Big 3 Gear List

[barbarakerns05]

I would appreciate your comments on my first attempt at gear choices for my '05 thru-hike of the AT. I'll be buying gear after the holidays and trying it out on backpacking trips with my Sierra Club next spring. I've done a lot of research and have paid attention to critiques of gear both here and at the TrailForums and WomenHikers websites. I want to go as light as possible, without sacrificing too much comfort. Please tell me what you think. I'd greatly appreciate your sage advice. Thanks, Barbara

Backpack:
Granite Gear Vapor Trail
Backpacker Mag’s Choice 2003,ultralite,
3600 cu in w/lg ext collar, carries loads up to 30 lbs,
good padding on should straps, sternum strap, hipbelt, loadlifter straps,
has narrow profile, hugs back well,
2 stretch side pockets for water bottles
2 lbs, $145

Pack Cover:
Dancing Light Gear
waterproof silnylon
3 oz, $20

Tent:
Mountain Hardware Waypoint 1
single wall w/several vents to aid w/condensation problems,
19 sq ft, w/5 sq ft vestibule, 7.5 ft long, 3 ft wide, 33 inches high,
includes fly, pole, Y pegs, stuff sack
2 lbs, 8 oz, $195

Sleeping Bag:
Western Mountaineering Ultra-light
20 degree, 5 inches of loft, 850 fill down,
w/waterproof stuff sack
1 lb, 11 oz, $280

Silk Sleeping Bag Liner:
Summit
adds 10 degrees to bag, helps keep bag clean
use by itself when too warm for bag
5 oz, $55

Pad:
Thermarest Ultralight
self-inflating, 3/4 length
18 oz, $60

Total weight: 8 lbs
Total cost: $760

[Shadowman]

The Sierra Club trips are a good way to see a lot of gear. I used to do volunteer work leading Sierra Club service backpacking trips doing mostly trail maintenance. If you have 12 people, you will probably have about 10 different tents, sleeping bags, etc. to compare and talk about. The main difference on the Appalachian Trail is that you move on every day.

I'm not a light packer so I can't give you much worthwhile comment there. I used the regular 3/4 length Thermarest. I had it for several years before the AT and it survived the duration without problem and I saw the ultra light version used by people for the whole trail also. Statistically, down bags are in the minority on the AT but you can weigh the pluses and minuses of that yourself. I used a Sierra Designs Wild Bill model synthetic with the same ratings but coming in at a pound heavier (but about $180 cheaper). It can be washed in a wash machine (even if the manufacturer threatens damnation for this). As with synthetic clothes you still have warmth retention even when damp or wet so it may be worth talking to others that have wandered through weeks of rain and drizzle to get their spin on down versus synthetic bags. I also have a North Face Down bag for colder dryer camping elsewhere than the AT but one simply needs to be more careful about getting them wet.

Good luck. Planning and gear acquisition are part of the fun.

[hungryhowie]

First off, congratulations on actually seeming to care what you're going to carry. It shows in your choices. My suggestions are below.

Backpack: Granite Gear Vapor Trail, 2lbs - $145

This seems like a very viable option. You may also consider the 2004 Mountainsmith Ghost. It's been redesigned and has lost a little volume (100 ci), and a lot of weight (5oz). It is now $150 and is 3000ci, and 2lbs 1oz. Very similar to the Granite gear in specs, but just another option. A silnylon packcover is a good option. If you have any sewing ambition at all, they are simple and cheap to make. You can even purchase 0.9oz silnylon and save half an ounce if you want. This is also a great way to save som big cash and weight - by making your own silnylon stuff sacs.

Tent:
Mountain Hardware Waypoint 1, 2 lbs, 8 oz, $195

This is the only item with which I totally disagree. I've read several reports of weight being significantly understated with this tent (testers have weighed it consistently at over 3 pounds). Several hikers have even returned it out of principle - the least they could do is be honest...

Instead, I would highly recommend going with one of the cottage manufactuers here. Tarptent is my preference. You could get a Virga that weighs about 23oz with a sewn-in floor and the extended beak that acts as a large vestibule (assuming you use a trekking pole. If not, add 1.5 oz for the pole). This substitution will save you $30 and over 1 pound (stated weight - over two pounds real weight). Ditch the tent idea, go with something lighter.

