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Last edited by Bulldawg; 09-22-2008 at 22:56. Reason: Quoted Post Gone
I happen to love the SVEA 123 too.
Last edited by Bulldawg; 09-22-2008 at 22:56. Reason: Quoted post deleted
When sitting around a campsite or shelter area, talking with others about the day, as the sun would begin to set, and just and just taking in the peace. Suddenly someone sits down at the picnic table, and pulls out a dragonfly. Well, everyone finish up your conversations for awhile, because here comes my pick for the most obnoxious stove on the trail.
The new MSR's are shaker-jet equipped, which greatly reduced the sooting and clogging in the older MSR's. I haven't had to clean my Dragonfly in the last 3 years, and I bought it used.
The Dragonfly supports are 2.75" between them. My 700 Ti solo cookset is 3.5", the same diameter as a 1L Nalgene, so there isn't a lot of room left. But, if you bend the supports in a little it works fine, or you can use a diffuser, which will ensure a non-burning surface.
I don't have a problem with my Dragonfly for solo or group cooking, I love it. And while it can be loud, it's not THAT loud, just louder than most stoves. I think it's leaps and bounds above the Whisperlite or Simmerlite, of which I also own.
On the pots over the fire, an old Boy Scout trick is to rub soap all over the outside before you put it over the fire. Any bar soap will work, I keep some from Hotels around just for this purpose. After the meal, the soot wipes right off, no scrubbing necessary. All of my pots still look great.
For cleaning your old pots, get some "Barkeepers Friend", available almost anywhere (it looks like Ajax or Boraxo, but is MUCH better). It works like a charm and better than oven cleaner in most instances. Oven cleaner is mostly just caustic soda (sodium hydroxide) and while it is a great chemical, it's not a great cleaner by itself.
I figured most WBers have heard my rant on the fabulous, venerable Svea, but one more time, for the newbies...
It's way overrated. I owned one for years (1975-1988.) It was cranky and noisy from the get-go. It's a miracle I didn't burn down the White Mountains with it. The Svea was chucked, "with extreme prejudice" shortly after I picked up a Whisperlite in 1988. The Whisperlite is still going strong, and never once failed me on the trail. In short: my experience is precisely the opposite of yours.
Full disclosure: I used a Zip (wood-burning) stove between 2002 and 2005, and a cannister stove (Pocket Rocket) on last year's long AT section. The Whisperlite is semi-retired, but I make a point of firing it up now and then, just for sch1tz and giggles. I also own a late-model Simmerlite, and a Tin Man (AntiGravityGear) alky stove, because you can never have enough stoves.
PS: Inspired by this post, I dug up and fired up the Whisperlite one more time, on the back porch. No problems.
Last edited by Bulldawg; 09-22-2008 at 22:59. Reason: Quote deleted
Well, western US climbers have adopted the exact opposite opinion on the SVEA, many have been MSR'ed one time too many.Originally Posted by _terrapin_
Last edited by Bulldawg; 09-22-2008 at 23:00. Reason: Quote edited
Ah, grasshopper, I wish I had a dime for every time I fumbled for the Svea's crank key on its cute little chain, or every cut, burn or blood blister incurred from attaching or removing the top half of that bugger to get at the burner, or fiddling with those blasted pot-support prongs at the top. But yes indeed, time has erased some of the memories of the Svea, except for one particular fireball which did indeed scare the bejezus outta me and which may well have been a news item if not for sheer luck. I just don't get the whole Svea Cult thing. The Whisperlite struck me as a high-tech marvel the first time I saw it, and it impressed the hell out of me the first time I used it on the trail. The Svea was trashed with no regrets.
I'm rather conservative with my camp gear. I didn't retire my 1988-vintage Camp Trails pack until 2007. I tried for years to "upgrade" it, without success. Similar story with my tent (Eureka Gossamer, 20 yrs old, 100% reliable, still functional.) But the relationship with the Svea was always one of wary tolerance.
