voice recorders

[walkin' wally]

Does anyone here have any experience using a voice recorder instead of writing a journal to capture experiences on a long section hike or a thru hike.
What are the pros and cons?

Also recording time of the device and transfer to text or disc?

I am looking to save weight and bulk and have the freedom from writing.

[Sly]

Most of the MP3 players also have voice recorder. I have no idea how much they can record, I never used the feature. One advantage would be to make "notes" while you're hiking.

[Frosty]

Does anyone here have any experience using a voice recorder instead of writing a journal to capture experiences on a long section hike or a thru hike.
What are the pros and cons?

I have an Olympus voice recorder I use to take notes to myself for my writing, and have used it to remember stuff for a journal.

For journaling, the pros are:

- Keep it on a lanyard attached to pack strap. When somehting of interest happens you can be record it in two seconds while it is fresh in your mind.

- When meeting a stranger on the trail, you can record his name and never wonder if it was Jeff or Jim.

- When taking group photos, just before taking the snapshot you can ask everyone's name left-to-right, and be able to label your photos accurately.

- My recorded has a USB built in. I can plug it into a computer and send all the files home as attachments. They give a nice audio representation of the hike. Plus you can listen to them yourself. Nothing brings back the feel of a hike like listening to a recording you made while walking.

Cons: When typing a journal entry from your audio notes, you spend a TON of time pausing and rewinding. I never think at the time of recording to leave a five second gap between sentences.

To show what it is kind of like, I will try to attach a short file I made last March, hiking with Cuffs, heading up out of Bull Gap at the southern end of the Pinhoti trail. Typically, I would have half a dozen or so such files for each day, maybe more.

*******************

Well I cannot attach the file. But take my word for it: they're pretty cool.

[Uncle Silly]

Most of the MP3 players also have voice recorder. I have no idea how much they can record, I never used the feature.

They record to the same storage area where your MP3s are stored (probably a separate folder in the same filesystem). If you've filled up your player with MP3s, you won't have any room for recordings. But if you leave some space, you'll have room. If your MP3 player has a quality setting, set it low for your notes -- 32 or 64kbps; at low quality you can fit a lot of recording in a little space.

If you're planning to take a lot of notes, you might consider carrying a separate MP3 just for that, or get a player with 2gb or more and only fill half with MP3s to listen to. As a rough estimate, assume you record an average of 5min a day over a 6-month thru-hike. That's 900 miuntes of recording. You'd need 900mb (almost 1gb) for 128k MP3s; maybe 4-500mb for low-quality.

If you find yourself at a music jam at camp and decide to record it, use a higher quality setting than you do for your notes. (And get names & addresses for the musicians so you can send them a copy!)



Players record to MP3; most will have a quality setting that controls how much room a recording takes up. Some may record alternately to WAV (super high quality), WMA (Windows Media files) or AAC (iTunes-type files), but those are less common options. I recommend using MP3 for compatibility purposes, but that's me.

WAV (cd-quality, meaning 44.1khz, 16-bit, stereo) is huge; it takes up about 10mb per minute of recording. (5mb per minute if mono instead of stereo.) Not all players will offer this, but some do.

MP3 recording is more common and is probably the default on most players. The size of the recording here will also vary. Standard quality (128kbps) gets about 1mb per minute. Higher quality means bigger files; lower quality means smaller files. Again, for voice notes you don't need high quality, so set the quality low to get the most time out of your available space.



Once you're home, you can transfer/download the recordings to your PC and manage them there (much like transferring pictures from a digital camera). How to do this mostly depends on the software that comes with your player. If your player appears under "My Computer" as a drive letter, you can even find the recording files there (look for a "Recordings" folder) and copy them over to your C: drive or Desktop like any other files. Though some players don't get a drive letter and make you use whatever management software comes with the player to do the transfer.

I don't know of any automatic transcription software, but you can always transcribe yourself. (As a side benefit, this is great practice for your typing skills.) You can also edit the recordings into a podcast or something, or add clips to the audio track of a video (maybe the slideshow of your hike photos). As far as "transferring to disc", most CD burner software, and many music players (eg iTunes) will burn MP3s to an audio CD. I personally don't see this as useful, but some may find a need for it.

