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  1. #1
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    Default Some thoughts on winter backpacking

    With winter now full in hand, trails empty, shelters become spacious, and the land presents a much different look and feel than in the spring, summer, or fall. With the leaves off the trees and the bushes emptied, one can see the true extent and shape of the land that one walks through. Without others around, the solitude that is missing from the popular seasons can be found in abundance. Winter is a fabulous time to go out backpacking, provided you are prepared for the logisitical and technical difficulties that separate it from backpacking in the warmer months. For the rest of this post, I am going to try to describe a few techniques that I have found helpful for backpacking during moderate winter weather. By moderate, I mean daytime temperatures no lower than 10 degrees (F, of course), with night time temperatures not lower than 0. Snow and ice, of course, are allowed, but not to the point where real crampons or snow shoes are necessary. I am focusing on these conditions, because I can rely upon finding them where I usually go backpacking in the winter (the Smokys) and because I don't have much experience on snowshoes or in extended sub-zero temperatures. I may miss some points that others might want to add (please do) or state things that others disagree with (please point these out) and what I am stating is what has worked for me. For those who don't want to read much further, here is short summary of what follows:

    1) It is easy to stay warm while hiking, much harder while in camp. Have dry, warm clothes to change into at the end of the day.

    2) You won't drink enough cold water to stay hydrated, so make a lot of warm liquids in camp.

    3) The days are short, the nights long. Plan accordingly and eat alot.

    A general principle for winter backpacking is that it is easy to stay warm while you are moving. Carrying a pack up and down hills generates a lot of body heat. However, staying warm when you are sedentary (i.e, in camp) is more difficult if you are not prepared. The body heat that you were generating while hiking is also going to generate sweat. That sweat is going to chill you to the bone when you stop. One solution is to regulate how much you sweat by wearing appropriate clothes while you hike. Here are my hiking clothes for the winter time:

    Andiamo Skinz (underwear)
    MEC Ferrata II Pants (made of dryskin)
    MEC Warmwear top
    Moonstone Evolution Jacket (softshell, worn if it is below freezing)
    MEC Earband
    Fox River Polypro liner gloves
    Running socks
    Brooks Tresspass Trailrunners (or boots and gaiters if lots of snow)

    The Warmwear top has a partial zip and allows me to vent well. The earband can go over my ears for warmth or act like a headband for partial warmth. This set up allows me to cruise up hill most of the day and still arrive in camp not too sweaty. For my normal breaks of 20 minutes, I'll be warm for most of the break but decidedly cool at the end. For a longer lunch break, I'll need to pull out a down jacket (see later) to stay warm. During a break, a sit pad (a square of an old foam sleeping pad) is a delight to have.

    Arriving in camp, the first thing I'll do is drop my pack and fetch water. I'll still be warm in When I arrive in camp and can easily get my night's water supply. Once back from fetching water, a liter of water goes into a pot and I start it heating. I then generally will put on:

    MEC Midweight Thermal tights
    MEC Midweight Thermal top
    MEC Cygnus 700 Down jacket
    Wigwam Polypro hat
    Smartwool Socks
    Sierra Designs Down Booties

    If it is supposed to be very cold, I'll bring along some old Campmor fleece pants. A pair of Black Diamond Guide Gloves come with as well.

    By the time I get all this bulky clothing on, the water is coming close to a boil and I'll make soup. When it is below freezing, it is pretty hard to drink enough cold water to stay hydrated. So, drink hot liquids instead. A liter of soup really fills you up, so make something brothy and light: You are after liquid here, not calories. After drinking the soup, I'll put on water for my main meal and unpack. Meals need to be big and you should really have two during the night: A first, main course, and a second, lighter one before bed. After my first dinner, I'll put another liter of water on for tea. Again, I'm rehydrating here. About an hour before going to bed, I'll consume a few more calories, like a large chocolate bar. The idea is to get a few more calories to burn for the evening: The more calories you have in you, the warmer you will be. Wearing a hat to bed helps keep you warm as well.

    Before you go to bed, make sure to put your fuel in your sleeping bag with you, along with lighters. Neither will work well in the cold morning if you don't keep them warm at night. If you have put on dry socks, try putting your damp ones underneath your sleeping pad and the ground. They won't dry out, but neither will they be frozen in the morning. In the morning, another liter of tea with cold breakfast is a good way to get going.

    A special consideration for winter hiking is the lack of daylight. In the cold, it is hard to start hiking before 9 in the morning. It takes a while to convince yourself to get out of your warm sleeping bag and drink down the hot tea or chocolate or coffee. At the other end of the day, it gets dark soon. You'll want to be in camp at least an hour before dark, but 2 is better. In the Smokys, this means you'll need to be in camp by 4, giving you a maximum of 7 hours of hiking. For me, I can cover 15 miles comfortably in this time span, but others might cover more or less. Hiking at night isn't much fun and it gets a lot colder. For comparison, a standard summer hiking day would see me cover 30 miles in a day, so mileage drops a lot in the winter time.

