New pad from B.A.

[Repeat]

http://www.bigagnes.com/str-rempads-aci.shtml
The above link is to a new air pad by B.A. filled with primaloft---72 inch long mummy weighs 20oz. however is only 20 inches wide. I have contacted the company to see if there is any possiblity of making this pad in a wider, mummy version for use in hammocks. Even with the narrow width, this is a very interesting product. AT 20oz, it is light and provides versitility in that it can be used to sleep in a shelter or on the ground. It is also rated to 15 degrees F. so during spring thru fall, a quilt would suffice, saving even more weight. I really enjoy sleeping in my H.H. and beleive this would be a good solution (light weight and versitle) at a good price--$65.
Repeat
Just for Today

[Youngblood]

Pacific Outdoor Products has a similar model called the Max Thermal that I have been eyeing. It is also a new product and I haven't seen one yet. It will be interesting to see how they how up long term to the moisture accumulation when one orally inflates it day after day. I know my Platypus water bottle with the small mouth takes forever to dry out while my MSR water bottle with the big mouth drys out in a day.

Youngblood

[MedicineMan]

I've been using and a fan of Primaloft for years- if you look up the manuf. specs you will see that it cannot adsorb moisture anywhere near what down can, plus on a sunny/hot day leave the valve open and 'cook' the moisture out. These products seem like great competitors to the DAM and other down filled pads.....but 20oz is still 20oz. and for hammocking a down underquilt can be had for 10oz. and it is easier on the stomach to say 'a little over half a pound' then 'almost a pound and a half'....

[MedicineMan]

Just to let you all know I beamed an e-mail to BigAgnes asking them to be the first to introduce a primaloft hammock camping pad that is WIDER in the shoulder area...of course I offered to beta test it! Doubt I will get a response but if I do I will post it here.

[Repeat]

The following is my email and reply from Big Anges:

egarding: New primaloft air pads
>
> Message:
> Good morning,
> Wow, what a great product. I beleive this will be a big seller for your
> company. Is there ny chance you will make one of these pads for hammock
> campers. It would need to be wider---perhaps 28 to 30 inches and mummy
> shaped. This would be the \"perfect\" pad for people who use
> hammocks---light and simple to use, and versatile--could be used to sleep in
> shelters or on the ground. Currently many \"hammock hangers\" are spending
> hundreds of dollars on elaborate systems designed to keep them warm in
> their hammocks. I believe there is a big market for this pad, designed
> specifically for hammocks. If I can be of any assistance, please feel free
> to contact me.

response:
Jackie,

Thanks a bunch for your email. We'll look into a hammock specific Air Core.

Talk with you soon,

Bill

[MedicineMan]

I also e-mailed BA about a pad for the hammock, but acknowleded in that e-mail that the hammock market in reality is still a small one compared to groundwellers....but that they could offer a much small pad, rectangular shaped, marketed to those who hike with dogs, and that this pad could be used to shape the Sgt Rock 'T' pad where the smaller pad is placed per pendicularly under the longer pad creating the 'T' and that the wings of the T will prevent hammock coldwrap...this extra pad could of course be used as a sit pad on mini-breaks, pack framing material, etc.
MedicineMan

[Youngblood]

Pacific Outdoors Equipment has a similar bag called the Max Thermal:

http://www.pacoutdoor.com/index.cfm?...D=1&familyID=1

Youngblood

[Repeat]

Another possible solution would be to use 2 pieces of closed cell foam, 6 inches by 20 inches (wings), similary to some pics Youngblood has posted. Rather than a large piece of foam all the way under the Air Core pad, just connect the 2 "wing pieces of foam with 1 inch nylon straps (attached to the foam with epoxy). The straps would be long enough to go under the Air Core pad and hold the wings in place. This might be overly complex, given that a piece of closed cell foam, 3/8 by 20 by 30 would only weigh about 4 oz. I use the closed cell foam pad currently for spring and fall, but it creates some condesation issues, so I am very interested in the primaloft air core pad. The air core pad would be more comfortable than the closed cell pad if I needed to sleep on the ground. I am considering also purchasing the BA Horse Thief (1lb 11oz). Combined with the primaloft pad and foam wings for the shoulders, this would be a pretty ideal system for 3 season use with my HH.
My combined weight for Gearskin, HH, and sleep system would be 7.3 lbs which is the empty weight of the Oprey pack I was using last year.