[Sly]

Wow, you guys not only know your stuff, you have to be great typers!

[Hammock Hanger]

Stumpy used one so I thought I would give it a try. I hated it. I found that my journals came out stiff and rehearsed. - I sent the contraption home and went back to writing from my memories, which were much better even if I forgot a few names.

[gaga]

i use this model: --Sony IC recorder icd-b100-- it weights 1 oz whiteout 2AAA batteries it is digital and is easy to operate, has a folder button and an easy menu ,many more extras. 29,99$ in val-mart , i`m sure there are better models out there , i`m just happy whit this one, so be careful what are you talking on the trail next spring -

[Uncle Silly]

I have an Olympus voice recorder I use to take notes to myself for my writing, and have used it to remember stuff for a journal.

What's the capacity on your Olympus? I assume it's a megabyte or gigabyte rating? Does it give you any quality options for the recording?

Cons: When typing a journal entry from your audio notes, you spend a TON of time pausing and rewinding. I never think at the time of recording to leave a five second gap between sentences.

That'd be a good practice to get into. I'd try using a sound editor program for transcribing, not a media player; rewinding, or jumping back a couple of seconds in the file, would be easier.

Do you use keyboard shortcuts? If you're playing back the file on a media player, some of them use the Spacebar to pause and unpause. On Windows, Alt-Tab switches between applications; seems like you could use those two keyboard shortcuts to flip between your document editor and your media player quickly.

Wow, you guys not only know your stuff, you have to be great typers!

I don't journal this way; I use an MP3 player to record music jams here at home, then use a sound file editor to split the recording into tracks and make cds from them. Similar process, but less typing. I get all my typing practice here at Whiteblaze!

[Tennessee Viking]

I have an RCA DVR. It records about 9 hours on HI quality, and about 12 hours on low quality. It also has a auto record feature. The downside of mine is that it doesn't have a USB connection. So I have to dump everything to my computer, then have it convert to either MP3 or WAV. So it takes twice as long.

Find one that has a large capacity with USB connection.

[Frosty]

What's the capacity on your Olympus? I assume it's a megabyte or gigabyte rating? Does it give you any quality options for the recording?

It's the WS-100. $89 at the time. I bought it three years ago, and I'm sure there are better and cheaper out there now, but the playback quality is good. It is 64MB. 27 hours in the lower quality setting. I usually use the high quality setting for voice recording while hiking because otherwise the sounds of hiking ( brushing of pants legs, feet on dead leaves, me sucking wind) intrude on the playback. Being a writer geek, I also carry a 2 pound word processor with a full-size keyboard. Most of my writing isn't journaling, at least not journaling to share with others.

That'd be a good practice to get into. (leaving a few seconds between sentences to make transcribing easier. I'd try using a sound editor program for transcribing, not a media player; rewinding, or jumping back a couple of seconds in the file, would be easier.

Do you use keyboard shortcuts? If you're playing back the file on a media player, some of them use the Spacebar to pause and unpause. On Windows, Alt-Tab switches between applications; seems like you could use those two keyboard shortcuts to flip between your document editor and your media player quickly.

Mine records in WMA format. It might do others, I don't know. WMA file work for me. Sliding the battery compartment off exposes a USB connector. I transfer my files to my laptop and play them back there. There may be short cuts, I dont' know. I just let in play on the Windows player while I type.

To answer something you mentioned early, Nuance Software (formerly Dragon) has Naturally SPeaking, a voice to text transcriber. It is supposed to work with some recorders (the WS-100 is one). I have the software but haven't used it yet because it takes a while to "train" the software in your own speech. (You read text that it supplies, and since it knows what you are trying to say, it can match your speech patterns and regional accents to words).

The voice files are managed easily on the recorder, as are all other files. I use it like a external flash drive. At artist colonies/retreats there are mostly Macs supplied for writers/artists, and I always have problems with the printers. I write on my laptop, transfer MSWord files to my recorder, plug the recorder in a Mac, and am able to print my scribblings.

