Food in tents

[Summit]

you gotta give the rope enough slack so that the rock falls far enough down that it doesn't swing back around the branch. mostly easier said than done. but practice makes perfect, i reckon. i personally don't use this method as it seems like over kill. i mean really. who needs the extra weight the carbiner puts in your pack? if you REALLY feel like you need to hang your food, do the rockbag thing and throw it over a branch. once you've done this, change out the rockbag for your foodbag and take the other end of the rope and pull on it until the food bag goes up in the air and then tie it off on another tree.

Finding a good tree is not always easy, nor always as close to camp as you'd like. Add to it the hassle of rock/rope tossing, etc. is precisely why I use a bear vault now-a-days. I did the above for 34 years. I'm retired from that now!

[kanga]

ahh, see you left out the less weight than ever part the first time!
i also like the campchair part of it, but did you have an encounter with a bear that led you to this choice or is it just preventative?

[Berserker]

you gotta give the rope enough slack so that the rock falls far enough down that it doesn't swing back around the branch. mostly easier said than done. but practice makes perfect, i reckon. i personally don't use this method as it seems like over kill. i mean really. who needs the extra weight the carbiner puts in your pack? if you REALLY feel like you need to hang your food, do the rockbag thing and throw it over a branch. once you've done this, change out the rockbag for your foodbag and take the other end of the rope and pull on it until the food bag goes up in the air and then tie it off on another tree. if the bear can figure out to go to the other tree and untie the rope, let him have the food. he obviously needs it more than you do.

In general I agree with you. It’s that one in a million incident that changes your mind, and I had that happen. I did the hang my food bag over a branch and tie the other end of the cord off to a tree thing, and actually had a raccoon chew through the cord where it was tied to the tree trunk. Those are some stinking smart little buggers. They were harassing us most of the evening though, and probably “watched” as I was hanging my food.

That was all it took to interest me in the PCT method. Like I said, it’s not for everyone. I don’t mind it cause it gives me something to do when I am cooking or hanging out in camp (I typically try to make camp with a couple of hours of light left). I can usually throw the rock over the tree limb in a couple of tries so it is not a big deal, but occasionally I have one of those 20 try nights. All I can say is that once I have the food hanging in the tree using that method the only worry I have about my food is the tree falling down (i.e. I don’t worry about the food).

Thanks for posting the link to the PCT method by the way.

[Summit]

ahh, see you left out the less weight than ever part the first time!
i also like the campchair part of it, but did you have an encounter with a bear that led you to this choice or is it just preventative?

Only bear encounter I had was a brown in Yosemite who cleaned me out. Went up the tree and broke the limb on a perfectly hung bag of food. Took a considerable fall, but obviously considered it worth it!

I didn't really have "bear" in mind when deciding to go with a vault. It was more about the other nuisance critters and the hassle/worry of hanging food. How do you measure the price (in weight) of eliminating worry? It's awesome to have absolutely no cares/concerns about your food during a hike (other than what shall I eat next!)

[kanga]

Oh, Lord! Now see, I would definitely go for the container out west with the browns, but I've never had a problem in the Apps and I've been hiking since I was 7. Honestly, I think the only time I've even hung my food was in Girl Scouts or in the Smokies. I know, there's a first time for everything.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Only bear encounter I had was a brown in Yosemite who cleaned me out. Went up the tree and broke the limb on a perfectly hung bag of food. Took a considerable fall, but obviously considered it worth it!

I didn't really have "bear" in mind when deciding to go with a vault. It was more about the other nuisance critters and the hassle/worry of hanging food. How do you measure the price (in weight) of eliminating worry? It's awesome to have absolutely no cares/concerns about your food during a hike (other than what shall I eat next!)

I think I'd still be concerned about where I cooked and where I cached the canister for the night. Can't say I'd want a curious hungry bear playing hacky sack with the darn thing right outside a tent or shelter all night.

[general]

rock, rope, pct method, or what ever. if you really want to keep the bears out of your food just hike with a big angry pit bull. works for me.

[4eyedbuzzard]

This thread already went to the dogs.

[TIDE-HSV]

I still think they must be able to smell the food on our packs and clothing no matter how careful we are when cooking and eating and hiking along.

After association, even the smell doesn't matter. They will go for objects that they've associated with food in the past. When the bear took my wife's pack in the Smokey's, we had the packs outside, unzipped (no mouse chew-through) but covered. The bear recognized them anyway. It made a play for mine earlier in the night, but I woke up and chased it off. When it picked up my wife's pack, the Ziplok which had her drinking tube for her water bottle in it. This bag had never been used for food. It was in an outside pocket. It fell out, and the bear picked it up and bit it several times. Ziplok=food. BTW, this incident was when I first decided that 10' was not enough. I'd hung our food at about that height (I used to hang and finish sheetrock, so I know heights), and what waked me up the next AM was a "bong-bong" sound. When I looked outside, the bear was jumping for our food/garbage bag and barely could reach the empty French canteens hanging low and was playing drummer with them. Although this was the biggest black bear I've ever seen, I made a mental note of "twelve feet" from now on, even though they can't jump more than 6" or so. I ran him off, but he'd taken the pack too far off to find it, although I wasted an hour looking. Now, I agree that this thread has gone to the dogs. I'm discussing bear behavior with people who have no knowledge at all beyond what they've read somewhere. I'd promised myself not to look at it again, and I broke the promise. This time, I'll not do it again...