[peter_pan]

There are any number of ways to cut pads to use in hammocks. I have about 10 different models. I sweat on every one of them, even in temps into the 20s. I sleep under a down quit and directly on the pad. The sensible sweat just always creates a "damp" condition on these closed cell pads. An under-quilt is the solution. My 2" down under-quilt and nothing else has excelled over 6 january nites in VA and FL ranging from low 30s to mid 60s in this last month. Yes, it is for a HH. No sweating. No squirming to get a pad perfectly under you. And, no waking up with a cold spot when the pad shifts ( real problem w/ thermorests). NO pad means a dedication to "never going to ground". With an 8x10 silnyl tarp and proper site selection there is no reason to go to ground below treeline. HH asym,less stock tarp, plus 8x10 silnyl tarp is 37 oz, under-quilt is 14 oz, 20 degree quilt is 23 oz. Total is 74 oz or 4.6 lb. During summer I substitute a modified military poncho liner quilt/cerape at 13 oz. This takes shelter and sleep system to exactly 4 lbs.

[papa john]

Is your underquilt your design or what? Any pictures of it?

[MedicineMan]

Go to the yahoo group hammockcamping...there you will find many solutions to sleeping in the cold...some have hammocked to -5F and colder...this past Monday night I was actually hot in my setup but it was only 29F....you will find that there are many varied solutions but in the end it is WORTH IT!!!
We slugged 10 miles in snow and ice, ice so bad for the first 4 miles you could barely stand on it, probably expended nearly 10,000 calories each day but upon waking in the hammock it was as if I didnt hike the day before...it is that good...and think of the AT-millions of trees and therefore inumerable places to hammock...too many times in the past I scoured for a place to tent, now it is almost too easy (but you will have to study your options when it comes time to hang)....I, like many have tried all known solutions to hammocking in the cold. I was lucky to have a WM Ponderosa that will completely envelope the hammock much like the Speer Pod, this allows you to be in the hammock and not crush the insulation and in the end pods are the ultimate for winter camping...pads WILL work, La AquaNa used a pad in a HH this same night as did fine but she admitted that 29-30 was borderline for comfort-but she could have used a thicker pad and a wider pad....the bitch with pads is staying on them and getting one wide enough to prevent 'cold-wrap' and then tying the thing onto the backpack....with underquilts that is not a problem.....your first step should be to learn of the Garlington Taco and its use....it is a quick and cheap way to hold insulation against the bottom of the hammock that also blocks wind and rain....the insulation can be anything you want it to be-from an old sleeping bag, cheapo walmart insulation, clothes, part. inflatted garbage bags, leaves and so on. Down underquilts rule, so easily compressed for packing, so warm and chances are most rain wont come back up to hit the bottom and I dont have to tell you that a down underquilt is light..and with current technology the down underquilt is the only thing that outperforms the close cell pads in terms of weight, but you dont have to tie it on the pack and it wont stick out like a pad of nominal width will and hit limbs/etc.
The first time I got into an HH I said to myself WOW! After the first night's sleep in it I was totally impressed and swore I would not sleep on the ground again, nor in a shelter--well I've rehiked the Smokies since so I had to eat my words and stay in a shelter but you get the picture.
Currently White Knight is making down underquilts, you can see his work at the hammockcamping group as well, and Risk is there too, you will see that he is the most adventerous among hammockers in terms of inventiveness and pushing the envelope.
I had one hiker tell me that he didnt want to have to fool with the lines, the fit and the hassle.....but even if it did take 20mins to setup isnt 8-10hrs of good effective sleep/rest worth it? well it wont take you 20 minutes either!
MedicineMan

[Smee]

Is your underquilt your design or what? Any pictures of it?

I posted a picture of our underquilt in the photo section under the hammock camping section. That's Peter Pan in the hammock.

[Crash]

I had one hiker tell me that he didnt want to have to fool with the lines, the fit and the hassle.....but even if it did take 20mins to setup isnt 8-10hrs of good effective sleep/rest worth it? well it wont take you 20 minutes either!
MedicineMan

What's 20 mins - that hiker probably spends at least an hour pitching his tent and making sure every rock is out from under him, then fixes his blowup pad,
Or rolls around during the night for more than an hour to get comfortable.

The hammock is the wave of the future. Never had a bad nights sleep in my hammock, even when it was pouring outside.

But hey some people like living in the dark ages.

[Footslogger]

I have gloves and a pullover filled with primaloft and they are both warm and very comfortable. The primaloft works well as long as it has the ability to expand and get puffy.

