New WM bag questions ....new to down.

[Runsalone]

Hi all! I just purchessed a WM Alpinelite super and was wondering if it would be okay to use a 7X15 stuff sack instead of the larger one provided. It seems to be the middle ground between not feeling like im taking full advantage of the space savings a down bag can offer, and squishing the bejeezus out of it with a compression bag. I plan on using this bag for my thru attempt this march so Im wondering what long term effects there might be. I will be buying a new smaller lighter pack based around alot of the changes Im making in my gear now.

This is my first down bag, and I figured why skimp here and went all out with the WM. So I want to take good care of it so it will take care of me.

What say ye?

By the way ......what a great resource this site is and what a great group of folks here!! Look forward to meeting some of you this spring!

[ScottP]

I'm not sure about long term damage, but a down bag can take a long time to loft back up if you overcompress it. I'd just use the stuff sack that WM gave you (or a waterproof drybag that is about the same size).

[Tipi Walter]

Funny, I just used my new WM bag on a recent 7 day November trip, so we have something in common. I went with a slightly LARGER stuff sack and know why: Cuz I don't like to overcompress. And why would anyone want or need to mash it more than necessary? And forget about a compression bag, it's not meant to be compacted like trash. There are zippers, baffling, all fragile, not to mention the high dollar down clusters. The less a down bag is stuffed, the longer the loft lasts.

[Dirtygaiters]

If you use a compression sack and pull the buckles to reasonable tightness, you can get the packed size quite small without really damaging the loft. There is such a thing as compressed bags taking longer to regain their loft than loosely packed bags. As to long term effects, I haven't noticed any between mine or my brother's and he regularly compresses his bag; whereas I normally use a non-compression stuffsack. The owner of Western Mountaineering mentioned in a Practical Backpacking podcast that as long as you're not compressing the down to its maximum, and as long as you're not leaving the bag compressed for more than a few days at a time, the down should be fine. However, depending on what backpack you're using (frameless packs like the Golite Jam2 don't feel good when packed with compression sacks), a regular stuffsack could be just the ticket. Compression sacks tend to weigh about 4x more than a regular stuffsack anyway. For my own use, I've come up with a general guideline that if I can fit a down garment or bag into a stuffsack just using my hands, and without the aid of compression buckles, then the stuffsack probably isn't so small that it will cause problems with the loft. However, again, there's some variance depending on the backpack you're using because the larger the stuffsack, when you pack it into a frameless pack, the easier it will be for the soft goods inside it to fill into the pack's natural contours and give the pack optimum rigidity.

[Dirtygaiters]

And why would anyone want or need to mash it more than necessary? And forget about a compression bag, it's not meant to be compacted like trash. There are zippers, baffling, all fragile, not to mention the high dollar down clusters. The less a down bag is stuffed, the longer the loft lasts.

People like to compress sleeping bags because if you don't compress them to some degree, it's almost impossible to fit the rest of your gear into your pack. A sleeping bag is just one thing that has to fit into a backpack. Next comes food, water (on dry stretches of trail), and clothing (on colder trips)--this is not to mention that in the colder months you'd be using a bulkier sleeping bag--and a tent, if you're a tent user. Of course, on well watered trail, in moderate to warm parts of the season, and provided your backpack is large enough--for non-tent users, and for people who strap their pads to the outside of their packs--I agree that bags don't really need to be compressed. A large enough food bag can even do the work of a compressing stuffsack by pushing downward on a loosely packed sleeping bag. But, when cold weather comes into play, and when lots of water needs to be carried, pack space isn't as easily had...

[Runsalone]

Hmm.....Let me try some clarity.

Bag comes with 8X16ish- bag fits easily

I got a 7X15- bag fits snugly dosnt seem excessivly tight significantly smaller package.

Got a compression sack-8Xwhatever.....like 10" when compressed ....Do NOT like it feels like squishing th besquiglies out of a expensive bag.


Can I use the 7X15 day after day on a thru hike or should I come up with some other options.

Didnt mean to be so roundabout in my question before. To repeat I did not like the compression sack. But like the snugger more compact 7X15.

