Sure, once the solid material settles, you can see your way through the turbidity.
Are you sure that you're not talking about something else?Originally Posted by emerald
Sure, once the solid material settles, you can see your way through the turbidity.
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning how to dance in the rain!
That last part is funny because I can just imagine a Ranger pulling out a tape measure and saying, "Well you are 199 feet from the water source and by law you need to be 200 feet away, so here is a ticket."
Trail Name: Ronin
Ronin were the epitome of self-determination; they were independent men who dictated their own path in life, answering only to themselves and making decisions as they saw fit.
In particular, try to camp at established places: when you do, try to setup in the center of the campsite, and not at the edge along the rough. This is not to say that rattlesnakes never curl up in open places, because of course they do; but at least out in the open you can see them. Which leads to the next point: always look around before you get out of the tent; particularly, grab a light and scan when you have to get up in the dark to answer nature's call. My wife and I learned these lessons, blessedly without damage, at the Sand Spring campsite between PA 183 and Port Clinton.
David Perry
79.1 down, 2,101.9 to go.
That depends on what kind of a day the Ranger had before he found you.
FWIW, dperry, that entire area is loaded with rattlers - it's great habitat for them. And, ah, FYI - the Sand Spring campsite IS more than 200 feet from the AT, and IS on Game Lands.
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning how to dance in the rain!
Correction
No camping within 500 feet of surface water on Pennsylvania State Game Lands.
Busted!
And you're too polite to mention it, but it's also quite a bit closer than 500 feet to the spring--heck, it might not be 50 feet. I plead guilty, your honor.That depends on what kind of a day the Ranger had before he found you.
FWIW, dperry, that entire area is loaded with rattlers - it's great habitat for them. And, ah, FYI - the Sand Spring campsite IS more than 200 feet from the AT, and IS on Game Lands.I do, however, raise the following mitigating circumstances for my sentencing:
a.) My wife was worn-out, in pain, and, in retrospect, probably dehydrated (that was probably the hottest weekend all of last year)--she wasn't going to make it to Eagles Nest Shelter.
b.) That area is full of rocks and very tangled roots--there wasn't any legal spot around there that was both unbumpy and flat. Simply digging a hole the next morning for nature's call was a major undertaking.
c.) Speaking of which, we were very scrupulous about removing all trash and doing all contaminating activities quite far away from the spring, and in a place where stuff wouldn't flow into it eventually.
However, I do promise that in future hikes we will try much harder to camp in legal spots.
David Perry
79.1 down, 2,101.9 to go.
Well, I'm NOT the campsite police, you know...And you're too polite to mention it, but it's also quite a bit closer than 500 feet to the spring--heck, it might not be 50 feet. I plead guilty, your honor.
a.) My wife was worn-out, in pain, and, in retrospect, probably dehydrated (that was probably the hottest weekend all of last year)--she wasn't going to make it to Eagles Nest Shelter.
b.) That area is full of rocks and very tangled roots--there wasn't any legal spot around there that was both unbumpy and flat. Simply digging a hole the next morning for nature's call was a major undertaking.
c.) Speaking of which, we were very scrupulous about removing all trash and doing all contaminating activities quite far away from the spring, and in a place where stuff wouldn't flow into it eventually.
However, I do promise that in future hikes we will try much harder to camp in legal spots.
However, that is one campsite that has easier drive-up access for the Rangers than most folks realize (from the Game Commission's dirt road and through the fields), and I'd hate to see anyone get fined for an illegal campsite.
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning how to dance in the rain!
Why ask?
There's a good reason I won't drink from that spring -- people who make their own rules!
And if they had come, we would have accepted responsibility and paid the fine. However, given that it was out of season and an incredibly hot weekend, I figured the risk was low. Heck, in three days we had human contact period five times.Well, I'm NOT the campsite police, you know...
However, that is one campsite that has easier drive-up access for the Rangers than most folks realize (from the Game Commission's dirt road and through the fields), and I'd hate to see anyone get fined for an illegal campsite.