Sleeping Bag: 1 lb, 11 oz, $280

Excellent choice. WM is a great manufacturer. If money's not too tight, you may also want to invest in one of their ultralight 35-40*F models for summer. If you don't want to spend the money here, don't worry, 1lb 11oz isn't very heavy, even for a summer bag.

Silk Sleeping Bag Liner:
Summit
adds 10 degrees to bag, helps keep bag clean
use by itself when too warm for bag
5 oz, $55

Umm...I can't think of a night in the woods when a sil liner would have been enough insulation by itself. I consider these utterly useless. I've always had better results simply sleeping in my rain gear....YMMV but unless you are an extremely cold sleeper, I'd say leave it at home. If you are, drag it with you at the beginning (in the cold) and see how it does. Do yourself a favor, though, and not use it sometimes though, to see how well you do.

Pad:
Thermarest Ultralight
self-inflating, 3/4 length
18 oz, $60

Thermarest is coming out with a couple of new pads next year - the Prolite 3 and 4. The 3 correlates to the Ultralite and the 4 to the Guidelite. They make a full and 3/4 version in both. The 3 3/4 (equivalent to what you say here) weighs 13oz and the full length weighs 20oz. They have lightened them considerably and have also added silicone spots on the underside to help them "grip" to tent floors better - no more sliding around on my thermarest...hooray!

Pack - Granite Gear Vapor Trail, 2lbs, $145
Packcover - homemade, still 3oz, but only about $5
Shelter - Tarptent Virga (with options listed above), 23oz, $165
Bag - WM Ultralight - 1lb 11oz, $280
Pad - Thermarest Prolite 3 3/4, 13oz, $69.

Total - $664 and 6lbs 2oz

These changes save you nearly $100 and nearly 2 pounds. I also don't think that they will infringe on the comfort level at all (unless they make it more comfortable for you to actually HIKE

-Howie

[illininagel]

Granite Gear Vapor Trail
Backpacker Mag’s Choice 2003,ultralite,
3600 cu in w/lg ext collar, carries loads up to 30 lbs,
good padding on should straps, sternum strap, hipbelt, loadlifter straps,
has narrow profile, hugs back well,
2 stretch side pockets for water bottles
2 lbs, $145

FYI...this backpack is on sale at www.backcountrygear.com for $101.50. I've never purchased anything from this store, but here's the link:

http://www.backcountrygear.com/catal...tail.cfm/GG344

[Kerosene]

I've purchased a daypack from BackCountryGear and had no problems. I would definitely snap up the Vapor Trail on sale. I purchased its big brother, the Nimbus Ozone, but everyone was selling it for the $200 list price.

I like 'Howie's suggestions. I was leaning toward the WayPoint but was not aware of the stated weight issue. I decided to go with the larger and heavier Nimbus Ozone over the Vapor Trail because I thought it would ride better (it has a more substantial framesheet) and I could load it up with extra food if re-supplies were more than 4-5 days and still have a pack rated to carry the weight.

[Lumberjack]

on the silk liner -

for 10 bucks wally world sells fleece sleeping bags that adds more warmth and doesnt weigh much - if you are handy sewing or know someone - removing the zipper can cut the weight down to less then a pound.

If your gonna play shelter rat then a tarp-tent, tarp or racing hammock might be better choices the a more "normal" tent and all can be had cheaper and weigh less.


Backpackgeartest is also a good site for reviews...

http://backpackgeartest.org/

[Frog]

So many choices out there its what works best for you. I love my Dana Designs Shortbed. Its a frame that works like an internal. I use it the most and its the most comfortable. I also like any pack that Osprey makes i also have an ether 70 that works great on shorter trips. A lot depends on when you start. Sleeping bags well if a down bag gets wet its of no use to you. But there again thats what i prefer. The north face ibex the warmest bag i have ever sleep in. I know its good to 6 below 0 tested at mt. Rogers at those temps. As for sleeping mats. I love the thermarest but for a long hike i would take the Z rest no worry of it getting a puncture and leaking all the air out. As for tents The walrus zoid which is now msr is the best i have used. So good my brother went out and got him one. I use the 1.0 but would suggest the 1.5 it has two doors and two vestubules and is still light. I have tested it in the rain snow and wind it held up in all conditions. Better than any other tent i have ever used since 1970. Hope these are of some help

[Peaks]

I don't mean to give you a non-answer, but the best gear for you is what ever works best for you.

