Invasive Technologies

[take-a-knee]

Why do you suppose I'd restrict my cell-phone usage to shelters?

"I feel like I playin' cards with my brother's kids again."

If you happen to be walking with someone with a cell phone who continually answers it/uses it, and it bothers you, stop walking with him. If they are headed in the opposite direction on the trail, just how are they bothering you by talking on their phone? This is a shelter issue, and away from shelters it isn't an issue unless you are a self-centered, deluded-Walter Mitty/Daniel Boone wannabe.

[jzakhar]

Wish it were so. But sadly, cell phones, and digital cameras have totally different impacts on the trail.

Those of us that seek a wild trail, are appalled by the near universal practice of carrying phones. A trail in which everyone must cope with emergencies on their own is different from a trail in which hikers know that probably everybody near by has the ability to call instantly for help when you run into difficulties.

A cell phone laden trail is a safer trail. But also a less wild trail. I don't go to trails seeking safety, I go to experience a little of the rare bit of wildness that remains in an over civilized world.

It's a psychological thing. But a real thing. Though I know that many can't understand what I'm talking about.

As for digital cameras, unlike cell phones, they in no way impact the basic nature of the trail. Among the joys of backpacking is the sense of independence from the artifacts of civilization. Carrying a digital camera is no more a handicap to wildness than does carrying a modern pack, or a down sleeping bag, or carrying a film camera, for that matter.

Weary

Yes but by asking others not to bring something you impact their experience, much the way you are claiming they impact yours..

Maybe not everyone is out there for a rare bit of wildness, could be someone wants the challenge of backpacking 2000+ miles.

[Homer&Marje]

Listen to my Mp3 player while hiking. But I hang it right behind my head with the volume on medium, Only I can hear it (And not at all if I am breathing too hard) Reason being that I don't want to disturb anyone else, I do like to listen to music, although not the whole day, and it allows me to still hear everything around me.... Kinda like having your own theme music

With regards to cell phones, I carry mine, although I usually use it to check the time or for it's digital video and picture features. If I am solo I check in with the wife once a night so she knows I got where I planned.

If either of those are that hideous, I apologize in advance.

[NICKTHEGREEK]

cells don't bother me. i'm thankful i can hear. being deaf can't be too fun. yak away cell users!

Wisdom! Life w/o ever hearing John Coltrane (or your favorite) ever would be sad, having heard him then knowing you'll never hear him again would be far worse.
Serious thanks Wolf, I hope I'll remember that next time some real estate Muffy won't give the cell a rest at the next table.

[fiddlehead]

Cell phones are here to stay.
Mp3 players or some kind of similar music sharing/playing is here to stay.

I worry about something much worse than both: CCTV cameras.
My British friends tell me horror stories of the millions of these things they now have in tiny England.
They even now have speakers in some of them and someone watching live and if you do something like litter, they'll yell at you and tell you to pick it up.

Imagine the implications of this on the AT. You wanna see people stop staying in shelter's, just put them in.

[LIhikers]

I don't think it's about any one device or technology, it's more about change.
And the only thing we can be sure of is that there will always be change in liffe.
It boils down to how we use or manage that change.

[shoe]

I use a MP3 player occasionally, usually when I am having a tough time on a long uphill.

What's really annoying is when people arrive at the shelter and plug speakers into their MP3 player and force me to listen to their choice of music which is always something I don't like.

[hopefulhiker]

I carried a weather radio, for about a week and later an MP3 player during the Green tunnel. I gave it up once I got to Maryland, no cell phone though... i mostly listened to audio books..

[Wise Old Owl]

Too Funny, here we are arguing about cell phone usage in shelters, and MP3 on the trail, etc....

When civilization encroachment impinges on the trail and the only route is to walk parallel with the highway.. Now that really sucks.

[take-a-knee]

Too Funny, here we are arguing about cell phone usage in shelters, and MP3 on the trail, etc....

When civilization encroachment impinges on the trail and the only route is to walk parallel with the highway.. Now that really sucks.

BS, just keep it a nice 2-lane, with a bike lane, and then move the trail up on the ridge. The AT is, for the most part, a woodland trail, not the Oregon Trail. Don't try to make it something it isn't, just be glad we have what we have, enjoy it and support it.

