Scout Badge question

[2XL]

When the scouts do overnight trips, are they required to make a "shelter" as a project?
I have been to many campsite and shelters that have these "shelters" made from a sapling, sticks and usually ferns.
I am just guessing they are from the scouts, from the evidence left in the shelter registers, saying that scouts stayed there recently.


Why don't they take them down?
Are they being taught LNT?

[mrc237]

Wilderness survival is the only MB in which a shelter must be built (that I can rememer). Don't know why they would not be taken down after being built. Next time write down the Troop number and call their local BSA District HQ.

[trippclark]

When the scouts do overnight trips, are they required to make a "shelter" as a project?
I have been to many campsite and shelters that have these "shelters" made from a sapling, sticks and usually ferns.
I am just guessing they are from the scouts, from the evidence left in the shelter registers, saying that scouts stayed there recently.


Why don't they take them down?
Are they being taught LNT?

There is a requirement for such in the Wilderness Survival Merit Badge. See requirement #8 at this link:

http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php...rness_Survival

"Improvise a natural shelter. For the purpose of this demonstration, use techniques that have little negative impact on the environment. Spend a night in your shelter."

Scouting also teaches LNT and while the requirement does not expressly state to "tear it down when you are done," it does say to "use techniques that have little negative impact on the environment." I would think that a trained and responsible leader would have their Scouts disassemble the shelter after use.

See also:
http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Leave_No_Trace
and
http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php..._and_Venturers)

[mrc237]

Nice reply tripp!

[emerald]

Some won't like what they're about to read. I'm posting it anyway, because it should appear in this thread.

Building such structures on the AT is not only inconsiderate, some places it's illegal, especially were it to involve cutting standing trees, live or not. The proper place to construct these shelters would be on private land where permission is requested well beforehand and received.

[Lugnut]

Some won't like what they're about to read. I'm posting it anyway, because it should appear in this thread.

Building such structures on the AT is not only inconsiderate, some places it's illegal, especially were it to involve cutting standing trees, live or not. The proper place to construct these shelters would be on private land where permission is requested well beforehand and received.

Couldn't agree more!

[shelterbuilder]

It is not always the Scouts who are into such constructions. Here in Pa., and I'm sure elsewhere, there are locals who will find a campsite for the weekend (sometimes an established campsite, sometimes not) and will build all manner of shelters, tables, benches, etc. for the group. I have NEVER seen these folks tear down any of these structures afterward - heck, why would they, since they know that they'll be back again to re-use the site.

I maintain a section near the William Penn shelter, and I've seen this for more than 20 years. Most of this takes place on public land, since they (presumably) don't have any land of their own to play on!

[emerald]

Most of this takes place on public land, since they (presumably) don't have any land of their own to play on!

So they play on public land where they disregard the rules and despoil it for others!

[shelterbuilder]

So they play on everyone else's where they make their own rules!

Hey, it's just like the people who have ALWAYS ridden horses on the AT in certain places - "We've always done this; why stop now?"

[emerald]

I knew you couldn't resist! Should I post a link to the horsey thread?

[shelterbuilder]

I knew you couldn't resist! Should I post a link to the horsey thread?

NO! The more you stir horse poop, the more it stinks!

[Wise Old Owl]

Shades of Grey, I have watched numerous scouts make those shelters and many of them would freeze their ass off as they are so badly built. Yet not once have I ever observe a kid use live trees. I have observed some juvinile deliquent tenderfoot back of car campers cut live trees for a campfire. It appears that not being in a training leadership organization raises more concerns and stupidity.


Horsey poop - let me guess-I won't clean up after my dog, until we get the horse riders to pack it out? [insert Sarcastic Joke Smiley here]

[emerald]

I was recently approached by a coworker about a Scout activity he and his son would attend where they would be participating in such wilderness survival training. Generally not one to hold back, I told him I didn't believe teaching Scouts to build these shelters was beneficial to them or the public.