  2. #2
    Registered User Streamweaver's Avatar
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    2) You won't drink enough cold water to stay hydrated, so make a lot of warm liquids in camp.

    I personally drink more water in the winter than any other time of the year,and the colder the better!! But I do love my tea,cocoa,hot cider etc!!! Just remember though that caffeine(sp?) acts as a diuretic and can actually work against you if you are trying to rehydrate. Thats not to say you shouldnt drink any caffeine,just drink it in moderation. Suger can also dehydrate you because when sugar is ingested water is drawn from your body tissue into your stomach to dilute it. Though I would rather eat my sugar and chase it with plenty of water than to do without the extra calories to help keep warm!!! Just something to consider because I get dehydrated very easily so I watch my fluids constantly!!! And when properly hydrated you will be able to stay much warmer !!! Welp thats my 2cents. Thanks for the good info Chris!!! Streamweaver
    "Theres is no real hope of traveling perfectly light in the mountains.It is good to try,as long as you realize that,like proving a unified field theory,mastering Kanji,or routinely brewing the perfect cup of coffee,the game can never be won." Smoke Blanchard

  3. #3

    Default Winter tips

    Lots of good tips Chris. Hydration is very important. With the temperature ranges you specified, care should be taken to keep water from freezing. A solidly dependable water bottle is a must. Although I don't keep my fuel in my bag, (white gas, fewer cold weather problems), I do keep a water bottle in my bag to keep it from freezing. I like to use my wide mouth Nalgene in the winter. Narrow openings, such as on a platypus, tend to freeze, so I do not use these for overnight water storage. For extra comfort, I boil some water before bedtime and place it in the Nalgene. Keeps the feet nice and warm. Alternatively, store the Nalgene upside down in a boot. If it freezes, the ice will be on the bottom when flipped. (Unless frozen solid.) During the evening, I do use a platypus to hold water, but I keep this inside my jacket to prevent freezing. Always be careful with the caps when doing this.

    I like to get the tent up first thing. Then no matter what happens, I have shelter. But getting water heated to eat with first is also a good idea, because food=warmth. If with a buddy, split the tasks.

    I do two dinners too, plus multiple hot drinks. If that candy bar before bed has some nuts in it, all the better, because the proteins take longer to digest. I even keep a candy bar close should I wake up cold in the middle of the night.

    A jacket with several inside (mesh) pockets is really helpful to keep items warm, such as lighters, water, and snacks.

  4. #4
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    Chris: re you tenting or using shelters in winter? Also, if tenting, do you cook inside the tent the following morning? Thanks.
    "Just trying to keep life simple."

  5. #5
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    What are Ferrata II Pants and where can I view them on the internet? I plugged it in Gooble and nothing came up. Also searched for Ferrata II, nothing.

    Who is MEC?

  6. #6
    Registered User Streamweaver's Avatar
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    MEC MEC Is Mountain Equipment Co op A British Columbia gear company. Streamweaver
    "Theres is no real hope of traveling perfectly light in the mountains.It is good to try,as long as you realize that,like proving a unified field theory,mastering Kanji,or routinely brewing the perfect cup of coffee,the game can never be won." Smoke Blanchard

  7. #7
    Hammock and Bicycle camping Crash's Avatar
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    GREAT THREAD.
    I've been thinking about down pants but its hard to find- at least at a reasonable price.
    When the Trail calls you,
    its not on your cellphone!

  8. #8
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    Thumbs up Cold weather tips

    Thanks Chris and all the others for these suggestions / advice. My wife and I day hike all the time in winter but haven't tried camping yet. These tips may, probably not , but may entice us to try it this winter. The coldest I've ever camped was an 18 degree night / early morning with the Boy Scouts.
    Uncle Wayne

  9. #9
    6,000 miler free speech okay I'll try it!
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    Question hello need advice

    What a wonderful new site. You guys are so friendly and knowledeable here. I'm new to the site and I want to say thanks for the winter info. I left thruhikers.com because there were so many rude people ridiculing every one.
    Does any one have opions on the best place on the at for winter hiking and will a zero degree get me by on most nights or will I need a -10 -15 etc.

  10. #10
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    Default

    During my winter trips, I generally will spend two nights in the backcountry, with one in a shelter (if in the Smokys) and the other under a tarp. When the weather looks really bad, I'll bring my bivy sack (very basic) for a bit of additional warmth and protection. Cooking takes place under the tarp.