[Montego]

After association, even the smell doesn't matter. They will go for objects that they've associated with food in the past. When the bear took my wife's pack in the Smokey's, we had the packs outside, unzipped (no mouse chew-through) but covered. The bear recognized them anyway. It made a play for mine earlier in the night, but I woke up and chased it off. When it picked up my wife's pack, the Ziplok which had her drinking tube for her water bottle in it. This bag had never been used for food. It was in an outside pocket. It fell out, and the bear picked it up and bit it several times. Ziplok=food. BTW, this incident was when I first decided that 10' was not enough. I'd hung our food at about that height (I used to hang and finish sheetrock, so I know heights), and what waked me up the next AM was a "bong-bong" sound. When I looked outside, the bear was jumping for our food/garbage bag and barely could reach the empty French canteens hanging low and was playing drummer with them. Although this was the biggest black bear I've ever seen, I made a mental note of "twelve feet" from now on, even though they can't jump more than 6" or so. I ran him off, but he'd taken the pack too far off to find it, although I wasted an hour looking. Now, I agree that this thread has gone to the dogs. I'm discussing bear behavior with people who have no knowledge at all beyond what they've read somewhere. I'd promised myself not to look at it again, and I broke the promise. This time, I'll not do it again...

Personally, I'm not one of those people who feel that they "know it all". Each persons experience can be a tidbit of knowlege that is filed away for future reference. It can be argued that the best teacher is first hand experience, though I find that learning from the experience of others can avoid a lot of unnecessary 'bad happenings'. Thanks TIDE-HSV for posting YOUR experiences.

[sofaking]

i've found that bear bagging my food IN my tent, spritzing a little capsacin on the pits and pubes and peeing all over the tent will keep bears away.

[Panzer1]

A quick look at this data pretty much rules out any relationship between age or gender of the victims of bear attacks. In fact, most victims are younger adults (which makes sense as they tend to represent the outback population more) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rica_by_decade

Well, after reading this article maybe I will have to concede that its not just the old and weak that are mostly attacked. The victims do seem to be people of every age group and even a fair number of "young physically fit adults", so maybe I'll have to back off on that one.

But still, that bear container isn't going to save your butt if a bear wants you. For the weight I think you would be better off with a gun than a bear container.

Panzer

[Panzer1]

Now, I agree that this thread has gone to the dogs. I'm discussing bear behavior with people who have no knowledge at all beyond what they've read somewhere. I'd promised myself not to look at it again, and I broke the promise. This time, I'll not do it again...

I don't know, sounds maybe just a little bit condescending.

Panzer

[Appalachian Tater]

i've found that bear bagging my food IN my tent, spritzing a little capsacin on the pits and pubes and peeing all over the tent will keep bears away.

No wonder bears keep attacking me. I've had it backwards and have been peeing all over my pits and pubes and spritzing capsaicin on my tent!

[Appalachian Tater]

Yes, of course your right, but bears can differentiate between the strong and the week, the old and the young, and the sick and the healthy. Because that's what all predators can do.

In the one case cited above a 9 year old child was attacked and if I recall in one of the other attacks it was an elderly woman who was killed.

AT thru hikers tend not to fall into either of these categories. AT thru hikers tend to be strong, physically fit and independent people who don't look a lot like prey items.

Panzer

I read somewhere that hikers move like a wounded deer as far as a bear is concerned. I don't know how the person who wrote it knows what bears think, but it made sense at the time.

[sofaking]

No wonder bears keep attacking me. I've had it backwards and have been peeing all over my pits and pubes and spritzing capsaicin on my tent!

it's a learning curve thing, just like everything else...you gotta be careful about that capsacin on your tent though, you might forget it's on there and touch your eye after packing in the morning...

[Bear Cables]

i promise i'm not trying to be a smart aleck even though it's probably going to sound that way, but i'm really just curious:
do you HONESTLY carry a 2ob 9oz cannister with you when you hike? everyone has their own choices to make and i'm not knocking yours, i'm just wondering how you came to your decision to do so. i mean, crushed food is my last worry on a long distance hike, so are mice. i get the bear thing, but it seems like 2.5 lbs is a high price to pay.

I have made the decision to carry a 2lb 5 oz bear canister because I know we will be hiking long days on this trek and I get anxious about finding the right branch, throwing at all that when it's getting dark. It eases my worries to know I just need to store and place the can away from camp. Sort of like - Bear Canister - 2 lbs 5 oz Peace of mind -priceless!

I have also pared down my total pack weight including food and water to 26 lbs. Gave up some items I usually pack like a crazy creek chair and a self inflating pad( I using a Z Rest cut in half for both sitting and sleeping at 8 oz) and purchased a 1 lb 5 oz bag and a 1lb 5 oz Contrail tent tarp. So I'm really not packing anymore and definitely less weight than previous hikes.

[sofaking]

if anybody wants to give you grief about your bear can out on the trail you can throw it at them and 'bonk' them in the head with it. hmm, you could do that to bears as well...bear bowling, kind of like aversion therapy for the bear.

[Bear Cables]

I think I'd still be concerned about where I cooked and where I cached the canister for the night. Can't say I'd want a curious hungry bear playing hacky sack with the darn thing right outside a tent or shelter all night.

My plan it to place the canister the same distance from camp as I would hang a rope. That way I won't know the bear is playing hack sack unless I see the canister moved in the AM

[4eyedbuzzard]

'zactly