Hanging food bags

[River Runner]

what's it mean?

Oh - gotcha' Your mileage may vary. In other words, your experience may be different.

But you know all that L Wolf.

You're just pickin' on me for me pickin' on you the other day. Guess I deserved the payback.

Even?

[Lone Wolf]

i really didn't know what it meant. i'm not pickin' on you. i don't remember you pickin' on me.
even? okay i guess.
about them bears, it's funny how there's never been a hiker on the AT killed or mauled by one, yet hikers spend a lot of time and energy preparing against an attack. but nobody seems to worry or prepare to be attacked/raped/killed by a human which has happened a lot. go figure

[Lellers]

Regarding that boy scout story, that happened at Hickory Run State Park. In the last couple of years, they've had a problem with bears becoming habituated to people-food up there. I've camped at Hickory Run many, many times, and have seen some utterly stupid people-behavior in both the family camping areas and in the group sites. As I walked through the family area two years ago, I saw one of those giant sized jars of peanut butter sitting open in an unattended campsite. I closed up the jar, and about an hour or so later when the campers returned to their site, I went over and had a friendly conversation with them about leaving out food or any smellables. The next day, I saw a very agitated mom loading up her car to leave quickly. She had a wide-eyed, nearly-panic-stricken look on her face. She told me that she didn't understand why a bear ripped up her "food tent", that she was terrified, and would never go camping again. (Which I think was a good decision.) Turns out, she had stored all her food in a separate tent in her campsite. There were dabs of peanut butter in spots on rocks around the campsite. I've seen equally bad camper behavior in the group sites at Hickory Run, as well. In fact, the park website has an updated warning about bear activity and storing food and smellables in cars while camping at Hickory Run.

(Incidentally, Hickory Run has a trail with a very cool name: the Shades of Death trail. It's a good trail, too! When I die, I want to be cremated and have my ashes spread on that trail!)

[Strategic]

I've also seen people hang their food and lose it. We call 'em bear pinatas.

The answer to your previous post about SNP is; luck. You were lucky that none of those bears happened to be hungry enough when they came by your camp, because if they were they might well have decided that your food was just the thing for a midnight snack too. Luck is what the unprepared depend on, and it eventually fails them. I hope, both for your sake and the bear's, that it does not fail you...but I wouldn't count on it either.

As for those who hang their food and lose it, well, that's an easy answer too; they did it incorrectly. As with any piece of gear or technique, if you do it wrong it's likely to fail. The classic mistake in bear bagging is to hang it too low (thus the "bear pinata" problem) or to leave the tied end of the line out where the bear is likely to either see it or accidentally encounter it and thus break or bite it, dropping the bag. The PCT method properly applied eliminates both these problems, as does the Ursack (where the bear can make a pinata of it all he wants but still isn't getting it open.)

[Lilred]

The ursack is good, from what I hear, of keeping the bear out of your food, but that doesn't stop the bear from grabbing it and running down the side of the mountain with it. The outcome is still the same, you've lost your food.

[Strategic]

The ursack is good, from what I hear, of keeping the bear out of your food, but that doesn't stop the bear from grabbing it and running down the side of the mountain with it. The outcome is still the same, you've lost your food.

Actually, no, the Ursack folks thought of that. The line of the Ursack is as tough as the fabric (both extremely high-strength Spectra in the current models, I believe) and both can resist breakage by a bear. The Ursack site has a video of one of their "test bears" gripping the bottom of a sack in it's teeth and trying to pull it off the tree it's tied to. It can't do it, even with putting it's whole body into yanking on the thing (and it's a 500lb bear too.) Now, tie it to a tree that will break, then you'd have a problem.

[HIKER7s]

This may be a stupid question, but do you have to worry about hanging your food in a bear bag in all states along the AT?

yes, why not practice the good practice of doing it.

[Lone Wolf]

nah. sleep with it.

[HIKER7s]

nah. sleep with it.

yeah, use it for a pillow. Take the stuff that could be crushed and just put it in the corner o your tent

[HIKER7s]

Whatever you do with it, handle your food and what you do with it very responsibly. Especially in country that has heavy bear activity.

