Reasons to avoid shelters

[Homer&Marje]

Compared to a shelter floor, the forest floor is soft.

You ever slept at 13 Falls? Or one of the "extra runoff" spots at Guyot in the Whites? I have been to both places and I would have gladly taken the comparably softer, shelter floor vs. unmovable pointy rocks.

[rafe]

Compared to a shelter floor, the forest floor is soft.

Generally, yes. But it's also flat, which the forest floor generally isn't.

[Tin Man]

And why exactly does that concern you? I mean, seriously, in what way does someone else's "romantic notion" impact you or your hike? I mean, you clearly have a low opinion of what "others" may have inferred from their own experience. So please, don't try to claim that there's anything selfless or altruistic about your initial post. It won't wash.

what are you talking about? Hoop said his family wants to stay in a shelter. my statement was a simple suggestion that a first timer might have romantic notions about staying in a shelter that fades after they try it. if you continue to find romance in sleeping with mice, go ahead and talk about that. why do you feel the need to attack me? make your statement on the issue and quit talking trash about me or my motives. sheesh.

It's not like we're arguing about the best stove or sleeping bag or pack or tent. It's not a decision you need to make before your hike. Every hiker can decide for his or her self whether or not he or she wants to stay at a given shelter. Speaking personally -- it's often a choice that I don't make until I get there and look it over. If it's ugly, or if I don't care for the folks gathered there, or if I'd rather have the privacy of my tent that night, I move on. If it's nice, and it suits my mood or whim, I stay. Simple!

yes it is a choice. the thread is to share why people make comments in other threads why they avoid shelters. simple!

[MOWGLI]

You ever slept at 13 Falls? Or one of the "extra runoff" spots at Guyot in the Whites? I have been to both places and I would have gladly taken the comparably softer, shelter floor vs. unmovable pointy rocks.

Sorry. I usually don't select rock hard tent sites. Mother Earth provides. But by all means, sleep in a shelter if you like. That's why they are there.

[Homer&Marje]

I will agree, many spots are much much much softer than sleeping in a shelter. And I have enjoyed many of them. I have stayed outside of a shelter just with the tarp and a sleeping bag because of a huge pile of pine needles. I think it was collected just for that purpose.

I am sort of impartial in this thread, or trying to be, because I prefer a mix. Scrutinize you may.

[Jack Tarlin]

There are any number of wonderful places to overnight within a few minutes walk of the places you mentioned.

In my experience, people that complain about there not being good enough tent sites in a particular location haven't spent any time looking for them.

Except above treeline, ( and this means about a day and a half of the 180 days you'll be out there), if we're talking about on or near the A.T., nobody's forced to stay in a shelter. There's always an alternative.

[Homer&Marje]

There are any number of wonderful places to overnight within a few minutes walk of the places you mentioned.

In my experience, people that complain about there not being good enough tent sites in a particular location haven't spent any time looking for them.

Except above treeline, ( and this means about a day and a half of the 180 days you'll be out there), if we're talking about on or near the A.T., nobody's forced to stay in a shelter. There's always an alternative.

Actually, both times I have stayed at each of those sites was because someone in the group was injured. My first trip it was my fathers friend Ralph, this time it was Marje. Looking for a site with someone injured puts unnecessary strain. I was just commenting on the fact that some of the best tent sites, still aren't the most comfortable. If you bring a tent, and plan to use shelters, while your at a shelter what I like to do is lay out the tent under my pad as extra padding. Works real well.

[MOWGLI]

Generally, yes. But it's also flat, which the forest floor generally isn't.

Campsite selection is a learned skill. Some are better at it than others. Those that are willing to explore off trail after reading a map can often be rewarded with great sites. In my experience, most hikers aren't willing to search for a site if it's not within view from the trail. And yes, a perfectly flat spot isn't always available.

[Lone Wolf]

That's uncharacteristic of you to disagree. Pardon me, you said you've seen everything

hey kid, you gonna send me another immature hate-filled PM? grow up

[sasquatch2014]

I like to stop at the shelter use the table and camel up with water after cooking an early meal and then move on a few miles before setting up for the night, most of the time. There are times that I will stay at the shelter if the weather is bad I like this because it mean not packing up in the rain.

As far as the filth is concerned doesn't really bother me. Having lived for 3 years in a fraternity house and spending 4 summers sleeping in the bunk house next to the corral that during the day would hold as many as 200 horses it takes a lot to make me think twice about sleeping someplace. I don't care for the shelter mice but if you know a little about the mice sleeping a bit away from the walls helps a great deal with this problem.

What I like about pushing on is that you know there is no one that you will disturb if you get up in the night or for an early start. You can leave your headlight on and read as long as you like. Also you can choose the view that you go to bed to or wake up to, have spent more than a few nights looking down on the lights of towns in the valley.

