Shuttle Costs??

[Tabasco]

I am doing the Springer to Neel's Gap section mid October. How much should a shuttle cost to get me from Neel's Gap to USFS 42 at Big Stamp Gap? Someone is trying to hit me up for $ 60 which to me seems a bit steep. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[deeddawg]

I don't have much experience at such things, so take my words in that context. I am familiar with much of the area.

Let's step back and take a look at all that shuttle entails.

If the shuttle driver lives in the area, that's roughly an 80 mile trip to perform your shuttle -- roughly double the actual road distance.

I'm not that familiar with the FS road section, but US19 and US52 in that area are anything but straight and a reasonably cautious driver would probably require three hours to do the whole thing.

IRS mileage rate for business use of a car these days is $0.36 per mile, so a fair estimate of the cost of the wear and tear, insurance, fuel, etc. for the car would be roughly equivalent to this, which is $28.80.

That leaves $31.20 for the shuttle driver for three hours time, or a hair over $10 per hour.

I'm not sure I see that as terribly steep.

Like I said, I'm a newbie in such matters and please take what I wrote in that light. Chances are I haven't the foggiest idea as to what I'm talking about.

With that said, have a look at http://www.georgia-atclub.org/directions.html and scroll to the bottom for a lot of shuttle possibilities. Looks like a lot of these folks do it mostly to help out as opposed to some who appear to make a sideline business out of shuttling. It may well be that a lower cost shuttle could be available, but some of these folks may also not be as available or able to work from your schedule. Still probably worth a call.

[greyowl]

Interesting question and one that I have struggled with. I offer shuttles and the longest shuttle was from Delaware Water Gap to Harpers Ferry. I charged $30 both times, the forst person also bought coffee and a bagel for me, I shared a pizza with the second person. Charged $5 for a shuttle from Wind Gap to Delaware Water Gap for a lady, two packs and a dog. I have also given free shuttles when I am hiking. I am out only to help section and through hikers, I want enough money to cover the cost of gas and if you have a good tale then I want to hear it. So you say look at his prices I want to use him. Well I have a real job so I shuttle only on weekends and on those weekends I am not hiking, or away on business. I have stopped shuttling because I do a lot of hiking in the fall.

The real bottom line is someone doing this to suppliment their income? A lot of people do do that and most of them charge around a dollar a mile (both ways) so $80 is pretty reasonable. Some people want to help the hikers and really don't need the money and a more reaonsable cost is $0.35 a mile (round trip ). Check out the ATC website, the companion, and the GATC website. Watch out, sometimme you get what you pay for.

Grey Owl

[Lone Wolf]

I get .75 per mile one way. Most charge 1.00 or more per mile. $60 from Neels to Big Stamp is high.

[Rain Man]

For my Springer-to-Neels Gap section hike in August I had local friends shuttle my van for me, from the USFS 42 parking lot (near the top of Springer) to the Byron Reece Memorial (parking lot near Walasi-Yi at Neels Gap).

They reported it took them over TWO HOURS to make that drive (not counting their own time to and from their home). I was surprised... and grateful. They did it for free and happily for me.

Anyway, shuttling takes time. That said, I don't know how much locals there charge for the service in general.

Rain Man

[smokymtnsteve]

fs 42 is a very slow road...

from atlanta folks get about 50 or 60 dollars to go to amicalola..and about 75 or 100 to go to springer...
so 60 dollars while not cheap is not too bad eithier....and if they are operating legally with a FS special use permit and will be on time and in a vehicle that will make it .. and the arrangements are easy ...you might not do much better.

[Skyline]

I live near Thornton Gap in the middle of Shenandoah National Park, and am happy to do short, local shuttles for free or at most for a few bucks for gas. Sometimes I also will drive hikers around town (Luray) to do their errands before getting them to a motel or back to the trail. During the last decade, over 100 have wound up staying on my porch or pitching a tent in my yard and I've even cooked for some of them, all for free. Typically, these are hikers already on the trail doing a thru-hike or a long section.