[homebrew]

Smear a little honey on the bag and sleep with it held between your knees.

[Strategic]

i really didn't know what it meant. i'm not pickin' on you. i don't remember you pickin' on me.
even? okay i guess.
about them bears, it's funny how there's never been a hiker on the AT killed or mauled by one, yet hikers spend a lot of time and energy preparing against an attack. but nobody seems to worry or prepare to be attacked/raped/killed by a human which has happened a lot. go figure

Sorry L. Wolf, but you're wrong on this one. While there are no documented fatalities, there have been injurious attacks directly on the AT. I found three just by a quick Google: one in NJ at Mashipacong shelter, a second in DWG here in PA, and a third in NC at Roaring Fork shelter. The DWG attack was on a non-hiker, but the other two were AT hikers (the first a section hiker, the second a thru-hiker.) The Mashipacong attack was certainly the worst, though the injuries are unspecified in the reports because the NJ authorities refused to release the info (it's apparently policy not to give these details.) The hiker was dragged in his bag from the shelter not just by the bag but by the leg. I don't know about anyone else, but that's not my idea of a successful hike.

And of course, this ignores the hikers elsewhere near the trail that have been attacked as well (including the attacks mentioned earlier here in PA at Hickory Run Park in the Poconos.) Just because bear attacks are relatively rare compared to human attacks is no reason not to do what's prudent to prevent them.

[Lone Wolf]

guess i'll start packing

[dessertrat]

The only reason the bears don't attack the hikers more often is because the bears know that the hikers are PREPARED!

Once we start acting like pantywaists and stop carrying guns and pepper spray, the bears will attack more often.

[HIKER7s]

That attack in Hickory Run remember was brought on by the candy the kid had in his tent AND likely smeared somewhere else. Either way, The whole area of the Pocono's with everybody have 2nd houses there and living there in increasing numbers hasnt made the situation any better.

Closing habitaits, people (FUP) feeding the bears like they fill their bird feeder, tolerating bears where they really shouldnt be (in around resturants) . All this, and who hasnt heard this already...give the bear an association with people with food.

Since I am on the subject. Anyone heard of the bear killing outside of a place called High Elevations early this past fall. This bear had been in and around the place for years. Now I can understand (I dont approve of it, but I can see why) someone wanting to kill the bear, maybe it spooked them one time or ..whatever.

It was found one morning in the back of the parking lot killed with a crossbow arrow. 613 pounds of bear, later I talked with the restruant bartender and she said that it was reported as 613 but the warden said it had to go close to 800. (which I find very unusual but again whatever).

Whoever shot this animal just left it.

weird

[HIKER7s]

The only reason the bears don't attack the hikers more often is because the bears know that the hikers are PREPARED!

Once we start acting like pantywaists and stop carrying guns and pepper spray, the bears will attack more often.

Or when they decide to come at you (if they do know what you carry) they will come with all barrels loaded. Do you know how fast they are.

[HIKER7s]

guess i'll start packing

Yeah I have to remember to pack my camera.

[ryaanmc]

Had a squirrel chew through the draw string on my bear bag, it fell and opened and we had a long, hungry,unplanned hike out. We have a wire mesh bag now that we hang.

[River Runner]

Had a squirrel chew through the draw string on my bear bag, it fell and opened and we had a long, hungry,unplanned hike out. We have a wire mesh bag now that we hang.

Apparently squirrels are among the critters that can get into Ursacks, along with mice being able to chew small holes, and wolves and dogs being able to damage them. From the Ursack site:

"Ursack is highly effective against Marmots and raccoons. It should not be considered wolf or dog resistant. That's because they have sharp teeth and strong jaws. Bears have great strength, but their teeth are not sharp.
Other rodents have varying degrees of success. Sometimes mice can chew very small holes, but very little of your food is likely to be taken. Some species of squirrels and (we have heard) pine martens have greater success, and may on rare occasion chew holes in Ursack."

[HIKER7s]

we had a trash bag strung between two trees once, just fiddling around. Chimpmunks were really comical trying to get at it