I pointed out staying warm has more to do with proper gear, sound judgement and recognizing the signs of hypothermia than building shelters and fires. Somewhat to my own surprise, I added more would be accomplished by instructing Scouts when and how to use cell phones.

[shelterbuilder]

I was recently approached by a coworker about a Scout activity he and his son would attend where they would be participating in such wilderness survival training. Generally not one to hold back, I told him I didn't believe teaching Scouts to build these shelters was beneficial to them or the public.

I pointed out staying warm has more to do with proper gear, sound judgement and recognizing the signs of hypothermia than building shelters and fires. Somewhat to my own surprise, I added more would be accomplished by instructing Scouts in appropriate use of cell phones.

CELL PHONE USAGE!!! You should be ashamed of yourself. I shall have to look for a nearby cell phone tower from which to hang your cold, lifeless body once you perish from exposure!

As for "survival" shelters, they would be better served to take an outside course a la Tom Brown, where they would learn not only the correct way to build a survival shelter, but also how much work goes into one that is properly constructed.

[emerald]

CELL PHONE USAGE!!! You should be ashamed of yourself.

I had to spin around for a look behind myself because I wasn't sure it was me speaking either!

I know we're not miles from nowhere in much of Pennsylvania, but I also know there are places cell phones won't work and batteries do fail. Still, I believe there are better ways to be prepared.

[shelterbuilder]

I had to spin around for a look behind myself because I wasn't sure it was me speaking either!

I know we're not miles from nowhere in much of Pennsylvania, but I also know there are places cell phones won't work and batteries do fail. Still, I believe there are better ways to be prepared.

I've always believed that depending on a cell phone to get out of a jam was something that fell into the same catagory as NOT carrying toilet paper because there might be some left by some considerate soul at the next crapper: if you're not PREPARED to venture out, then stay home.

And as far as "being connected 24/7" goes, don't get me started --- I go to the woods to get away from it all....

[emerald]

I've always believed that depending on a cell phone to get out of a jam was something that fell into the same category as NOT carrying toilet paper because there might be some left by some considerate soul at the next crapper: if you're not PREPARED to venture out, then stay home.

If you mean prepared to physically extract yourself, I'm sure you can imagine circumstances when someone couldn't get his or herself out and help may arrive too late. I'm only suggesting technology be used to speed up the process, not as a substitute for being prepared.

[shelterbuilder]

If you mean prepared to physically extract yourself, I'm sure you can imagine circumstances when someone couldn't get out his or herself and help may arrive too late. I'm only suggesting technology be used to speed up the process, not as a replacement for being prepared.

We risk going off-topic, so I'll tread carefully.

No, I can imagine those circumstances, but I fear that the prevailing techno-culture has spawned people who would rather use the phone in place of common sense and preparedness. (I know a few, as I'm sure we all do.) As you point out, it's not like we're miles from nowhere in Pa., and there is no season of the year when you do NOT run across other hikers who would lend a hand toward the extraction process. Still, knowing how to build a proper survival shelter leans toward the idea of "making do with what's at hand", which is the same mind-set as carrying a little extra food in case you get stuck, or letting the folks back home know where you're going and when you'll be back. You go prepared for things, and make do if you have to. Some aspects of techno-culture seem to be saying "Just go, and use the technology to make up the difference".

Ya wanna learn survival skills, do it right. Who knows, it just might change your mind-set.

[Wise Old Owl]

I had to spin around for a look behind myself because I wasn't sure it was me speaking either!

I know we're not miles from nowhere in much of Pennsylvania, but I also know there are places cell phones won't work and batteries do fail. Still, I believe there are better ways to be prepared.

What are you guys smoking? can I have some?


Boy Scouts probably know how to use all the features of a cell phone better than us old farts. - Mine makes a great MP3 player on the trail!

[shelterbuilder]

What are you guys smoking? can I have some?....

I don't know about SOG, but I'm just woozy from having my lungs all clogged with Husky fur!