Mt Madison in December

[jmcdonou]

I finished up my thru hike this Nov. In July I had to take the bad weather route around Mt Madison to the hut to get out of the 65 mph winds and high 30 degree weather.

Even though I didn’t hike the mile up to the top of Madison I still consider myself a thru hiker. (I don’t want to get into a blue/yellow blazer fight.)

Out of nowhere I got a job in NH next week and was thinking about climbing up to the top of the mountain while I’m up there from Dec. 5th - 17th.

I have a feeling its going to be cold. I was planning on doing the 7 up from Pinkham and then going back down one of the quicker trails. I’m bringing a daypack and I have proper cold weather gear. I read that Madison Hut is not self serving which would be a nice backup in case the weather takes a turn for the worst but I’m wondering if anyones hiked the area in winter and could give me some advice.

Do I need to bum a pair of snowshoes? Crampons? Ice Ax?

Quasi

[Bluebearee]

Hi, congrats on a Granite State job!

You'd do best to follow trail conditions on - they are posted by folks, many very experienced, after finishing a hike somewhere.

In this tricky shoulder season between Fall and Winter, it's useful to know where the snow, but more typically ice line falls. Crampons yes, snowshoes, yes. Ice axe only if you know how to use it. It really all depends on what we've been getting for weather this time of year. Go to MW's Observatory page as well to get current conditions on the Rock Pile. The 'quicker' trails back to Pinkham from the top of Madison may not be your best bet in tricky footing, esp if you're not familiar with hiking up here this time of year. It's not to be trifled with.

What section exactly do you need to fill in? I would suggest going up from Appalachia t/h as that's an easier and quicker ascent if you're just trying to get to the top of Madison. i.e. the Airline which takes you directly to the Hut (which yes, will be shut hard with NO facilities). But if you're trying to follow the AT from the summit down to Pinkham for those 7, you will need a shuttle around. I just wouldn't suggest trying to go down Sphinx or anything else that can loop you back to Pinkham.

Good luck. Make sure you have good layers, balaclava, wool hat, several layers of gloves/mitts and even goggles! Hiking above treeline in the Whites is serious stuff in the Winter.

[Bluebearee]

http://www.viewsfromthetop.com

I screwed up the link referred to in the above email.

[The Old Fhart]

Going from Pinkham to Madison (south on the A.T.) is absolutely the worst and most dangerous way to climb Madison. The preferred winter routes would be from the Appalachia parking lot in Randolph either by Valley Way or the Airline trails. The first could be buried in deep snow and the second coated with ice and more exposed to high winds.

A day pack isn't adequate to climb in winter and any group going out should have overnight gear just in case. Climbing it alone in winter is a good way to become a statistic. This is not a place for anyone who doesn't have winter experience in the area and knows the risks involved. I have climbed it several times in winter over the years and have had to turn back more than once. Although the winds have dropped this morning and the temps have risen to about 9ºF, yesterday it was -15ºF with 120MPH winds. In the summer you took "the bad weather route around Mt Madison to the hut to get out of the 65 mph winds and high 30 degree weather", just imagine what the winter weather is going to be like with the possibility of zero visibility in blowing snow. This is not something to be considered lightly. You might hit it just right and make it but if you don't.......

[Peaks]

I might just add to OF's post:

Madison Hut is closed from mid September to June 1. No refuge available there.

[peakbagger]

Hi Madison is right out my front window. If the forecast lives up to its rep, Madison is going to have some pretty good snow cover by mid week and unless we have a major warmup, its going to be there for awhile. The best option is to go up Valley Way from the Applalachia parking lot on RT 2 , its very sheltered until Madison Hut. The trail is usually packed out within a day or so of a snowstorm but frequently will drift in overnight on the last 1/2 mile section before the hut if there is any snow the high summits. With a lot of luck you may be able to bareboot to the hut. From the hut its usually rocky with ice, traction aids are usually neccesary. The summit cone also has full exposure to the wind, just because you were warm enough getting to the hut does not imply you have enough gear to climb to the top. At a minimum you need full wind protection for all exposed skin with a couple of insulating layers. Expect that you will probably be carrying more weight and more gear for this hike than what you carried on your thru hike.

Hiking down Osgood trail to the great gulf is most likely going to be a challenge as the trail is far less used in the winter, snowshoes are not going to be optional unless we have a major thaw. Once you commit to Osgood trail, you are looking at a real long day out, headlamps will not be optional and turning around and going back up is a real bad option.

Given winter conditions, this could be a 16 to 20 hour day.

The best shot may be to go down Osgood to the badweather cutoff and circle the summit cone via the bad weather route back to the hut. It is very exposed and there could be some slight slide potential. A lot of the blazes are painted on the rocks so you will need to depend upon following the cairns This is probably a 10 to 12 hour day.

All of the water on the mountain is in solid form this time of year, therefore you need to carry a days worth with you. Its easy to get dehydrated.

The weather can change rapidly in the whites and you should plan on checking the weather before you leave in the morning. I always assume that any predicted weather coming into the area will hit about 8 hours before its forecasted to. Plan on a one in three shot of having safe weather on a particular day. Its good to come up here with a backup day.