Now, there's breaking the rules, and then there's breaking the rules. If we really didn't give a care, we would have washed our dishes in the spring and done our business right there, rather than 500 feet to the side and downhill. This isn't an excuse; I screwed up, and I admit it. If I did it all over again, I would have stopped at the previous campsite that was actually on the trail, and just accepted that I would have to go and schlep the water back and forth. But I was hopeful that there would be a legal spot near the intersection of the Sand Spring trail. As it turned out, there wasn't, and at that point, my wife was in no shape to go further. As it was, I ended up having to carry both her pack and mine down to the campsite. Again, I messed up, and next time, I'll be more conservative if I don't absolutely know that there's a campsite at our goal for the day. But it's not like we completely disregarded all standards of propriety here.There's a good reason I won't drink from that spring -- people who make their own rules!
And anyway, I think the scare the rattlesnake threw into us has already taken care of our karmic punishment.
David Perry
79.1 down, 2,101.9 to go.
I'll comment more on the last post when I have more time and am less outraged!
Yeah, I'm sure we'll all be waiting in suspense....
He said he was sorry, his wife wasn't going to be able to go any further, and he did the best he could with respect to the situation. I guess he could have pushed his wife to the brink of a heat injury just to please you but I guess it just wasn't your day. "Get over it" is the best advice I can offer you.
I'm not interested in your advice, nor did I solicit it. There are also other issues with the post I commented upon and yours.
We're talking about 500 feet or maybe 400 more. What you may not realize is the reliable spring hikers depend upon in the summer is downhill! Every time that illegal campsite is used it becomes more obvious and attractive to others.
No, you're right... dress him down for a few more pages over something he would have avoided doing if he could have helped it. Unleash the full power of your outrage! Maybe you can get him to apologize 5 more times!
Hey, maybe we can call Ranger Rick and Smokey the Bear and they can prosecute this. I'll bet statute of limitations hasn't run out yet! What do you think the proper punishment is? A dozen licks from Smokey's shovel? That sounds about right...
Hey, guys - STUFF HAPPENS! When it happens, you do the best that you can, and trust that whatever damage you may have done isn't so much that Mother Nature can't restore it.
Yes, emerald, you and I both know that the RELIABLE spring is downhill and on the right side of the campsite; anyone who isn't local wouldn't know it. Yes, the upper end of the Sand Spring trail (leading out to the road) would probably have been both level (more-or-less) and legal. Yes, the more a campsite is used, the more it encourages use. All of that having been said, I've been out with a weary spouse - and with weary hiking partners - and sometimes, a bad choice is the best choice available. As I said, stuff happens. You do your best to mitigate the damage. And pray afterwards....
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - it's about learning how to dance in the rain!
I can see I am going to have to apologize again. I should not have been the slightest bit cavalier about issues which I know people are passionate about. That was wrong of me.
While I genuinely appreciate those who are willing to defend or excuse me, I also do not wish to start a war over something in which I was at fault. I have no more desire to foul the WhiteBlaze "spring" than I have to contaminate a real one. I apologize for my error at Sand Spring, and I will do everything in my power to make sure that I do not repeat the mistake in future.
emerald, I would honestly welcome your commentary via PM about the other issues that I did not take into consideration. If anyone else wishes to say something, please send me PM's as well. I am still pretty new to backpacking, and I am grateful for any constructive criticism which will make me a better and more considerate hiker.
In the meantime, I respectfully request that the moderators lock this thread and that anyone who wants to discuss any other issues that may have come up in this thread do so in another one.
David Perry
79.1 down, 2,101.9 to go.
dperry
Thank you for your post. Your apology appears to be genuine. You seem to be contrite and accept responsibility for your actions. There's no need to lock to the thread.
I know you know PGC's regs because you posted the PA Code link I've reposted many times. Many who don't know as much as you know have learned from your earlier efforts and learned more today. Something good has already come of your admission and more is apt to follow.
I must clock 12.5 hours today to get tomorrow off. I want tomorrow off bad. I have much more to say on this topic, but I have nothing to gain by berating you publicly nor should anyone else.
You are already on my contacts list. PM me whenever you wish.
Whoops. Well my post was written jokingly anyway, so I guess the semantics don't matter. Thanks for clarifying the actual distance though.
Trail Name: Ronin
Ronin were the epitome of self-determination; they were independent men who dictated their own path in life, answering only to themselves and making decisions as they saw fit.
I'm hiking with K-N.
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