[Christus Cowboy]

I don't think it's about any one device or technology, it's more about change. And the only thing we can be sure of is that there will always be change in liffe. It boils down to how we use or manage that change.

This one of the general points that I was trying to make (maybe not very well) when I stated that some technology can magnify obnoxious behavior. Some people handle change better than others, some people balance the use of techology in the wilderness better than others.... It is generally a question of maturity I guess. Of course change itself is not always bad however, and as stated in numerous posts it's the individual's use of the technology that poses many of the problems. I should also state for the record that I do own a cellphone, digital camera, and other devices as well.....and yes I have taken a cellphone in the backcountry which use to keep up with the time and use in emergencies... but I wonder why because I generally keep it turned off and don't use it....

But there's something to be said of a backcountry where individuals can reflect and seek renewal. I take teenagers out frequently to the backcountry and I am always amused at their reaction when their cellphone stops working and they can no longer text message their friends about the benefits of dying one's hair pink. At first, they start suffering withdrawal symptoms from the electronic fog that marks their existence and a funny thing starts to happen.... they start to reflect and appreciate some of life's simplicities, they start to see the value in taking a break from the electronic fog and by the end of the trail they see where the temporary denial made them appreciate those conveniences in life such as the technology that we discussing in this thread. By the end of the trail they are asking me when they can go on the next trip and generally leave the cellphones behind much to the horror of their parents but that's entirely different thread.......

[TD55]

The AT has been getting "less wild" every year you've been alive, and it'll likely continue. Anyone who's ever been to Germany knows how the Germans love to walk, they have trails everywhere through the woods (in Bavaria anyway), nothing most of us would describe as a "wilderness experience" but accessible and available to all. That is the future for most of what we call backcountry in the east. Get over it, embrace it, and get busy trying to preserve what is still held in common in the US and state park/NF systems.

As for cell phones and MP3's, what the hell is any of it your business, if you don't like them, don't carry them. There are still lots of places (that don't have shelters and many don't have trails) where you'll not see a soul most of the year. Most of this is all about you shelter whores having your "wilderness experience" disturbed. GIVE ME A BREAK! STAY AWAY FROM SHELTERS AND YOU WON'T HEAR A ONE-SIDED CELL CONVERSATION!

What a bunch of crap. Maybe I'm misreading this, but are you saying it's now a persons right to be a rude jerk. Somehow the shelter ethics and manners has to be controlled by a-holes who don't have the courtesy to walk away from a shelter or other people when they use thier phone?

It ain't the music box or cell phone or laptop that is a problem. The problem is the way and manner they are used. Common courtesy goes a long way. Unfortunatley there are just alot of folks out there with very little or no character, class or upbringing.

[Tipi Walter]

Gadgets are gadgets, you have to carry them and their batteries just like a book or some candles. Hump what you want. The worst gadget invasion I ever saw was a group of 12 hunters with 18 dogs all walking in a row on a trail in the Citico Wilderness and each guy had a radio antenna with a GPS homing device. Pathetic. The local boys sure hate to backpack but they love using their wired-in dogs.

Most of the places I backpack do not have cellphone coverage, so I guess I'm one of the lucky few. If the AT gets complete cell coverage then I pity the backpackers always tethered and in reach of the still warm teat of Sypilization.

Superman had a good post on Columbus and I agree. How did Lewis and Clark ever make it across the country without a cellphone or a SPOT? As for me, I take a digital camera and a little pocket radio with headphones AND a cellphone cuz occasionally I'm atop an open bald and can check in with family members for any emergencies. This is why I got the phone to begin with, in case something happens at home and I need to return.

[Homer&Marje]

What a bunch of crap. Maybe I'm misreading this, but are you saying it's now a persons right to be a rude jerk. Somehow the shelter ethics and manners has to be controlled by a-holes who don't have the courtesy to walk away from a shelter or other people when they use thier phone?

It ain't the music box or cell phone or laptop that is a problem. The problem is the way and manner they are used. Common courtesy goes a long way. Unfortunatley there are just alot of folks out there with very little or no character, class or upbringing.

thats the one. well spoken.