[1/4 moon]

i would imagine the 7x15 to hold the bag just fine and not overcompress. what pack are you using? when on my thru this year i found it easier to line my pack with a compactor bag and just stuff the bag into the bottom of my pack. it never got wet plus it saved the weight of another stuff sack

[Runsalone]

Ive been considering the nimbus ozone, or something similarly sized. I want a lighter pack(3 #ish) but retain the ability to avoid resupply for longer durations if I wish. Right now I have about a ten year old Kelty coyote.

[springerfever]

1/4 moons' idea is a good one. On a thru-hike your pack is going to have to handle all sorts of volumes...from 4500 c.i. leaving a trail town full of resupply, to 2000 c.i. coming out of the Smokies down to Davenport Gap. By putting thesleeping bag in the bottom of the pack in a waterproof bag (a mylar turkey roasting bag is a cheap/strong choice) you allow the sleeping bag to fill the voids in the pack and carry better.

Also, its one thing to stuff your sleeping bag into a compact tube in your living room; quite another when you are packing up and the temperature is well below freezing.

Just before some knee surgery, I got a great deal on a GG Nimbus Meridian. Haven't had a chance to use it yet, but some great features and it fits me like a glove due to its wide-range harness adjustability. Might want to check it out.

[Lyle]

I third 1/4 moon's idea. I have forgone any stuff sack since starting to use a frameless pack several years ago. Garbage bag in bottom, sleeping bag and my "must stay dry" clothes in the garbage bag, then loosely closed so the air can escape, but the opening stays towards the center of the pack to keep any seeping water out.

Have never gotten anything wet (even during the PA floods in 2006), and it always compresses just as much as needed to fit everything in the pack. As springerfever mentions, you will be packing different volumes, so leaving the sleeping bag relatively loose works great as a filler when needed. Plus, the bag isn't confined to a the set shape of the stuffsack, so it does a better job filling the nooks and crannies of the bottom of the pack better.

[Sly]

I also agree a larger stuff sack is better, With a full pack the down will crush accordingly.

[Runsalone]

You guys are quickly talking me into just stuffing it in the pack. That really does make a lot of sense. What kinds of pack liners? Do I keep hearing "contractor bags" referenced or "compactor "? I have lots of contractor trash bags for work but I dont think thats what Ive been reading.

[Rambler]

Compactor bags are the kind used in household trash compactors. The bagare a bit thicker than a standard heavy ply garbage bag. For the long haul, I prefer an extra large silnylon stuff bag. My down quilt fits comfortably in a 10L bag, no need for a compression bag, ie. a stuff sack with straps to compress it smaller.

[Dirtygaiters]

Along those lines, Integral Designs makes a silnylon backpack liner that weighs 2 ounces (size small) and Sea to Summit makes a seam-taped silnylon drysack that weighs 2.6 ounces (size small). Not really a weight savings, but it would be a little more durable than a compactor bag. A similar product I've heard about (but can't vouch for) is the 2 mil plastic backpack liners made by Gossamer Gear and Backpacking Light. They are pretty cheap and light (1.6 oz or so), but are intended to be disposable, like compactor bags

[1/4 moon]

the compactor bags are pretty durable, i only used 3 or 4 during my whole hike. the sea to summit pack liners that are sam taped leak after a while from everyone that i've seen. however if you are gonna use a roll top bag as a pack liner check out outdoor research's line, just cut off the daisy chain and you are good to go, heard nothing but good things about them

[Nightwalker]

You guys are quickly talking me into just stuffing it in the pack. That really does make a lot of sense.

That's what I do as well. I learned it here, of course!

What kinds of pack liners? Do I keep hearing "contractor bags" referenced or "compactor "? I have lots of contractor trash bags for work but I don't think thats what Ive been reading.

Contractor bags are just large, heavy-duty trash bags. The ones that I use are Ruffies brand, 3 mils thick, 45 gallons. I've never had one tear or leak yet, and 18 of them cost 8 bucks.

[Appalachian Tater]

This is funny because the stuff sack that came with my Marmot helium was too small.