suggestion for security on the trail

**Darwin again** · 01-06-2008, 21:09

Originally Posted by L. Wolf

IF I did "pack" it wouldn't be for my safety. I have a fantasy of blowing away some worthless **** attempting harm on a fellow citizen. Gives me wood thinkin' I could make some prick meet his maker.

...and the very next post talks about beligerence.
The walking cliche....

**4eyedbuzzard** · 01-06-2008, 21:19

Originally Posted by The Old Fhart

There are approximately 200 separate jurisdictions governing the A.T., some of them Federal and State governments. Are you saying you would obey their laws and regulations or carry illegally? Do you suggest that hikers carry firearms in spite of the law prohibiting them in many areas?

Even as a life-long gun owner I agree with the ATC.

TOF,

Via 3 CCW's (NH res, ME & FL non-res) I can legally carry on ALL of the AT in GA, NC, TN, VA, PA, VT, NH, ME(except Baxter) that is not in National Parks. I've stated before in other threads that I probably would NOT carry on a thru-hike, due to the logistics of moving a firearm around via FFL's and keeping a weapon secure at all times. And I have not suggested anywhere that people break the law.

What I have stated consistantly is that carrying a weapon is a legal personal choice available under many of the juristictions that the AT traverses. I'm not telling people they should or should not carry. It's not my place to. That's everyone's individual choice. I only ask in return that they do not press their personal politics and choice not to carry on me. It's a matter mutual respect.

My personal opinion is that ATC downplays crime on the trail. They publish soundbites that "The Appalachian Trail is safer than most places" but give no facts or historical statistics. They don't maintain public records of all the incidents that occur. I think there's a lot more trail-related crime than they like to talk about.

**mobileman** · 01-06-2008, 21:35

What a waste of space this thread is. Many of the "small brains" post of their bravado, bigness, brightness, and boorishness. Talk is cheap. Make better use of your time. Get off the internet and help somebody . If you want to do something worthwhile, kill this thread.

**4eyedbuzzard** · 01-06-2008, 21:48

Clicking on a link to a thread is like tuning in to a TV station. If you don't like the show, change the channel.

Thanks for your addition to the discussion though.

**MOWGLI** · 01-06-2008, 21:48

Originally Posted by 4eyedbuzzard

My personal opinion is that ATC downplays crime on the trail. They publish soundbites that "The Appalachian Trail is safer than most places" but give no facts or historical statistics. They don't maintain public records of all the incidents that occur. I think there's a lot more trail-related crime than they like to talk about.

I read your post and thought, boy, he hasn't spent a lot of time on the trail. Then I noticed that you plan to hike in 2010.

I have said it before and will say it again. It is ALMOST ALWAYS someone who hasn't hiked the trail who feels the need to lecture those that have about the way things really are on the AT. I wonder why that is.

Does crime occur on the AT? Yes. Is it prevalent? No. Is it a relatively safe place considering the millions of people who use the trail each year? You betcha!

PS: I lived within 15 minutes of the trail for more than 40 years, so I think I have a pretty good perspective how safe or unsafe the trail is.

**KirkMcquest** · 01-06-2008, 21:58

Originally Posted by The Old Fhart

How can you argue with logic like that.

Well,....why would you. The alternative logic implies that you'd rather die than break the law. I don't know how to communicate with somebody whose been brainwashed into that level of obedience. We're just too different, we'll never see eye to eye.

Luckily (hopefully) most people are still capable of independent thought and some of them might end up on a jury.

**CoyoteWhips** · 01-06-2008, 22:16

Originally Posted by KirkMcquest

Hey look, the law be damned. It's better to do 5 for carrying a gun, than to end up in a ditch somewhere.

Originally Posted by The Old Fhart

How can you argue with logic like that.

Originally Posted by KirkMcquest

Well,....why would you. The alternative logic implies that you'd rather die than break the law.

One might argue that you left out the massive third choice of hiking the AT without encountering any necessity for a gun fight.

But, I don't know you. Maybe people do want to kill you everywhere you go.

**Darwin again** · 01-06-2008, 22:22

Originally Posted by CoyoteWhips

One might argue that you left out the massive third choice of hiking the AT without encountering any necessity for a gun fight.

But, I don't know you. Maybe people do want to kill you everywhere you go.

THAT response, sir, is a thing of beauty!

**bigben** · 01-06-2008, 22:30

I'm about sick of hearing how carrying a gun on the AT is DANGEROUS. It's not if you are proficient, trained and know your gun inside and out. If I chose to carry on the AT, which I haven't as of yet but legally could (have a CCW), no one would know it. It wouldn't go off accidentally. No other hikers would be in danger of accidentally being shot. Under any circumstances. Being proficient, trained and careful take all these thing out of the equation. If you not all of the above, then threre could be issues, but don't blame the gun, blame the moron who should know better.

If every single person on the AT had a gun on them, it's safe to assume many wouldn't know how to use it safely. So say "Untrained hikers carrying guns they've never practiced with on the AT is dangerous." Because it would be. But don't generalize and simply say guns on the AT are damgerous and stupid.

Bigben

**The Old Fhart** · 01-06-2008, 22:50

4eyedbuzzard-"TOF, Via 3 CCW's (NH res, ME & FL non-res) I can legally carry on ALL of the AT in GA, NC, TN, VA, PA, VT, NH, ME(except Baxter) that is not in National Parks. I've stated before in other threads that I probably would NOT carry on a thru-hike, due to the logistics of moving a firearm around via FFL's and keeping a weapon secure at all times. And I have not suggested anywhere that people break the law."