If you go to a Barnes and Noble, Bordes, or Books a Million, the December issue of Ellery Queen Mystery Magazine (on sale until Nov 7 or so) has a story (page 122) I wrote in which I used the recorder quite a bit. It is a Private Eye story, not about hiking, alas.

[Frosty]

Stumpy used one so I thought I would give it a try. I hated it. I found that my journals came out stiff and rehearsed. - I sent the contraption home and went back to writing from my memories, which were much better even if I forgot a few names.

Yeah, being too factual always gets in the way of a good narrative. With friends or family, if I am telling a good story, my wife always interrupts and says, "That's not how it happened," and supplies the actual events, which invariably are not nearly as interesting as my version

My best journal entries are based on fuzzy memories, which pretty much describes all my memories these days. My once sharp mind is degrading, and often if I don't write something down right then, or record it right away, the idea is gone. Growing old is hell. Still a lot better than the alternative, though....

[walkin' wally]

Yeah, being too factual always gets in the way of a good narrative. With friends or family, if I am telling a good story, my wife always interrupts and says, "That's not how it happened," and supplies the actual events, which invariably are not nearly as interesting as my version

My best journal entries are based on fuzzy memories, which pretty much describes all my memories these days. My once sharp mind is degrading, and often if I don't write something down right then, or record it right away, the idea is gone. Growing old is hell. Still a lot better than the alternative, though....

I am right behind you Frosty. I have experienced everything you just said except the alternative part.

Thanks for all the input guys and girls.

Hammock Hanger, I don't know if my writing skills are very worthwhile to begin with and as Frosty said at least I could capture the moment as best I could before things are forgotten.

Thanks again

[walkin' wally]

I should have prefaced my first post by saying that I don't want to do any video, pictures, or music with the device. Although I like all three.

What I was hoping to do is record the events of the day in my tent in the evening so I don't think I will be dealing with the recorder during the day. I guess I would have the recorder off and in my pack.

I am hoping to use this for the duration (hopefully) of a thru hike so I think I need a lot of capacity and battery life?

I would appreciate any more comments

Thanks

WW

[faarside]

I have an Olympus voice recorder I use to take notes to myself for my writing, and have used it to remember stuff for a journal.

For journaling, the pros are:

- Keep it on a lanyard attached to pack strap. When somehting of interest happens you can be record it in two seconds while it is fresh in your mind.

- When meeting a stranger on the trail, you can record his name and never wonder if it was Jeff or Jim.

- When taking group photos, just before taking the snapshot you can ask everyone's name left-to-right, and be able to label your photos accurately.

- My recorded has a USB built in. I can plug it into a computer and send all the files home as attachments. They give a nice audio representation of the hike. Plus you can listen to them yourself. Nothing brings back the feel of a hike like listening to a recording you made while walking.

Cons: When typing a journal entry from your audio notes, you spend a TON of time pausing and rewinding. I never think at the time of recording to leave a five second gap between sentences.

To show what it is kind of like, I will try to attach a short file I made last March, hiking with Cuffs, heading up out of Bull Gap at the southern end of the Pinhoti trail. Typically, I would have half a dozen or so such files for each day, maybe more.

*******************

Well I cannot attach the file. But take my word for it: they're pretty cool.

Great review of pros/cons, Frosty!

I use a combination of paper tablet and my Dell Axim. For me, most "basic" trail notes go directly onto paper; however, I sometimes feel I need to capture a "stream of thoughts" not conveniently capturable via pen/paper. During those times, I use the voice recorder feature in my Axim, which I also use as a book reader, MP3 player, and map respository.

[Uncle Silly]

I am hoping to use this for the duration (hopefully) of a thru hike so I think I need a lot of capacity and battery life?

Do some research on the currently-for-sale models of Voice Recorders. Look at (1) Price, (2) Capacity (in mega- or gigabytes), (3) Battery type, and (4) USB or not.

(Don't worry about battery life; most of these will last a while on fresh batteries, just make sure you get something that takes AA or AAA so you can carry extras and swap them out on the trail when you need to. Some models may use proprietary, rechargable, non-user-replacable batteries; avoid these.)