[rafe]

Campsite selection is a learned skill. Some are better at it than others. Those that are willing to explore off trail after reading a map can often be rewarded with great sites. In my experience, most hikers aren't willing to search for a site if it's not within view from the trail. And yes, a perfectly flat spot isn't always available.

I agree with most of that... but if there's a nice empty shelter... or a shelter with sympatico, friendly hikers in it... I'm liable to take the lazy route and stay there.

There are circumstances, and not uncommon, where flat ground is difficult or impossible to find. The AT spends most of its time going up or going down hills and mountains. Flat ground is relatively easy to find at the peaks and in the valleys, but in-between, sometimes it gets dicey. Think sine wave. Flat ground easy at 90 degrees and 270. Not so easy at 0 and 180.

[Homer&Marje]

hey kid, you gonna send me another immature hate-filled PM? grow up

It wasn't hate filled. It was full of sarcasm and humor. Life is about perspective you see.

Quick to attack me for being younger though all the time. Is it cause I am bald and don't have facial hair that you don't like me?

Or is it just because your better than everyone else here.

"Men of few words are men of little wisdom."

[MOWGLI]

I agree with most of that... but if there's a nice empty shelter... or a shelter with sympatico, friendly hikers in it... I'm liable to take the lazy route and stay there.

No argument from me. I prefer to argue about the REALLY important things. Like stoves and sleeping bags.

[superman]

All you folks who are going on about how great the shelters are should read the title of the thread..."Reasons to avoid shelters." Y'all should start your own thread. It could be something like...um..."Reasons to stay in a shelter."

[Homer&Marje]

All you folks who are going on about how great the shelters are should read the title of the thread..."Reasons to avoid shelters." Y'all should start your own thread. It could be something like...um..."Reasons to stay in a shelter."

If you want a one sided suggestion, hang a picture of yourself on the wall and talk, talk, talk the day away. Healthy discussions involve opinions from both sides. That way one may interpret their own way to respond. You have just chosen to antagonize a response.

Obliged.

[ki0eh]

Newbie question here: I have heard all about the mice. But Cookie Monster really wants to spend a night in a shelter on her first overnighter on the AT (probably in the spring, though could still happen this fall).

Are the mice a problem on the second level of a two level shelter like Peters Mountain?

I have a nice small bivvy tent that is plenty light enough to carry, so a shelter is not a neccessity. But she thinks it would be cool (but she also would be freaked out by a mouse running across her, as would most 12-year-old girls (and her mom)

Sleep with head out, rather than head in, as mice like walls.

Peters Mtn or Darlington might be better first destinations in this area than Cove Mtn, Alec Kennedy, or Rausch Gap. Darlington might be interesting as a destination from the Scott Farm to see how the, um, familiar scenic wonders of Middlesex Twp. disappear into the woods. (Best to do that before the Darlington spring dries up.)

[JAK]

I think shelters would be really cool in the off season, all to myself, when I could best appreciate the mice, and the winter, and the wind, and the emptiness.


In an Old Barn

Tons upon tons the brown-green fragrant hay
O'erbrims the mows beyond the time-warped eaves,
Up to the rafters where the spider weaves,
Though few flies wander his secluded way.
Through a high chink one lonely golden ray,
Wherein the dust is dancing, slants unstirred.
In the dry hush some rustlings light are heard,
Of winter-hidden mice at furtive play.
Far down, the cattle in their shadowed stalls,
Nose-deep in clover fodder's meadowy scent,
Forget the snows that whelm their pasture streams,
The frost that bites the world beyond their walls.
Warm housed, they dream of summer, well content
In day-long contemplation of their dreams.

Charles G. D. Roberts

[JAK]

THE WINTER FIELDS

WINDS here, and sleet, and frost that bites like steel.
The low bleak hill rounds under the low sky.
Naked of flock and fold the fallows lie,
Thin streaked with meagre drift. The gusts reveal
By fits the dim grey snakes of fence, that steal
Through the white dusk. The hill-foot poplars sigh,
While storm and death with winter trample by,
And the iron fields ring sharp, and blind lights reel.

Yet in the lonely ridges, wrenched with pain,
Harsh solitary hillocks, bound and dumb,
Grave glebes close-lipped beneath the scourge and chain,
Lurks hid the germ of ecstasy—the sum
Of life that waits on summer, till the rain
Whisper in April and the crocus come.

Charles G.D.Roberts

[superman]

If you want a one sided suggestion, hang a picture of yourself on the wall and talk, talk, talk the day away. Healthy discussions involve opinions from both sides. That way one may interpret their own way to respond. You have just chosen to antagonize a response.

Obliged.

LMAO, oh gee

[Tin Man]

stealth camping is easy and fun. you can still socialize at the shelters and you get to sleep in peace and privacy. try it sometime.