The right pack is one that holds all you gear, food, and water comfortably. So, take all your gear to the outfitter and try on various packs before buying.

The right sleeping bag for you is one that fits and keeps you warm. Again, try on different bags for fit before buying.

The right tent for you is one that you are comfortable in. Again, at the outfitter, bring all the gear into the tent with you that you plan to bring in at night, and then see how it fits you. Try changing clothes inside. Do you want to sit up inside? How are you going to cook on a rainy night? etc.

Everyone has their own ideas on what works best for them. And everyone has different preferences.

[bearbag hanger]

Sleeping Bag:
Western Mountaineering Ultra-light
20 degree, 5 inches of loft, 850 fill down,
w/waterproof stuff sack
1 lb, 11 oz, $280

Pad:
Thermarest Ultralight
self-inflating, 3/4 length
18 oz, $60

Two comments.

Down sleeping bag - depends on how much experience you have. I would recommend a heavier, but cheaper, synthetic unless you have managed a two day rain storm and still kept your sleeping bag dry. Right now I use a down quilt, so I'm not exactly following my own advice. But I have survived several days of hard rain and kept my gear dry, so I'm not that worried. Maybe a little.

Thermarest - for six oz and maybe $10, if you don't shop, you can get a 3/8 in pad closed cell pad at Target. They aren't very comfortable, but IF you can live with the hard ground, you'll save 10 - 12 oz. I sleep in a hammock, so the hard ground is not an issue, but I have used this on three or four trips using a tent. You may not sleep well the first or even the second night, but you'll sleep eventually and then you'll be use to it. What orginally led me to not worring about the hard ground were stories about long term POWs who came home and had to sleep on the floor because their beds were too soft.

Just something to think about. Don't let anyone bully you into taking something your not sure of. I know of a guy who took all of Ray Jardine's advice to heart (except the part about knowing what you're doing) and started out on the ECT at Key West. He had no experience what so ever, this was his first trip! They had to pull him out of a snowstorm in GA, just before the AT and he was in a comma for several weeks as a result of exposure. Because he was young, he fully recovered and then did the whole ECT a couple years later, but with a much heavier pack (all the way up to 35 lbs).

[brian]

Two comments.

They aren't very comfortable, but IF you can live with the hard ground, you'll save 10 - 12 oz...... You may not sleep well the first or even the second night, but you'll sleep eventually and then you'll be use to it. What orginally led me to not worring about the hard ground were stories about long term POWs who came home and had to sleep on the floor because their beds were too soft.

What kind of statement is this? I am the kind of person that will look for the lightest wieght alternative, often in more comfort than if I used heavier items (hammock, pack). But jeez...do you thinkthat POW's had ANYcomforts at all?? I would much prefer the little extra weight (maybe a different pad), rather than not getting a good nights sleep, which leads to a not-so-happy-hiker.

Brian
Future Thru Hiker 2013

[bearbag hanger]

What kind of statement is this? I am the kind of person that will look for the lightest wieght alternative, often in more comfort than if I used heavier items (hammock, pack). But jeez...do you thinkthat POW's had ANYcomforts at all?? I would much prefer the little extra weight (maybe a different pad), rather than not getting a good nights sleep, which leads to a not-so-happy-hiker.

Brian
Future Thru Hiker 2013

Sorry, I think you misinterpreted my point. True, POWs are not provided with any comfort at all. But is shows that you can get use to anything. And for me, the comfort of saving a half pound or more while hiking is worth more than the discomfort I suffer without it at night. As to getting a good nights sleep, it will come. Even with the best, most comfortable gear, I won't sleep the first night anyway and rarely get much sleep on the second night out. By the third night, I sleep soundly no matter what.

[hungryhowie]

Two comments.

Down sleeping bag - depends on how much experience you have. I would recommend a heavier, but cheaper, synthetic unless you have managed a two day rain storm and still kept your sleeping bag dry. Right now I use a down quilt, so I'm not exactly following my own advice. But I have survived several days of hard rain and kept my gear dry, so I'm not that worried. Maybe a little.

AARRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!