We do on occasion have early winter warm spells, if you are lucky enough to get one great buyt dont plan on it.

If you are thinking of soloing it,have enough gear for an overnight bivy and leave directions with someone you trust to call search and rescue if you dont make it out. There is cell tower nearby, but dont plan on it once you drop down into the great gulf.

[Kirby]

Well, if it helps, there IS snow, or atleast there is on Mousilauke. Winter is the whites is nice as long as you dont hit a storm, and if you do find a storm moving in then you should turn around, because you do not want to be caught above tree line in the whites during a blizzard, unless you are super experienced with that type of weather.

Enjoy your hike,
Kirby

[gravityman]

Give it a try, and make sure you know when to turn back. Just because the weather can be bad, doesn't mean it will be. Plenty of solo hikers out there in the winter too. Just be careful, and don't feel like you HAVE to get to the top. Also, make sure you have a map and plenty of winter gear (ski goggles, balacava, mittens, etc)!

My wife and I have done Washington several times in the winter. Made it to the top 3 times, turned back at least that many. You'll know if you need to turn around.

Gravity

[Darwin again]

It's winter hiking: minimum party of four, each with full winter gear, which means overnight equipage.

Why risk it? Wait for summer and do it when your survival isn't hanging in the balance.

No summit -- or outdoor experience -- is worth your life.

[Bare Bear]

AMEN the wait for summer. If you are working in the area you will be able to judge the weather a lot better and go when it is a lot better than right now. Why go when the chance of success is so low? Mark Twain said it best, "Common sense isn't very common any more."

[Marta]

Read "Not Without Peril," and then don't do any of the things that the folks written up in that book did.

[Tinker]

but I personally never go above treeline in the White Mts. without a winter sleeping bag, pad, and bivy. Period. With or without friends.

Going without a stove will also make it impossible to obtain drinking water if you should break a .......(oh, yeah, I said no more negatives).

So, take a buddy and proper gear when there's a nice, big "H" in the sky, and don't forget the sunglasses.

[Deadeye]

The "experts" will tell you never to hike alone in the summer, either. Winter hiking can be the most fantastic experience, it's a matter of being prepared, knowing your limitiations, and knowing when to turn around.

Based on your original post ("I have a feeling its going to be cold... Do I need to bum a pair of snowshoes? Crampons?"), you don't have the necessary experience to try this without experienced company. The Whites are not forgiving teachers.

[gravityman]

I think we all know why we should risk it. Same reason we go out and hike at all. Same reason so many people invest in the stock market.

Because with risk comes reward.

You have a much higher chance of something happened on the drive to the trailhead than while hiking.

Anyone that has through hiked as the above person has, has the knowledge and experience to know their limits.

I agree, no summit is worth your life. Make smart choices, but don't be afraid because of remote possibilities.

Gravity

It's winter hiking: minimum party of four, each with full winter gear, which means overnight equipage.

Why risk it? Wait for summer and do it when your survival isn't hanging in the balance.

No summit -- or outdoor experience -- is worth your life.

[Peaks]

It's winter hiking: minimum party of four, each with full winter gear, which means overnight equipage.

Why risk it? Wait for summer and do it when your survival isn't hanging in the balance.

No summit -- or outdoor experience -- is worth your life.

Why do it? My motivation is the Winter 4K list.

But for others, it's just another challenge, just like becoming a thru-hiker

[Darwin again]

Yeah, yeah. Same old justifications for doing wacky things in the hills: I gotta be me, etc., etc. Blah, blah.

If you understand the hidden violence of winter in the Whites, then more power to you. Have fun!

[The Old Fhart]

Peaks-"Why do it? My motivation is the Winter 4K list."

Did those on my way to finishing the NE100HW.

[Darwin again]

I'm sure your post is polite and courteous, Old Flatus. But I'll never know. Merry Christmas!

[Jack Tarlin]

Hey Darwin:

O.F. knows more about the White Mountains than anyone on this website, and this includes wintertime up there. He lives in new Hamsphire and has wintered over several times on Mt. Washington.

Have you?

[Darwin again]

Jack, I have him on ignore, since he's got some issues. In any case I don't have anything to say to him on any topic and I don't care what he knows, where he lives or what he writes here. Richard can kiss off; he doesn't impress me. And if you must insinuate yourself into a good faith exchange of opinions and advice in that insipid, annoying tone of yours, you can kiss off, too. Nothing personal, but you can surely understand that. I can't put it any more plainly. I've met you in person, Jack, and you're a pretty good guy. Lay off this internet bravado.

I'm not him (thank god) therefore I don't have his experience. I suppose his wintering over on the rock pile was leave no trace, right? heh.

I have ten seasons of year-round hiking experience in the Adirondacks, which are at least as unforgiving -- if not more dangerous due to remoteness, lower hiker traffic and ruggedness -- as the Whites at any given time of year. One doesn't need to be an alcoholic to understand the downside of being one, if you get my drift.

Advising a forum poster that it's OK to hike the Whites in wintertime, just because they are going to be working in New Hampster for a week, or whatever, is reckless and unwise, given unknown skill levels.

Like I wrote above: Minimum party of four, full gear, have fun!
I second what deadeye, tinker and gravityman wrote above.