    MEC is, as posted above, a Canadian Co-op which sells really good gear at low prices, with the additional benefit that you pay in Canadian pesos. That sounded a lot like an ad (except for the pesos part), but there stuff is good. The Ferrata pants are made out of Dryskin, which offers more warmth than regular nylon-poly ones are really make me look cool while hiking.

  11. #11

    Default Sleeping Bag

    I have used a 20F bag and a fleece liner for deep winter camping. I will eventually get a strictly winter bag. A zero degree bag should be plenty adequate for the Southern half of the AT. I would be careful in NH and ME though, there would be other gear considerations required. Note that in winter, a good insulating pad is necessary. I use a thermarest ultralight pad and a foam pad together.

    I think all of the AT is nice in the winter. The lack of leaves provides much better views.

  12. #12
    Yes, I know I mis-spelled "Hamster"...
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    Great tips Chris.

    The past couple years I've done alot of snowshoeing, and some winter camping in groups. I guess I'd like to throw a few pointers as well.

    Almost everyone is concerned with pack-weight, and while leaving something behind in the summer may make for an unpleasent night, leaving something behind in the winter can be dangerous. Common-sense though.

    I have found that in colder weather bringing extra layers of clothing is often better than a warmer rated sleeping-bag. Just as an example, instead of bringing a -20*F rated bag, bring a 0*F or 15*F bag along with a down/synthetic jacket and pants. This gives you more versatility, especially around camp. This also makes for a pleasent night when the temps aren't going to be as cold as you thought. Personally, I'm lucky to be a warm person (which sucks in the summer when I'm always hot), and have a fairly modest winter system. This is what I use for weather between -10*F and 32*F not including the windchill.

    While Hiking...
    - Thick Merino Wool Socks (1 Worn, 1 Reserve)
    - Expedition Weight Polyproylene Pants & Shirt
    - 300 Series Fleece Jacket
    - Lightweight Fast-Drying Supplex-Nylon Convertible Pants/Shorts
    - 300 Series Fleece Hat w/Windstopper Membrane for Ears
    - Fleece Insulated Winter Hiking Boots, Not uninsulated 3-season boots!
    - Goggles
    - Gore-Tex Pac-Lite Jacket & Pants for Wind/Wet Mix Precipitation

    Camp/Sleep
    - +20*F Down Bag (Although I may switch to a Polarguard Delta bag)
    - 300 Series Fleece Pants
    - 300 Series Fleece Mittens (MUCH warmer than gloves)
    - 300 Series Fleece Balaclava (Sometimes used during day if it's real cold.
    - Last year I used a Polarguard 3D vest, But this year I'm switching to a Down Vest

    Also remember that a tent tends to be warmer than a tarp/trail shelter, and astronomically warmer in windy conditions.

    I second the bringing of the water bottle inside your sleeping bag tactic. As Alligator pointed out, boiling the next days water the night before and storing it in your bag makes a great foot-warmer but make sure the cap is secure!

    If you plan on melting snow for your water, make sure that you bring enough fuel. Gasoline stoves do a much better job at this as well.
    "A man builds a fine house; and now he has a master, and a task for life; he is to furnish, watch, show it, and keep it in repair, the rest of his days".
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    GA-ME Someday (Maybe '06?)
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  13. #13
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    Default Mountain Equipment Coop

    I am the MEC guru...the queen of MEC actually! For some correct info....it's just like REI but in Canada. I think there's stores from the Maritimes to British Columbia (note....contrary to the previous poster who said it was only a BC. store). It's a well-run coop....meaning that things are as cheap as they can make them and no one is scamming you. They stand behind what they sell and almost all my gear for my upcoming AT hike is from this store. I still have fleece pants, jackets, hats, etc. from this store hanging around 5 years later after some heavy use. Impressive! The website is www.mec.ca It would probably be not too bad of a deal at all for you Americans out there with the exchange rate.

  14. #14

    Default Mec

    MEC is a great resource for those of us in the States. Great quality at low prices, even better with the exchange rate. Shipping is slow to get to us though, so plan ahead. One sad note is that some items are not available to US customers, but previously were. I think the major manufacturers may have placed pressure on MEC to not ship certain items to US addresses. I got an Arc'teryx pack for $100 (US) cheaper than anywhere in the US. It's no longer shipped outside of Canada. But in MEC's favor, they do ship their brand here, and the quality is always excellent!

  15. #15

    Default Partial gear list

    This list can handle down to 0 degrees (probably more if necessary). I could use a warmer bag though, so I would be unworried in negative temps.