[Homer&Marje]

Gadgets are gadgets, you have to carry them and their batteries just like a book or some candles. Hump what you want. The worst gadget invasion I ever saw was a group of 12 hunters with 18 dogs all walking in a row on a trail in the Citico Wilderness and each guy had a radio antenna with a GPS homing device. Pathetic. The local boys sure hate to backpack but they love using their wired-in dogs.

Most of the places I backpack do not have cellphone coverage, so I guess I'm one of the lucky few. If the AT gets complete cell coverage then I pity the backpackers always tethered and in reach of the still warm teat of Sypilization.

Superman had a good post on Columbus and I agree. How did Lewis and Clark ever make it across the country without a cellphone or a SPOT? As for me, I take a digital camera and a little pocket radio with headphones AND a cellphone cuz occasionally I'm atop an open bald and can check in with family members for any emergencies. This is why I got the phone to begin with, in case something happens at home and I need to return.

I should have read this before posting before. I agree with you in many ways... I am actually glad when my cell phone doesn't get reception...makes me feel farther from the world.

I do have to somewhat disagree. I think Columbus and all the other early explorers did just fine without cell phones, and could do it again. Because they did not have the technology. But in an age where so many technological advances were being brought in (similar to today) even the simplest things back then were considered "Witchcraft to the World"

I think the hypothetical would have been, would they have taken a cell phone if they had them? I think after they got over the sheer amazement of the R-Kelly ringtone... probably

[Hoop Time]

"When someone asks 'How can I reach you' I thoroughly enjoy saying 'You can't, I'll be fishing.' I'm still waiting for Americans to realize that being in constant communication is not an advantage, but a short leash. Cell phones have changed us from a nation of self-reliant pioneer types into a bunch of men standing alone in supermarkets saying 'Okay, I'm in the tampon aisle, but I don't see it." -- John Gierach

May favorite fishing/camping spot is in a deep valley where there is absolutely no cell signal. We have a system worked out where the wife/kids know the code if I call collect from the nearest pay phone to check in and let them know I am OK at night when I get off the stream. But I have no more use for a cell phone than I do for a watch when I am out there.

That said, I usually do carry my cell when I hike. But it is not turned on, and I would only use it in an emergency. The problem, to me, with cell phones, is that they allow others to bother me precisely when I am trying to get away from it all.

As for Ipods, I like to hear the sounds of nature. My only big complaint about my house is that I can't leave windows open or sit outside without hearing the constant drone of a nearby highway. One of my favorite things when I am out in the woods is to be in a spot where I can't hear any manmade sound. I love to just stop, close my eyes, and listen to "nothing." Few things relax me more.

So I would not be likely to hike with the Ipod on, but I do enjoy some music around the campfire at night, and I can see how some who are on the trail for days on end might want the music to help them get going some days.

Seems it all goes back to HYOH, which includes making sure your hike doesn't have a negative impact on mine. Have your cell conversation away from others if you need to make a call. Keep it on silent, or turned off when it's not in use, and you won't impact anybody else.

[Lone Wolf]

What a bunch of crap. Maybe I'm misreading this, but are you saying it's now a persons right to be a rude jerk. Somehow the shelter ethics and manners has to be controlled by a-holes who don't have the courtesy to walk away from a shelter or other people when they use thier phone?

if one is foolish enuf to stay in a cramped shelter or hostel then one must put up with all kinds of nonsense. after all there's millions of acres to camp. no need to flock to one area

[superman]

We need a code of conduct for the use of electronic devices on the trail. The things will be on the trail and those who bring them should know how to use them on the AT according to some rules of etiquette.

[Lone Wolf]

We need a code of conduct for the use of electronic devices on the trail. The things will be on the trail and those who bring them should know how to use them on the AT according to some rules of etiquette.

hikers can't follow rules in town what makes you think they will in the woods

[superman]

hikers can't follow rules in town what makes you think they will in the woods

Your right, it would be the same ones who do stupid things in town that wouldn't care about any code for electronic use on the AT. I was trying to be optimistic that for those who didn't know what was acceptable that a code of conduct would give them something to guide their electronic use on.
Well, it's time to get on with the day.