However, when I get phone calls (due to being listed in handbooks and on shuttle lists) from hikers planning their hike who want to go much further distances for what is often essentially their annual vacation, I expect to be compensated fairly for the time, fuel, wear-and-tear on my vehicle, and time taken away from my business which costs me money because I'm not being productive. Most hikers understand and accept this concept, a few don't.

As a now-finished section hiker, I've been on the other side of this issue also. I expected to pay AT LEAST $1 a mile for shuttles, and if the driver was going far out of his way, a fair additional amount.

[Ankle Bone]

As a section hiker, I couldn't agree more with Skyline. It is usually my annual vaction, and I assume I'm going to spend $60-120 on a shuttle. I also don't expect the same discounts/services as a thru-hiker since they are out there for the long haul and are more deserving of any trail magic or extra favors. The shuttle costs may be the most expensive part of the trip, but the camp site prices can't be beat!

One thing I always try to do is locate the shuttle driver who is closest to my finish spot and hire him/her to drive me back to the start. This decreases their mileage and time and can in turn decrease the price. And the conversation to the trail-head start is always worth the cost.

And there's nothing wrong with tippping since these folks are so necessary to the hiking community.

[Lone Wolf]

Thru-hikers are not special or more deserving. Actually they are more demanding and expect discounts. Not all, but a lot of them. I'll deal with section hikers any day.

[Skyline]

It's not that I do free or low-cost trail magic for thru-hikers because I think they're more "deserving," but it's just that what a hiker ALREADY ON THE TRAIL usually needs from me or someone like me is something I can do in a shorter period of time, over much shorter miles. Typically, they need a ride into town, just a few miles away, to do some errands or get a room, see a doctor, get their dog to a vet, pickup a maildrop, etc. and then get back to the A.T. the same day or next day. I can often do this without eating into my work schedule very much, but those requiring longer shuttles cause me to be away from my business for between a few hours to a full day. Somebody has to pay for that.

Case in point: a THRU-hiker wanted to get off the Trail at Thornton Gap last year and skip ahead to Pen-Mar to catch up with friends (we can save discussions of yellow-blazing for another thread). I quoted her the same pricing as I would have for a vacationer or section hiker wanting to go that distance. She decided that was a ripoff and called me a few choice names before she hung up, but again, it wasn't about the type of hike SHE was doing but rather the type/distance of shuttle she wanted ME to do.

[Ankle Bone]

Note to self: Don't agree or support. It can only get you into trouble.

To clarify my point, I was only looking at this from my limited perspective. As a section hiker, I always know when I'm going to start, when I'll stop, and how many days I'll be out. Granted, that can change due to a number of things, but most of the time 1 week on the trail is fairly pedictable and one needs little magic/support, etc. It's nice, just not necessary.

On the other hand, I would guess that the world of the thru hiker is much different and more unpredictable things occur where help/magic/support is needed. This is why I would expect people to be more willing to go out of their way to help a thru hiker. Granted, a jerk is a jerk, and if a thru hiker acts like one, he/she should be treated accordingly.

I'm going to go home now, make a bowl of liptons and canned chicken, and visualize a white blaze....

[greyowl]

As a good will jester one should always offer to pay for gas, whether they are hitching or getting a 'free' ride. There has been way too much negative comments this year about thru hikers and a little goodwill goes along way.

Skyline has a wonderful reputation and I would highly recommend him if you are in his neck of the woods.

Grey Owl

[jshort]

I've done shuttling for 2 years...last year I had 5-6, if I remember correctly.

My stated fee was "Whatever you can afford"... simply thinking that, I didn't want to rip them off at the start of their journey and besides, its not like this was paying the bills ! In addition, I liked talking to people about their reasons. If I was pressed, I would state between $40-50.

This year, I am posting that amount as my fee and then including the "Whatever you can afford" line.

Jeff

PS - For driving a pair of women to Springer on that gosh-darn FS 42 (with a rental car, no less), I did get $100; was willing to accept $40.