I'm not exactly sure when the Whisperlite was first introduced on the market -- but I became aware of it in 1988. I have to admit that the Svea generally did its job, but I was never in awe of it, and was accustomed to (figuratively and literally) being burned by it.
Last edited by Bulldawg; 09-22-2008 at 23:01. Reason: Quote removed
It’s on the end of a 2-inch chain, how hard can it be to find & use?
I don’t want to get into a big debate that throws jabs at each other over a stove. It carries into other threads, it will end up getting this thread locked and stop a good thread on stoves and while I don’t agree with your view of the Svea (as I’m sure you don’t agree with my opinion of MSR stoves) I think we all should post our opinions so others can wade through the post and make their own decision. I hope we can do it peaceably and if a post bothers either one of us we can simply not read it.
I agree Bob. Lets keep it civil. Its all fun guys...just opinions really !! Take care.
Last edited by Bulldawg; 09-22-2008 at 23:01. Reason: Inappropriate
It's been like 20 years so my memory's kinda hazy, Bob. No keys or chains on the Whisperlite, I'm happy to report.
Gotta agree with the SVEA crowd on this one. Used the same SVEA for close to 30 years. Only reason I don't still use it is because the alcohols are so much lighter, and I do simple cooking for one. For groups or winter, the SVEA is still my stove of choice. I own a Wisperlite, but never developed a liking for it - lots to go wrong with it, frequent cleaning needed, occasional lubing.
If the SVEA were as clunky and unreliable as some suggest here, then I doubt that they would have kept the same exact design since 1955 (they did add a built in cleaning needle about 1970). This stove is the longest-lived, unchanged design in outdoor gear that I know of. Must have got it right the first time, cause it is still being sold for just under $100.
For small group or winter trips, the SVEA can't be beat.
I thought the Svea was relatively small (with 'built on' pot), which would make it a poor choice for me when I have a small group along?
Haven't heard much about the Simmerlite, other than that a few people own them. Could any of these owners give their input or reviews please?
Thanks to the Dragonfly owners who have given theirs. This may be a possibility for me since we do most of our hikes and camps in the most remote areas we can find/stumble across, so I really don't think the noise will bother anyone other than the squirrels. Besides, the part of the AT we live by (up and down along Pine Grove, the 'unofficial' halfway) is mostly deserted by this time of the year.
It's very similar to the Whisperlite, but 2.5 oz. lighter, and a bit more expensive. The pump and fuel bottle are identical to (and interchangeable with) the Whisperlite. The burner unit is a bit different. Here are some measured weights (in oz.)Whisperlite burner unit 9.3Whisperlite on left, Simmerlite on right, shown with 11-oz fuel bottle.
Whisperlite pump unit 1.7
Whisperlite empty 22 oz bottle 4.0
TOTAL whisperlite 15.0
Simmerlite burner unit & pump 8.5
Whisperlite empty 11 oz bottle 2.8
TOTAL simmerlite 11.3
The SVEA comes with a small, one cup aluminum pot that acts as a cover for the stove. Some folks love 'em, I leave mine at home, thus saving a couple oz. You can use any pot you like on the SVEA and it will work fine.
The old Sigg Tourister Cook Kit included a wind screen/base, 1.5 qt and 2 qt (if I remember right) cookpots, fryingpan/lid. These all nested together and held the naked SEVA (stove wind screen can be left at home) inside. Using this system you could cook for an entire group. The cook pots were designed so that you could cook something in the larger, then cook something else in the smaller pot, using the larger for a lid and thus keeping the contents warm. The fry pan/lid was then placed on the top pot. Really an ingenious system for a group who likes to cook. Can still pick these up on ebay occasionally. Here's one available right now, includes the naked stove (no built in windscreen/pot support:
http://cgi.ebay.com/SIGG-TOURIST-CAMP-COOK-SET-AND-SVEA-123-SWEDEN-STOVE_W0QQitemZ250295294965QQcmdZViewItem?hash=ite m250295294965&_trkparms=72%3A1205|39%3A1|66%3A2|65 %3A12|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
One drawback to the SVEA without the Sigg cook kit. It is a small base, so you need to use care when cooking. In close to 30 years, I never recall dumping my dinner, but others have when they got careless. Similar to the care needed with alcohol stoves.