Do people like you still EXIST?!?!?!? I'm sorry, but after years of telling people not to believe everything they hear, I'm slightly fed up with this crusade. Answer me this? Who are the major stakeholders in the Goose Down insdustry? Don't know? That's because there are none. They are simply farmers in Europe and Asia that sell their down to people who want it. Now, who are the players in the Synthetic insulation industry? Dupont and 3M. Ever heard of these multi-billion dollar companies? Who do you think spends more on advertising? Who do you think feeds you the information that you know about down? Dupont and 3M! If down was REALLY that sensitive to water THEY WOULDN"T USE IT IN SLEEPING BAGS THAT ARE MEANT TO BE USED OUTSIDE IN THE HARSHEST ENVIRONMENTS ON EARTH! Think about the liability here. "Yes, we deliberately made and sold inneffectve equipment that doesn't stand up to the conditions for which we said they would."

If this doesn't convince you, where does down come from? Geese. What kind of foul are geese? WATERFOUL! This means they LIVE their lives in water. I promise that if their down didn't keep them warm when wet, they wouldn't stay in the water.

What about my own experiences? I've hiked nearly 3000 miles exclusively with down sleeping bags. Out of 175 days on the AT, it rained more than 100 of them, including 30 consecutive days of rain in TN/southern VA. The night I started the trail, a fellow hiker spilled the entirety of 100oz of water out of his camelback onto my down bag. It was soaked. I had a 30*F bag, it was about 30*F that night, and I was plenty warm. My bag has NEVER gotten so wet that it wouldn't keep me warm to its normal low-temperature.

I promise you (i've seen it done), that if you throw your down sleeping bag into a lake (or tub), it will float.

DOn't be scared of down. There's nothing to be scared OF.

-Howie

[brian]

But dont forget that waterfowl have a protective cover of feathers, coated with oils, to keep out the water. I know, down has those same oils, but it is not the first barrier from water. It must be somewhat protected. Hence, a sleeping bag shell....

Brian

AARRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!

Do people like you still EXIST?!?!?!? I'm sorry, but after years of telling people not to believe everything they hear, I'm slightly fed up with this crusade. Answer me this? Who are the major stakeholders in the Goose Down insdustry? Don't know? That's because there are none. They are simply farmers in Europe and Asia that sell their down to people who want it. Now, who are the players in the Synthetic insulation industry? Dupont and 3M. Ever heard of these multi-billion dollar companies? Who do you think spends more on advertising? Who do you think feeds you the information that you know about down? Dupont and 3M! If down was REALLY that sensitive to water THEY WOULDN"T USE IT IN SLEEPING BAGS THAT ARE MEANT TO BE USED OUTSIDE IN THE HARSHEST ENVIRONMENTS ON EARTH! Think about the liability here. "Yes, we deliberately made and sold inneffectve equipment that doesn't stand up to the conditions for which we said they would."

If this doesn't convince you, where does down come from? Geese. What kind of foul are geese? WATERFOUL! This means they LIVE their lives in water. I promise that if their down didn't keep them warm when wet, they wouldn't stay in the water.

What about my own experiences? I've hiked nearly 3000 miles exclusively with down sleeping bags. Out of 175 days on the AT, it rained more than 100 of them, including 30 consecutive days of rain in TN/southern VA. The night I started the trail, a fellow hiker spilled the entirety of 100oz of water out of his camelback onto my down bag. It was soaked. I had a 30*F bag, it was about 30*F that night, and I was plenty warm. My bag has NEVER gotten so wet that it wouldn't keep me warm to its normal low-temperature.

I promise you (i've seen it done), that if you throw your down sleeping bag into a lake (or tub), it will float.

DOn't be scared of down. There's nothing to be scared OF.

-Howie

[Peaks]

OK, back to the basic question.

Therma rest or closed cell foam
Figure out if the weight and cost justifies the comfort. There are plenty of people out there who use closed cell foam pads. Generally those with younger bones. If in doubt, buy a closed cell foam pad at Walmart and then try sleeping on a concrete floor.

Down or synthetic
Generall speaking, down is lighter, compresses better and pricer than synthetic. The higher fill power down the lighter and the more expensive. So, figure out if the cost justifies the weight savings. And, contrary to what anyone else says, when expect everything to get at least damp in your pack, no matter how hard you try to keep things dry. And there will be nights in a shelter when the mist blows in on you and gets things damp that way too. People use both. So, make a decision which is right for you.