Needed: Winter Menu Ideas

[sloetoe]

OK, well, I thought I had this down 2 years ago, but I didn't
write it down, and now I'm just plain skeerd. I leave in 9 days
to hike the AT from Fontana Dam south, hopefully to end up on
Springer Mtn for New Year's Eve. 140 miles; 10 days; 7 hours of
daylight; *not* in wild-good shape. I plan on cold breakfasts
and dinners, and a standard Liptons/Minute Rice/etc. for lunch.

Here's what I remember...

First Breakfast (in bag):
NuttyBuddies
PopTarts

Second Breakfast (hobbitish, 30 minutes up trail):
SlimFast; coffee; milk; sometimes made while sitting, then
consumed while walking

PreLunch I:
GORP (cashews, raisons, craisons, M&M's, Reece's Pieces; about 6
pounds for 10-12 days)

PreLunch II:
GORP

Lunch (prepared in "heat of the day"):
Liptons/MinuteRice/PotatoSpuds/powdered soups/etc
Hot water may be boiled to clean pot, then poured into morning
Nalgene to continue clean-up from morning drink, with/without
hot chocolate/SlimFast/apple-cinnamon/etc, to consume while
moving.

PostLunch:
GORP

PreDinner:
Archer[?] crackers/cookies; Pringles; precubed cheese; precubed
sausage

Dinner (in bag):
Archer[?] crackers/cookies; Pringles; precubed cheese; precubed
sausage

Hmmmmm. Looks a lot better now that I'm writing it down. Yeah,
I'm a lot less worried, but anybody have any thoughts? Anything
obvious I'm missing?

Eatingwhilemovingtoe

[DebW]

Just my ideas, so if this doesn't apply, ignore it:

1) cooking at noontime is waisting daylight, and there's little enough of that in winter.

2) doing the gorp thing all day is a good way to go. Make sure all the parts are small enough to fit in your mouth in one bite. Precut your cheese into cubes. Can't eat it if it's frozen into one bug hunk.

3) most people like hot food, or at least hot drinks in the evening. Keeps you warm while you're standing around or doing camp chores. And you've got tons of time in the evening, unless you like to go to bed at 4:30 when it gets dark and stay there until 6 am.

4) I usually go with hot breakfast in the cold, but not having to clean pots would be an advantage, and give you more hiking daylight time. But have you tried eating frozen pop tarts? Can you bite them?

5) if you need to melt snow for water, you'll have to have the stove out morning and evening anyway. And you'll need a gasoline stove. But I've never hiked in GA, so maybe this is totally unnecessary.

[chris]

With the lack of daylight during this time, I'd agree with DebW and advise you not cook during the day, which includes the morning time. For breakfast, I usually have a couple of granola bars of some sort. If the day is supposed to be a short one (10 miles or so), I might make tea or coffee, but I'll skip it otherwise. During the day, I'll plan on
taking 3-4 breaks (depending on distance). One will be a longer meal break, when I'll consume a large amount of calories. If the day is progressing well, this break will usually last about 45 minutes, and I'll eat cheese, nuts, candy, etc. Of course, you can cook a meal and eat it in this time as well. The point is that if the day is going well, I can take a longer break. If it isn't I'll push on. The other breaks will usually be in the 20 minute range. I put food in my pockets, especially Snickers bars (to warm them up), and eat as I go. In the evening, I usually need to rehydrate if the day was cold and I didn't drink enough water. A liter of soup, dinner, a liter of tea, and then a second dinner or desert close to bed time (load up on calories before sleeping).

[sloetoe]

Just my ideas, so if this doesn't apply, ignore it:
1) cooking at noontime is wasting daylight, and there's little enough of that in winter.
### Ewwwww, that "wasting daylight" idea caught my attention, till I remembered A) I'm gonna sit on my ass (which is to say "off my *feet*") for an hour at midday anyway, hot meal or cold, per necessity, and perhaps to take a nap, because it's B) "the heat of the day" and even in my bag (or maybe *especially* in my big, poofy, near-obstructing winter bag), I'm not wanting to futz with cooking, minding stove, hot water, dirty pots, etc. After dark/before dawn is just too frickin' cold (for me -- I am a *huge* thermo-weenie). If I'm up after dark, I'd better be moving down the trail...

2) doing the gorp thing all day is a good way to go. Make sure all the parts are small enough to fit in your mouth in one bite. Precut your cheese into cubes. Can't eat it if it's frozen into one bug hunk.
### Yeah, and I forgot about "Moose Balls" -- 1/3 peanut butter, 1/3 honey, 1/3 corn flour -- they'll much into a solid mass pretty quick, but last time I also pre-rolled them in dry milk, and put them in a wide mouthed PB jar, and they were easily accessible into deep blue temps.

3) most people like hot food, or at least hot drinks in the evening. Keeps you warm while you're standing around or doing camp chores. And you've got tons of time in the evening, unless you like to go to bed at 4:30 when it gets dark and stay there until 6 am.
### Shoot, well, I *do* like to go to bed at 4:30 and sleep till 6am.... for the first night, anyway. Or when it's cold. Or dark. Or the wind is up. Or the sun is not... Hehhhhhh.
Anywho, Yes, I do as well like hot food/drink in the evening, but there's no way I can stand around waiting for stuff to boil without the freezing-butt-off thing going on, so yeah, I *hope* to have the stamina to keep moving. Last time (in perhaps better shape), I hiked south toward Erwin till past 10:00pm one night. WHAT a beautiful evening.