[Uncle Wayne]

We paid $50 to be shuttled from Blood Mountain Cabins at Neels Gap to Big Stamp with an offer to stop for breakfast and a tour of downtown Dahlognega (spelling not correct). The shuttle took 1 hour and 15 minutes. We used 81 year old Mr. Gene Hamilton of Hiwassee, GA. Good conversation enroute and he drove the same speed on the rough FS road 42 as he did on the four lane highway, wide ass open! That's not to say he was dangerous or anything, he just drove considerably faster than I would have on those crooked roads!
I'd use him again if I needed a shuttle in that section. While I was checking around I didn't find anyone except Mr. Hamilton willing to drive to Big Stamp because the road is so rough. Most want to drop you off at the top of the falls in the Amicacola (spelling again!) State Park.

[Miss Janet]

Legal situations vary all up and down the AT and as I found this past season ... quoting a set price may cause you legal headaches unless you are a liscensed business with commercial insurance. (Which I have been for years) Even these simple guidelines vary county by county and most people will not know about trouble until it is on the doorstep.
"Just what you can afford." "Shuttles are by donation only"... These somewhat vague statements may make your planning a little frustrating but the person may be protecting themselves. Remember that all people providing shuttle services have considerable expenses beyond just gas. Time, insurance, oil changes, repairs and other maintainance all add up. So be fair so that person can continue to help hikers out in the future.
1$ per mile seems to be the average. Section hikers are better about paying fairly for rides than a lot of thruhikers. Thruhikers should remember to budget a good amount for shuttles because they WILL end up paying for rides.

[Jaybird]

Sasquatch:

Shuttle costs are as varied as the people doing the driving!

In 2002, i was quoted a price of $2. per mile for a ride to Springer from Dahlonega....(we didnt take that "good deal"..we drove ourselves & left the car in Springer parking lot for a week)....

this year,2003,....2 of us (me & "Jigsaw") paid $105. for a shuttle from Nantahala Outdoor Center to USFS 71 (Neels Gap NC)...(we felt cheated after finding out this shuttle driver was on her way home anway....

i've heard...take it for what its worth...the going rate is usually $1. per mile.
anything under that is a "BARGAIN!"

and in that vein...i did a 4 day section hike (with my good bud: "TeePee") from Clingmans Dome to Hampton, TN where we stayed @ Kincora Hostel (probably the nicest people in the world run this hostel: Bob & Pat Peoples)
They provided us with F-R-E-E shuttle service to town & back....TWICE!


but, as Miss Janet says in the above posting...most of these shuttle providers/drivers are private citizens....some are hikers....& they have NO set price.....shop around.

[A-Train]

and in that vein...i did a 4 day section hike (with my good bud: "TeePee") from Clingmans Dome to Hampton, TN where we stayed @ Kincora Hostel (probably the nicest people in the world run this hostel: Bob & Pat Peoples)
They provided us with F-R-E-E shuttle service to town & back....TWICE!


Clingmans to Hampton in 4 days!!??! Thats got to be about 50 miles a day!

[Jaybird]

Ooooooooooops!

...make that Carvers Gap to Hampton,TN!


50 miles a day??????????????

on a good day...i'm hoping to break my 17.2 mile day record!
hehehehehehehe


Jaybird

[Tabasco]

Hard to beat FREE though. I called some friends from Gainesville, they picked me up at Reece Parking lot, drove me through Duhlonega, in the midst of Gold Rush Days Festival too I might add, took me to the Falls, walked around a bit with them them started walking.

[Alligator]

Here's an idea for solo section hikers. Even at $1.00 a mile, section hiking the AT translates to $2000.00 in shuttle costs, approximately. I have taken to bringing my mountain bike on some sections and using it to shuttle between endpoints. It's best to do the bike run first, before hiking. It helps to have a good map, like the Gazetteer for route planning. A good light is also required. With a reasonable fitness level, a 30 mile shuttle can be biked in 2-3 hours.