]

paying to hike certain trails, (perhaps even the AT) is perfectly logical and fair. charge those who would use our trails and parklands for recreational purposes a reasonable fee to raise revenue to protect those lands from mining, logging and development.

[Tipi Walter]

TIPI..
Everyone needs to remember, nothing is free!

Uh, how about oxygen? Eventually, with vast areas covered in air pollution, I guess only the rich will have clean purified air to breath in houses outfitted with fancy, expensive air cleaners. For the last 200,000 years of modern human existence, we lived on the land like we breathed the air, for free. While it's true tribal groups fought over territory and huntings lands, a great percentage of land was available for roaming and free living(just had to watch out for the grizzlies).

We've made a human choice to over-populate the country(and the world), and so we sit around and actually contemplate paying money to sleep in tents in the wild lands surrounded by tamed lands covered in sprawl, highways and millions of other people. How times have changed. Wouldn't the solution be a reduction in our numbers instead of queueing up(form a line, buddy)to pay a nightly fee and get a permit?

paying to hike certain trails, (perhaps even the AT) is perfectly logical and fair. charge those who would use our trails and parklands for recreational purposes a reasonable fee to raise revenue to protect those lands from mining, logging and development.

So, would you therefore like to see a nightly tent fee on the AT? How much? How about a flat one thousand dollar fee(with the necessary paperwork and permits)per one thruhike? Makes sense. And one more thing, how about listing every campsite you'll be staying at during your thruhike? Get a map, get a data book, get out the calendar, and have fun. Welcome to 21st Century Backpacking.

[Rockhound]

no but perhaps an honor system where you fill in your info and deposit the fee along with a copy of the permit into a lockbox. allow ridgeunners/rangers the authority to ticket those without permits making it pointless not to drop the $5 or $10 or whatever in the box at the begining. have these stations set up at each end of GSMNP, SNP, the Whites etc.... sure there will be those who try to avoid paying, and some will get away with it. such is life. overall i think you're making it out to be mission impossible. when you start looking at all the ways something can get done rather than all the ways something can't get done I think you will find you get more done.

[Rockhound]

Uh, how about oxygen? Eventually, with vast areas covered in air pollution, I guess only the rich will have clean purified air to breath in houses outfitted with fancy, expensive air cleaners. For the last 200,000 years of modern human existence, we lived on the land like we breathed the air, for free. While it's true tribal groups fought over territory and huntings lands, a great percentage of land was available for roaming and free living(just had to watch out for the grizzlies).

We've made a human choice to over-populate the country(and the world), and so we sit around and actually contemplate paying money to sleep in tents in the wild lands surrounded by tamed lands covered in sprawl, highways and millions of other people. How times have changed. Wouldn't the solution be a reduction in our numbers instead of queueing up(form a line, buddy)to pay a nightly fee and get a permit?



So, would you therefore like to see a nightly tent fee on the AT? How much? How about a flat one thousand dollar fee(with the necessary paperwork and permits)per one thruhike? Makes sense. And one more thing, how about listing every campsite you'll be staying at during your thruhike? Get a map, get a data book, get out the calendar, and have fun. Welcome to 21st Century Backpacking.

modern man 200,000 years ago? er....no. cromagnum man existed 40,000 years ago. i think modern man came a little while after that.

[Rockhound]

perhaps you should run for office. perhaps then, someday, you'll be in a position to exterminate all the useless breathers.

[Tipi Walter]

modern man 200,000 years ago? er....no. cromagnum man existed 40,000 years ago. i think modern man came a little while after that.

Anatomical, modern human: Between 150,000 and 200,000 years ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human

[Spirit Walker]

We ran into the fee/reservation issue when hiking the Great Divide Trail in Canada. Rather than pay a per night fee in the National Parks, we bought an annual National Park pass and an annual backcountry pass. Total was about $140 per person. We paid again for campsites in some of the Provincial Parks ($5 or $8, depending on where we were.) A six week hike cost us about $200 each. Not bad, considering.

Reservations were necessary in the busy areas of the national parks because of the sheer numbers of people who want to camp in the prime areas. We were at one backcountry campground that had room for 100 people, but most only had five or six tent sites. It's the same situation at Glacier or Yellowstone - in order to reduce crowding and ensure campsites, you make a reservation. Otherwise there would be 40 people vieing for the prime sites. Plus there is the bear issue - better to have people concentrated in an area with a bear pole or bear box than scattered and sleeping with their food. If you don't want to deal with reservations, then you go elsewhere and take your chances.