One observation I would make about a primaloft pad though is that once you lay on it the filling is compressed and it's insulating properties are very likely to be significantly decreased. That's the same for goose down. Once goose down or primaloft gets compressed it only has a fraction of it's warmth rating.

Your experience may vary but without some sort of inflatable or closed cell foam pad beneath it I would imagine that the underside of a primaloft mat would be a tad cool.

Then again ...a primaloft pad with some sort of wind resistant cover might be a great system in a hammock. I tried the hammock thing using an inflatable mattress and the mylar covered bubblepack but could never get comforable on those really cold nights. Maybe I should have experimented with some primaloft.

[Repeat]

I have been using the BA Insulated AC pad since April 04. Measured weight, with stuff sack and repair kit---20.4 oz. for the 72 inch mummy. I have used the pad in a shelter on the AT and several nights in my Hennessy Hammock. The pad is extremely comfortable, more so than my Thermarest LE. The pad also is very easy to deflate and packs to the size of a six-pack of bagels. The low temp. for my use was around 45 degrees. In the hammock I sleep directly on the pad and use my sleeping bag as a quilt. I have no problems staying on the matress in the hammock---same situation as staying on the pad when used in a shelter. An interesting note---most reviews and comments suggest not to fully inflate, so as to be more confortable. When inflating the mattress the air entering, from the lungs, is very warm. As the air in the mattress cools, the mattress will deflate to some extent. I fully inflate the mattress. After a few minutes the air in the mattress contracts as it cools and the mattress become less firm. This is important when using in a hammock as there will be more cooling. I am very pleased with this pad----versatility (great for the ground and in a hammock), comfort, weight, and packed size. As a side note the thickness of the pad greatly reduces the effect of "shoulder wrap" when used in a hammock. I am just as comfortable using the pad in the hammock as I am with no pad in the hammock. I am a dedicated "hammock hanger" but do not want to "go out" without the option to sleep on the ground or in a shelter so having a pad is a must for me. This pad, at $65, is a true bargain.

[Glee]

Currently White Knight is making down underquilts, you can see his work at the hammockcamping group as well, and Risk is there too, you will see that he is the most adventerous among hammockers in terms of inventiveness and pushing the envelope.
MedicineMan

I have searched the Yahoo hammockcamping group and was unable to find White Knight and his underquilt... Do you know the link and if he is still making them. I know this is a older thread but I'm looking at things I can do to stay warm.. Thanks

[Youngblood]

I have searched the Yahoo hammockcamping group and was unable to find White Knight and his underquilt... Do you know the link and if he is still making them. I know this is a older thread but I'm looking at things I can do to stay warm.. Thanks

Glee,

If my memory is correct, White Knight took half the money up front for about 10 of these underquilts without the down in them (he was offering to sell the down shells which you would stuff yourself). He didn't deliver the underquilt shells, return the money or offer a believable explaination, seems like he made one 'heart sobbing excuse' for being late and then just disappeared. If someone offers you one of those... beware.

Now, Hennessy Hammocks, Clark Hammocks, Speer Hammocks, Jacks R Us and Brian Mc? have excellent reputations and people on the web sites that I frequent have had nothing but great things to say about doing business with them.

Youngblood

[Glee]

Thanks Youngblood,

After doing some searching here on underquilts I came across the thread about him taking off... I'm sure it will come back to bite him in the butt some day...

[MedicineMan]

WhiteKnight was poison...the only business encounter on the net where I've been taken.....dont fart around on this...go to Jacks-r-Better and get the goods from trustworthy men.

[Youngblood]

WhiteKnight was poison...the only business encounter on the net where I've been taken.....dont fart around on this...go to Jacks-r-Better and get the goods from trustworthy men.

Medicine Man,

I think you were one of the ones that got nothing for their money but disappointment. I watched without participating... I think most of us, and that probably includes you, from the beginning worried that White Knight had commited to do something that he might not be capable off because he really needed money. I suspect he thought/hoped he could actually deliver the goods, but found out he couldn't do what he thought he could and just let it drop. Needing commitments and half the money up front from ten(?) people so he could buy the materials had everyone a little nervous about the venture. I think that if White Knight had of fessed up to what the situation was that most folks wouldn't have been bitter, but I don't recall him doing that. I think he just dropped out and tried to disappear... like a thief, instead of someone who wasn't able to do what he had promised and try to recify things as best he could. I think he went on one of Ed Speer's hammock campouts that was near Ed's home, even showed Ed his prototype and visited where Ed was making his stuff, so I think he intended to produce them.

Youngblood