Once you've done that, do some research on small MP3 players. Look at the same parameters (Price, Capacity, Battery type; all should have USB capability).

I bet you'll find that the MP3 players give you lots more capacity per dollar.

[Hammock Hanger]

I am right behind you Frosty. I have experienced everything you just said except the alternative part.

Thanks for all the input guys and girls.

Hammock Hanger, I don't know if my writing skills are very worthwhile to begin with and as Frosty said at least I could capture the moment as best I could before things are forgotten.

Thanks again

I am in the boat with ya guys.. what were we talking about!!!

WW you have to do whatever works best for you. Enjoy and have fun with it. Sue/HH

[Frosty]

however, I sometimes feel I need to capture a "stream of thoughts" not conveniently capturable via pen/paper. During those times, I use the voice recorder feature in my Axim

Yes, those moments are great to listen to afterwards.

I could not attach any voice recrodings because WMA files aren't allowed, but Uncle Silly offered to post them on a website and provide a direct link.

I am going to send him three:
1) The second day of an awful Northville-Placid Trail hike. It was raining and had been raining for over a week. Streams were thigh high and flowing fast.
2) The first recording of a Pinhoti hike with Cuffs, recorded about five-ten minutes after we left Bull Gap
3) Recorded after watering up at the little stream just before the side trail to Hawk Mtn Shelter with enough water to make a dry camp around Sassafras Mtn.

Non-believers in such devices just try these three. You can see how they would help re-live the hike months or years later.

[Uncle Silly]

Direct links:
http://ibiblio.org/quack/tmp/wb/ws_10062npt.wma
http://ibiblio.org/quack/tmp/wb/hia_10012at.wma
http://ibiblio.org/quack/tmp/wb/ws_10005apt.wma

This was the order they appeared on the email. Hope it's the right 1, 2, 3!

For some tech stats:
ws_10062npt.wma: 930kb, 3:52, 32kbps
hia_10012at.wma: 851kb, 3:32, 32kbps
ws_10005apt.wma: 250kb, 1:01, 32kbps


For those interested in estimating time & space requirements, you can probably take these as a reasonable approximation to equivalent MP3s: that is, at 32kbps quality, you get 3-4minutes per megabyte.

[Nightwalker]

For those interested in estimating time & space requirements, you can probably take these as a reasonable approximation to equivalent MP3s: that is, at 32kbps quality, you get 3-4minutes per megabyte.

As opposed to 10 MB per minute with WAV!

I have an RCA digital voice recorder that I got at Wal-Mart. It uses 2 AAA batteries and has a USB jack. It cost $28.00.

The limiting factor on both recorders that I've had so far was number of recordings, not hours of recording. They've both had 4 folders with the ability to record 99 files in each folder.

This one records in the VOC format, but comes with software to convert it as it transfers each recording across. It's very easy to use.

[Uncle Silly]

The limiting factor on both recorders that I've had so far was number of recordings, not hours of recording. They've both had 4 folders with the ability to record 99 files in each folder.

This one records in the VOC format, but comes with software to convert it as it transfers each recording across. It's very easy to use.

I'm suspicious of that sort of claim (limited number of recordings but unlimited recording time). It's just not physically possible. More than likely there's some number of hours listed in teensy print on the package.

*shrug* Whether this is important or not, well, depends on how you use the recorder. If you make 1 entry per day, over a 6-mo thru-hike, you'll end up with 180 files. 2 entries per day gives you 360 files. So far, so good; both of those scenarios fit into this recorder's known limit. But much more than 2 entries per day won't fit -- you need more files than the device will support. (We're talking averages here, so 2.1 entries might, but 3 is obviously out).

I searched around looking for the recorder Nightwalker described; looks like it's the RP5030 (64mb, $47) or maybe the RP5020 (32mb, $30). I'm not sure because one's the right price (about $28) and one supports 4 folders of 99 files each (the 64mb). Anyway, the description for the 32mb claims up to 15 hrs of record time; the 64mb claims up to 18 hrs. (Odd? Maybe... the 64mb claims to record to MP3, while the 32mb doesn't mention a format, so these numbers might be reasonable.)

Nightwalker, which model did you get?