Shelter ethics.

[hobojoe]

Hello fellow classmates of '08. My name is Hobo Joe, and for the past 4 years I have been attempting to do a thru-hike with little or no money. Since my first attempt in '04 I have met some amazing people on the trail, along with a few disrespectful folks. It is very important to remember to leave the AT and shelters just as you found them. Pack it in pack it out.
It is not OK to leave: trash, food, cigarette buts, or anything (besides gear that someone will definitely take, and footprints). in or around the shelters, fire pits, road-crossings etc.
I personally feel that when a hiker balls up a snickers wrapper or flicks a filtered cigarette butt into the fire ring at a shelter they are completely disrespecting every hiker and the trail itself. Burning paper trash in a fire pit is acceptable as long as it is taken care of; expecting someone else to come along and burn your trash for you is not! Unless your momma is hiking along behind you.
I know many of you believe the same thing I do, but I ask of you please do not hesitate to tell someone else that there trash is ruining your wilderness experience. When you get to a shelter that is trashed, pack some of that trash out, you'll never notice the weight and it will make trail beautiful for the next folks who come through. Let's bring a little love to 2000 & Hate (2008).
Am I way out of line here????

[Appalachian Tater]

Hello fellow classmates of '08. My name is Hobo Joe, and for the past 4 years I have been attempting to do a thru-hike with little or no money. Since my first attempt in '04 I have met some amazing people on the trail, along with a few disrespectful folks. It is very important to remember to leave the AT and shelters just as you found them. Pack it in pack it out.
It is not OK to leave: trash, food, cigarette buts, or anything (besides gear that someone will definitely take, and footprints). in or around the shelters, fire pits, road-crossings etc.
I personally feel that when a hiker balls up a snickers wrapper or flicks a filtered cigarette butt into the fire ring at a shelter they are completely disrespecting every hiker and the trail itself. Burning paper trash in a fire pit is acceptable as long as it is taken care of; expecting someone else to come along and burn your trash for you is not! Unless your momma is hiking along behind you.
I know many of you believe the same thing I do, but I ask of you please do not hesitate to tell someone else that there trash is ruining your wilderness experience. When you get to a shelter that is trashed, pack some of that trash out, you'll never notice the weight and it will make trail beautiful for the next folks who come through. Let's bring a little love to 2000 & Hate (2008).
Am I way out of line here????

No, you're right in line, except that trail maintainers would prefer you leave nothing in shelters except for your entry in the journal. They have to carry out anything you leave, including equipment you think someone else might want. Tons of it a year.

[hobojoe]

No, you're right in line, except that trail maintainers would prefer you leave nothing in shelters except for your entry in the journal. They have to carry out anything you leave, including equipment you think someone else might want. Tons of it a year.

Yeah, you're right, that is what hiker boxes are for anyway. I do remember a time when my water bladder sprung a leak and I found one about 4 hours later in a shelter. Good luck, but still it's probably not realy respectful.
My first hike your average l.l. Bean hiker left about 7 days of food, sleeping bag, ten pairs of socks, wistles compass etc. hung up on the bear line Hawk Mt. shelter. I did my best to eat his food, but I do not thank him for it.

[zoidfu]

Personally, I don't mind if someone leaves a bottle of the good stuff in a shelter.

[hobojoe]

Personally, I don't mind if someone leaves a bottle of the good stuff in a shelter.

Will you pack out the bottle or just leave it for the maintainers.

[zoidfu]

Will you pack out the bottle or just leave it for the maintainers.

Of course. I've packed out trash for thru hikers more times than I can count.

What about leaving matches, lighters and TP? I don't see the harm in that. I'm going to sit back and prepare to get blasted now

[Lone Wolf]

[COLOR=black]
[COLOR=black]It is not OK to leave: trash, food, cigarette buts, or anything (besides gear that someone will definitely take, and footprints). i

wrong. ask any maintainer

[DesertMTB]

So it isn't ok to put a cigarette butt in the fire, but it is acceptable to burn trash? That doesn't make any sense.

[hobojoe]

So it isn't ok to put a cigarette butt in the fire, but it is acceptable to burn trash? That doesn't make any sense.

I was refering to an "unlit fire ring" your butts will blow across the forest with a strong gust of wind. Also birds will pick them up for their nest, and choke on them, (or start smoking). Either way no good.

[Lone Wolf]

NOTHING except wood should go in a fire pit

[hobojoe]

NOTHING except wood should go in a fire pit

Not paper?

[Appalachian Tater]

Not paper?

Paper IS wood.

[DesertMTB]

I was refering to an "unlit fire ring" your butts will blow across the forest with a strong gust of wind. Also birds will pick them up for their nest, and choke on them, (or start smoking). Either way no good.

Ok. Yeah, I wouldn't leave my butts in an unlit fire ring. But I do flick them into the fire at night.

[The Weasel]

Cigarette butts thrown into a fire often do not get burned, ending up at the perimeter or the base. No one fishes them out if they don't. If you smoke, field strip your butt and pack out the filter.

As for paper in a fire, a lot of paper has toxic chemicals in the ink which are released by burning, and a lot of "paper" packaging isn't paper but plastic film, which is also toxic when burnt. Even true "paper" that has been food packaging shouldn't be burned, since trace food odors from the paper can be released during combustion, helping to draw animals to the shelter area.

Paper can be removed from 90% of packaging before a hike, with repackaging in ziplocs that can be used to pack garbage/trash out. NO trash or garbage should be put in fires, even paper.

TW

[max patch]

Even true "paper" that has been food packaging shouldn't be burned, since trace food odors from the paper can be released during combustion, helping to draw animals to the shelter area.

That technically may be true, however, as a practical matter any animals that may be drawn to a shelter are already going to be there from the odors coming from spilled soup, other food particles, and toothpaste spit.

[Appalachian Tater]

That technically may be true, however, as a practical matter any animals that may be drawn to a shelter are already going to be there from the odors coming from spilled soup, other food particles, and toothpaste spit.

I spit toothpaste into the fire ring.

[hobojoe]

I spit toothpaste into the fire ring.

Usualy I would take a 5 minute walk to brush. That is too much mint and sugar too close to the shelter or campsite. It will definately attract animals. Coons as in my experience.

[Appalachian Tater]

Usualy I would take a 5 minute walk to brush. That is too much mint and sugar too close to the shelter or campsite. It will definately attract animals. Coons as in my experience.

LNT is a set of principles, not a set of rules. I was taught to do it by an experienced hiker. You are correct that it is not always appropriate. Unfortunately, shelters attract animals because of the food and salt.

[The Weasel]

That technically may be true, however, as a practical matter any animals that may be drawn to a shelter are already going to be there from the odors coming from spilled soup, other food particles, and toothpaste spit.

Yes, you're right, Max. But everything is cumulative, and in other places that aren't as heavily used as a shelter, burning waste paper in fires can draw animals that wouldn't otherwise appear, particularly noxious varmints like 'coons, 'possums and skunks.

TW

[Wise Old Owl]

Yes, you're right, Max. But everything is cumulative, and in other places that aren't as heavily used as a shelter, burning waste paper in fires can draw animals that wouldn't otherwise appear, particularly noxious varmints like 'coons, 'possums and skunks.

TW

Ok, I am not going to pick this apart too much. Skunks & coons are not draw to the smells in a well made fire pit. They are drawn by smells associated by animal fats breaking down. Pour off any chicken fat off any griddle and you will have skunks for miles sniffing your tent and any other object that was close to where you dropped the fat. They are scavengers - Not fire pit honey's - If it is toast in a fire pit you have nothing to worry about. I made this mistake only once in a campground.