    Hiking

    2-Ply Gore-tex shell (pit zips, chest zip).
    Full side zip shell pants (2/3 breathability of Goretex)
    Polypro long johns (Wal-mart brand)
    Polypro thermal top (Wal-mart brand)
    Fleece headband
    300 wt. Fleece windstopper hat
    200 wt fleece gloves
    neck gaitor
    liner socks
    regular hiking socks

    Camp
    Sierra Designs Wild bill bag (20F) not recommended, has no draft collar.
    Campmor microfleece liner bag
    MEC PL1 vest
    MEC Expedition wt top (underwear)
    MEC Expedition wt bottoms
    Golite Arctic Night Parka (wicked overkill)
    Duofold turtle neck top
    Fleece balaclava
    300 wt mittens
    gore-tex mitten shells.
    Fleece socks.
    Fleece booties.

    The neck gaitor, fleece headband, fleece hat, balaclava, gloves and mittens all provide numerous options for moisture management. Hats and gloves tend to get wet, thus back-ups are important. Two hats are really a necessity. I avoid sweating at all costs, even hiking slightly cold if necessary. Count out any clothing worn during hiking as night wear. I don’t typically wear the polypro long johns unless it is like 20 or lower all day. I’m a pretty warm hiker, shorts down to about 40 with a long sleeve top.

    Safe to me is not having to get in your bag to stay warm.

    Love the fleece neck gaitor. I will tarp down to about 20-25F alone, but if with a buddy, I have a good four season tent. Tents will add about 8-10 degrees and block the wind. Having a vestibule or two is nice, especially for cooking (outside door open, only as necessary, please be careful).

    For those interested in winter backpacking, start off with some late fall runs and bring extra clothes. If possible, go out monthly. Once through a complete winter season, you’ll have a good idea as to what works for you. Also, try to go with someone experienced.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackiebolen
    I am the MEC guru...the queen of MEC actually! For some correct info....it's just like REI but in Canada. I think there's stores from the Maritimes to British Columbia (note....contrary to the previous poster who said it was only a BC. store). It's a well-run coop....meaning that things are as cheap as they can make them and no one is scamming you. They stand behind what they sell and almost all my gear for my upcoming AT hike is from this store. I still have fleece pants, jackets, hats, etc. from this store hanging around 5 years later after some heavy use. Impressive! The website is www.mec.ca It would probably be not too bad of a deal at all for you Americans out there with the exchange rate.
    You need a $5 dollar life membership to buy things there. Besides trying to keep prices as low as possible MEC also trys to be socially and environmentally consious (ie making fleece out of recycles pop bottles, converting old warehouses to make new stores, selling clothing made out of organic cotton, packs not sewn by children chained to sewing machines). Hey Jackie we definatly do have a bunch of MEC stores out "east" - one in Halifax and two in Ontario. Plus one opening soon in Montréal. Haven't been to Nova Scotia but the two in Ontario are great. (I was just in the one in Toronto Tuesday)

    I'd like to ask a question myself to all you Americans, is REI a co-op (do you have to be a member to buy stuff and are they out to make money) and what is Campfor (Camphor spelling is not my thing)?

    Thanks

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alligator
    MEC is a great resource for those of us in the States.
    Hey watch out alligator, MEC gear is how we Canadians identify each other abroad. (we needed something new after "you guys" started sewing Canadian flags you your backpacks )

  18. #18
    Registered User Streamweaver's Avatar
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    note....contrary to the previous poster who said it was only a BC. store

    Hey Jackie Bolen, Show me where I said it was only a BC company!! The article on another site said they were out of British Colombia so thats what I posted. You got a problem with that then BITE ME!! Streamweaver
    "Theres is no real hope of traveling perfectly light in the mountains.It is good to try,as long as you realize that,like proving a unified field theory,mastering Kanji,or routinely brewing the perfect cup of coffee,the game can never be won." Smoke Blanchard

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kaytee
    I'd like to ask a question myself to all you Americans, is REI a co-op (do you have to be a member to buy stuff and are they out to make money) and what is Campfor (Camphor spelling is not my thing)?

    Thanks
    You do not have to be a member at REI to buy, but you do need to be a member to get a discount of 8%, 10% if you have their credit card. It costs $10.00 to get a membership I think. I do not know the answer about their profit motives.

    Campmor (with an 'm') is a store in New Jersey with an online site and a mail-order catalog. Frequently the cheapest place to find stuff and a very extensive catalog.

  20. #20
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    Default sorry...I misunderstood

    Hey Jackie Bolen, Show me where I said it was only a BC company!! The article on another site said they were out of British Colombia so thats what I posted. You got a problem with that then BITE ME!! Streamweaver

    No need to get nasty Think happy thoughts sunshine

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