Shelter Graffiti

[hperry]

Thank you for your admission. The blame still rest with those who deface shelters and privies, not those who constructed those amenities.

Give it up while you still can save face.

SOG

haha.

well, i did not really blame those that built the shelters directly, but rather i blamed the shelters themselves. i guess that is an indirect blame of the builders.

bottom line: The presence of shelters will attract the very people who will deface them.

[ki0eh]

well, rocky viewpoints exist naturally.

Although the rocks might be there naturally, the viewpoints are often cleared by maintainers, at least in PA and nearby. Look closely over the edge and you will likely see many saplings cut.

[Mags]

When does graffiti become art to be protected?

Petroglyphs in Utah ~1200 AD:







William Clark carving, 1806:



1935 Basque carving near Tahoe:




Nothing to do with the discussion directly. Just in a philosophical mood......

[Hooch]

this is probably a great irony of the shelter system. The types of folks who carve or paint grafitti at the shelters are the types who probably wouldn't have came had the shelters not been there. so are the shelters themselves to blame for their own graffiti?

ponder over that one a while.

Dude, your arguement has more holes in it than a yard sale collander. By your arguement then, is it your fault if you're standing on the street and someone comes up to you and kicks you in the nuts? After all, it's not their fault you just happened to be there when they felt like kicking. Bad analogy? Nope, two things are just sitting there (the shelter and your nuts) and someone comes along and commits a crime against them (defacing and kicking).

Don't get me wrong, I don't like shelters. However, I don't think it's ok to deface them just because they are there.

[emerald]

When does graffiti become art to be protected?

You ask a good question which begs a simple answer, one which I suspect is not easily found.

In my view, on the AT there is no point at which painting rocks, carving on live trees or AT shelters rises to the level of art. It is after all, a National Scenic Trail, not a 2000-mile art show where people show off their talents and contemplate the works of other itinerant artists. People should write or draw in the shelter registers if they must express themselves.

[Lone Wolf]

there is no point where carvings on live trees or AT shelters rises to the level of art.

maybe not in your eyes. i like shelter carvings. i think mt. rushmore and that crazy horse monument are ugly scars

[Mags]

In my view, there is no point where carvings on live trees or AT shelters rises to the level of art.

The Basque carvings on aspens are now protected by the USFS:
http://www.fs.fed.us/wildflowers/com...carvings.shtml

But, don't leave any of your own they say...


So, does graffiti that is 70 yrs old then become historic?

I am not arguing pro or con against shelter graffiti. Just saying that while graffiti in shelters is aesthetically bad to many of us (myself included), at some point it may be considered art and/or historical significance.

Odd point to ponder.

[Lone Wolf]

The Basque carvings on aspens are now protected by the USFS:
http://www.fs.fed.us/wildflowers/com...carvings.shtml

But, don't leave any of your own they say...


So, does graffiti that is 70 yrs old then become historic?

I am not arguing pro or con against shelter graffiti. Just saying that while graffiti in shelters is aesthetically bad to many of us (myself included), at some point it may be considered art and/or historical significance.

Odd point to ponder.

if earl shaffer had carved something years ago thesame whiners would be fighting to protect his carvings

[emerald]

if earl shaffer had carved something years ago the same whiners would be fighting to protect his carvings

I'm not sure if I'm one of your whiners, but I wouldn't. A replaced shelter was dismantled years ago in Pennsylvania. On one of the chestnut logs from which it was built was the name of a club member and a date, some 50 years prior as I recall. Some thought the carved portion of the log should be preserved. I thought it should be incinerated along with the rest of the shelter.

[smokymtnsteve]

I'm not sure if I'm one of your whiners, but I wouldn't. A replaced shelter was dismantled years ago in Pennsylvania. On one of the chestnut logs from which it was built was the name of a club member and a date, some 50 years prior as I recall. Some thought the carved portion of the log should be preserved. I thought it should be incinerated along with the rest of the shelter.

man I'd love to have those chestnut logs..to burn chestnut logs is a SIN>

[smokymtnsteve]

on rocky top inthe smoies thier are some cravings in a rock..very old..protected...but if you craved inthe rock you would be fined.

of course native american artifacts like broken pottery and such is usually from trash heaps left by the noble savages.

[emerald]

man I'd love to have those chestnut logs..to burn chestnut logs is a SIN>

I doubt they would have been of interest to you had you seen them. They were all well under 6 inches in diameter, many badly split and covered with multiple layers of paint and/or stain. Last time I visited the shelter site I think they were still where they were left to rot that day in the gullied trail to it's spring.

[Montana Mac]

Guess it has been going on for a long time -doesn't mean I have to like it.

In just over 28 months-from May 1804 to September 1806-the expedition of Meriwether Lewis and William Clark traveled more than 8,000 miles. More than a quarter of that distance was spent traversing Montana by boat, on horseback and afoot:

Pompeys Pillar where Clark carved his signature in a large sandstone rock along the Yellowstone River.

[Mags]

Pompeys Pillar where Clark carved his signature in a large sandstone rock along the Yellowstone River.

The only physical sign of their expedition they purposely left (that we know of).

Then there is the KILROY WAS HERE graffiti. Yet,that is a cultural icon.


The Anasazi graffiti is rather old. But there has been cases of Roman graffiti even older. Pretty much the modern equivalent of "Jack loves Jane" (except in Latin). Same thing you'd find in a shelter (minus the Latin.... ) Because it is almost 2000 yrs old, it is protected.

As I said, odd point to ponder...

[earlyriser26]

I would like to second the motion of removing all the rocks.

[NICKTHEGREEK]

Caves do.

There we are, blame it on those French cavemen who painted animals on cave walls.

[weary]

the blame rests with those that built the actual trail and shelters. both scars on the land

Stop whining about the trail being a scar on the land. If you don't like the trail, just stay away.

Weary

[Lone Wolf]

Stop whining about the trail being a scar on the land. If you don't like the trail, just stay away.

Weary

stop whining about signs on a tree leading to WHL. if you don't like WHL, just stay away.

the trail and shelters are scars. fact

[Homer&Marje]

it's just graffiti. it ain't gonna ruin your nights sleep

Sure won't ruin mine. I like to read all the ones to see how old the shelter is. Some of the ones from the 70's are great

Swear I saw a big LW carved up in New Hampshire? Probly just a coincidence since it wasn't the smokies

[weary]

stop whining about signs on a tree leading to WHL. if you don't like WHL, just stay away.

the trail and shelters are scars. fact

You have your facts wrong, LW. I don't object to the sign on a tree near the overgrown road that leads to WHL. I haven't seen it but hikers tell me it simply says, "Mahar ." The sign directs hikers to the shore of a great lake, where once stood an historic AT shelter -- incidentally, one of the first AT shelters I ever stayed at.

The next time I'm in the wilderness, I'll stop by and relive fond memories.

Weary