4) I usually go with hot breakfast in the cold, but not having to clean pots would be an advantage, and give you more hiking daylight time. But have you tried eating frozen pop tarts? Can you bite them?
### I like your caution, but yes, PopTarts can be easily consumed in the cold. (Though I prefer NuttyBuddys, as they have a bit more calories, and are -- with their higher fat content -- a lighter load to carry). And when you stick your hand in a stream and the water feels *warm*, you know you're in a ... different place.

5) if you need to melt snow for water, you'll have to have the stove out morning and evening anyway. And you'll need a gasoline stove. But I've never hiked in GA, so maybe this is totally unnecessary.
### It's rare along the AT that liquid water is not available. As far as stoves go, even with 3,000 miles on a gasoline stove, I can get [liquid]water to a boil on my alcohol stove as fast or faster than my venerable gas stoves. If we're above zero, anywho.

Thanks for a great (and organized!) reply,
Sloetoe

[sloetoe]

With the lack of daylight during this time, I'd agree with DebW and advise you not cook during the day, which includes the morning time. For breakfast, I usually have a couple of granola bars of some sort.
### Granola Barrrrrs! (Thanks, Chris!)

<snip> During the day, I'll plan on taking 3-4 breaks (depending on distance). One will be a longer meal break, when I'll consume a large amount of calories. this break will usually last about 45 minutes, The other breaks will usually be in the 20 minute range.
### I try to be pretty strick about taking (just) 10 minutes, but out of every hour of walking (so figure 8-12 per day), *plus* the hour lunch.

I put food in my pockets, especially Snickers bars (to warm them up), and eat as I go. In the evening, I usually need to rehydrate if the day was cold and I didn't drink enough water.
### I'm peeing clear throughout the day, or I'm drinking till I do. But I always have a liter bottle nearby, perhaps inside my clothing (even 40-50*F water will freeze pretty quick when the temps go down...)

A liter of soup, dinner, a liter of tea, and then a second dinner or desert close to bed time (load up on calories before sleeping).

### mmmmmmmMOOSE BALLS!

Thanks Chris!
Sloetoe

[Alligator]

I'd say you have way too many GORP breaks. I get sick of the same mix after two days. Even breaking up that mix into components would work better. Some peanuts, later some M&M's, etc. Otherwise, the same blend, same taste, break after break. Gotta keep the appetite up in the winter for fueling the furnace. Bring some little snickers, or other brand chocolate bars, some Sun Valley? granola bars (moist and gooey, preferably covered in chocolate), dried apricots or pineapple, block cheese, and some jerky. Jerky is real good to stimulate thirst, which is usually slowed down in winter. Keep next break's snacks in a warm pocket. Come to think of it, no M&Ms, use chocolate chips, easier on the teeth.

I agree with the others about cooking at night. You have nothing but time.

[RagingHampster]

A Few More Tips.

When there is plenty of snow, you only need 1L of water at a time. Keep the stove at the top of your bag, and whip it out to refill your water bottle. Only takes about 5 minutes. Then you have warm fluids throughout the day as well, and carry less weight. It also encourages you to drink. Thats what I do anyways.

Bring a high-powered headlamp. I've been using my year 'round Tikka, but I just recently ordered a Polar Star from Moosejaw, and then you can hike early in the morning before sunrise, which is beautiful, and allows you to be moving during the coldest part of the day when the crust on the snow is still hard.

I'm doing alot of solo camping this year, and I often find the cold darkness lonely. Much different than solo camping in the summer. Sometimes I make myself a mental checklist of stuff I have to do, and then take things one step at a time. Unzip sleeping bag, put extra jacket on, put boots on, pack up stove, etc. Although I usually don't bring a radio in the summer, I'm considering bringing one during the winter. When your alone and it's cold and dark, it's peaceful, but sometimes it's lonely. Winter camping has alot more to do with mental preparation than physical if you ask me. But once your all packed up and on the move, and the sun is just coming over the horizon on a crisp morning you forget about all of that and it's great.

Last but not least, don't do any dishes. The tiny bits of food that stick to the pot will freeze and you wont get sick. It also makes for interesting liters of hot cider when you get a mini-clump of southwest potato I also forgo the snickers because the nougat is terrible cold. And if you put it in your jacket the chocolate coating makes for extremely messy eating. I go for almond hershey bars. Just like at home in the freezer

Oh, and don't forget eye protection. When I first started snow-shoeing, I'd come home to find the whole inside of my house dark, and I couldn't focus on much. Then when I'd go to bed, I'd have a slight headache. This happended about 2 or 3 times before I bought some sunglasses. I've since upgraded to ski goggles as they fog up much less.

Thats it for now I guess

[daveinmuncy]

Regarding GORP, sesame sticks are always a good addition. Also, since it will probably be chilly, but not frigid, salami is good, and cheddar cheese will keep as long as your hike. Don't forget, it almost certainly WILL warm into the 50's if not the 60's during your hike (I lived near Asheville, NC for almost 5 years; about 65 miles from Fontana - trust me.) Thus, stuff might freeze, but WILL thaw. Because of the favorable conditions, food spoilage probably won't be a big concern, so take something that might ordinarily spoil - it's worth it.