That answers the question to my satisfaction and I wouldn't feel the least bit uneasy about you carrying a gun as you described. The attitude that worries me are the people who say:

"The alternative logic implies that you'd rather die than break the law."

I don't know how to communicate with somebody who's been brainwashed into that level of paranoia.

**take-a-knee** · 01-06-2008, 23:31

Originally Posted by The Old Fhart

That answers the question to my satisfaction and I wouldn't feel the least bit uneasy about you carrying a gun as you described. The attitude that worries me are the people who say: I don't know how to communicate with somebody who's been brainwashed into that level of paranoia.

Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they still aren't out to get me!

**4eyedbuzzard** · 01-06-2008, 23:32

Originally Posted by MOWGLI

I read your post and thought, boy, he hasn't spent a lot of time on the trail. Then I noticed that you plan to hike in 2010.

I have said it before and will say it again. It is ALMOST ALWAYS someone who hasn't hiked the trail who feels the need to lecture those that have about the way things really are on the AT. I wonder why that is.

Does crime occur on the AT? Yes. Is it prevalent? No. Is it a relatively safe place considering the millions of people who use the trail each year? You betcha!

PS: I lived within 15 minutes of the trail for more than 40 years, so I think I have a pretty good perspective how safe or unsafe the trail is.

FWIW, I hiked a lot in the GSMNP area as a kid with my uncle back in the late '60's and early '70's, did Springer to Damascus in '76(abandoned thru), hiked a lot in the NJ/NY AT section and the Kittatiny trail system from '80 - mid '90's with the kids and have hiked most of the AT here in NH, parts of western ME, as well as many other trails around the WMNF area in more recent years. Now I'm definitely no LW, WD, WF, or the like, but I can hold my own in the woods, although I hike too slow and take too many coffee breaks for some.

And for the record, I've never been attacked on the trail by a human. The biggest threats I've encountered on the trail were a couple of loose dog incidents, both with idiots for owners.

That said, ATC's "a few crimes of violence have occured" is misleading. At minimum, 9 murders(now 10) on or near the trail have occured. That's closer to a dozen, not a few. And that excludes any incidents where any victim may not have been known to be on the trail and never found, and any missing persons that were never solved. And though I have no reports, I would reasonably guess that there have been many times that number of non-fatal violent crimes such as robbery, assault, and rape on or near the trail. Is it common? No. But it's A WHOLE LOT MORE than "a few", and more than the feel-good crowd wants to talk about.

People can talk all they want about how safe the trail is and how millions and millions use the trail every year without incident. It's all meaningless BS when you're the one about to become the next member of the "few". And someone, a real live human being, someone's daughter or son or husband or wife, is going to fill that next victim's role. These "few" crimes happen to real people, just like you and I, and our children, simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, through no fault of their own. If you feel that it'll never happen to you - fine. But I don't think it's fair to criticize others who choose not to dismiss that risk, however small you percieve it to be, and do what they are legally entitled to in order to reduce it and be secure.

**Montego** · 01-06-2008, 23:33

Originally Posted by take-a-knee

Just because I'm paranoid, doesn't mean they still aren't out to get me!

LOL take-a-knee

**slowroller** · 01-06-2008, 23:46

**jessicacomp** · 01-07-2008, 00:07

this doesnt apply for thru-hiking, but if you are just out for the day, I think it is a good idea to drive around the parking lot, and unless there is a ridiculous amount of cars, write down all their license plate numbers. Just leave a small note in your car w/ all the numbers and at what time you wrote them down. That way if something happens, at least they might get ahold of a witness if nothing else..
Other than that, I tie pepperspray around my wrist, wear a whistle around my neck and keep my cell phone on my person.

**Spastic** · 01-07-2008, 00:52

I go to the wilderness to get away from all the kookiness and paranoia prevalent in our society, and now i'm displeased to say that a group of whiteblaze vigilantes with just such characteristics will henceforth be snooping around trailheads, photographing anyone who dares park their car for a dayhike. Doesn't anyone else find this completely nutty and uneffective? This banana emoticon was never as appropriate

**4eyedbuzzard** · 01-07-2008, 00:59

Originally Posted by Spastic

I go to the wilderness to get away from all the kookiness and paranoia prevalent in our society, and now i'm displeased to say that a group of whiteblaze vigilantes with just such characteristics will henceforth be snooping around trailheads, photographing anyone who dares park their car for a dayhike. Doesn't anyone else find this completely nutty and uneffective? This banana emoticon was never as appropriate

Whiteblaze vigilantes?

Now who's paranoid?

BTW, do you feel lucky today?

**River Runner** · 01-07-2008, 01:10

Originally Posted by Spastic

I go to the wilderness to get away from all the kookiness and paranoia prevalent in our society, and now i'm displeased to say that a group of whiteblaze vigilantes with just such characteristics will henceforth be snooping around trailheads, photographing anyone who dares park their car for a dayhike. Doesn't anyone else find this completely nutty and uneffective? This banana emoticon was never as appropriate

So how is someone taking a photo of your car going to prevent your getting away from kookiness and paranoia? More than likely you won't even be there at the time.

If you're that paranoid, maybe you should just stop doing whatever it is that is making you worried about someone knowing your whereabouts.

**rafe** · 01-07-2008, 01:17

Originally Posted by River Runner

If you're that paranoid, maybe you should just stop doing whatever it is that is making you worried about someone knowing your whereabouts.

Umm, no, I'd say Spastic made a good point, but unfortunately it went over your head.

I'm not that worried about WB vigilantes, tho. I suspect most WBers don't get that close to the actual AT, at least not very often. Too scary!

**Lone Wolf** · 01-07-2008, 09:40

Originally Posted by slowroller

I love my uncle Ted!

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