Edit: I just noticed the Cook Kit in the Ebay link seems to be missing one of the cook pots. Still looks like a decent deal.
Last edited by Lyle; 09-17-2008 at 09:20. Reason: Added a comment
I have a Simmerlite, it's a good stove for 2+ people. I don't carry it solo anymore except in the winter, but always bring mine or my buddy brings his when we go together. If you want to bring it solo, get the really small bottle for weekends, I think it's 11 ounces. I can get it to simmer, but I've seen others report the simmering wasn't great. You can crank it up and it's a lot quieter than a Dragonfly, those things practically scream. Fuel economy is good, the trick is if you are cooking for two, to keep the stove operating with food, back and forth between hiker meals. IMO the economy drops if you need to repeatedly prime it over the course of an evening. The weight is very good for a white gas stove. Canisters and alky stoves are lighter.
Yes, let's keep the discussion about the stoves. Thanks.
"Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
Call for his whisky
He can call for his tea
Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
Robert Hunter & Ron McKernan
Whiteblaze.net User Agreement.
Alligator-were you saying the Simemrlite needs repeated priming? This looks like it may be a good fit for me and my needs. Do you burn only white gas?
Lyle-that compact set was pretty cool and looks like a good setup. How do you keep the pots from falling off the Svea? It looks as though the top is tiny.
Do the Svea lovers use regular gasoline? Do you carry it in a regular fuel bottle, like the red MSR and how much for a weekend with a group?
Simmerlite, Whisperlite both need re-priming once the burner unit cools down. AFAIK, that's true for any white-gas stove, Svea included.
The priming step is probably where most folks go wrong with these stoves. IMO, the best approach is to let the priming flame die out completely before lighting the stove. Don't try to piggyback the normal stove operation from the priming operation. But do relight the stove as soon as possible after priming is complete.
Yes, when it cools off, it needs repriming. The Simmerlite is made to only use white gas, it's not a dual/multi- fuel stove.
"Sleepy alligator in the noonday sun
Sleepin by the river just like he usually done
Call for his whisky
He can call for his tea
Call all he wanta but he can't call me..."
Robert Hunter & Ron McKernan
Whiteblaze.net User Agreement.
Ok, The SVEA as sold by itself looks like this. This one has the wind screen/pot support attached. The small "L" shaped supports can be turned out to offer more stability for a larger pot, or left turned in to support a small cup. The small aluminum pot that comes with it fits (inverted) over the top of this.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/file.../svea_123r.jpg
The one being sold with the Sigg Cook Kit is the "naked SEVA" without the regular windscreen. The stove sits in the base of the cook kit, which then acts as the pot support.
If you want more versatility, get the stove complete with it's own wind screen/pot support - the way they are typically sold retail. You can always remove the wind screen and leave it home if you want to use the cook kit.
Sounds complicated, but it's not. The cook kit is normally considered an option, and not part of the stove. It's just on Ebay that this combo is being sold.
Regarding the fuel bottle. Yes you will need an aluminum or plastic fuel bottle designed for white gas. Sigg made em, MSR makes em, I think Coleman makes em too. They come in various sizes, at least pint and quart/liter. For very short trips, just the fuel in the stove tank will burn for roughly 30 - 45 minutes.
White gas (Coleman Fuel) is recommended and what I normally burn. Unleaded gasoline will work, but may tend to clog the stove or wick. I've burned it in a pinch with no ill effects.
Any other questions or clarifications needed, just ask.
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