Concern about friend doing a guided thru-hike

[Post]

Hello,

I have a good friend who just signed up for what looks like a "guided slack-pack" thru-hike of the AT next year (2010). She will be hiking with a group, they are all expected to hike together, stay together and start and end the trail together as s group. While there appears to be some bona fide backpacking, it looks like the organizers will be slack-packing them most of the time.

This style of long-distance hiking does not particularly appeal to me (I prefer to hike solo and make all my own decisions as I go), but that's not really my concern. What worries me is the training regimen for the thru-hike.

My friend is a mid-50's female, in good shape and has done some weekend backpacking in her life but certainly nothing even approaching the scale of even a typical week on the Trail.

The first preparation hike is coming up in a few weeks. The participants are expected to get to the trailhead at 5 am Then on their very first day, hike 23.5 miles. The next day they do 18 miles, then the final day is a 20-miler. Um, 60 miles in 3 days? With a 5 am start that means probably not enough sleep right out of the gate? That sure seems like a grueling schedule for a very first-ever backpacking trip. Expecially for out-of-shape people with brand new boots and equipment. I've done a few 23 mile days, but only after being on the Trail for weeks and having my Trail Legs. I'm just worried that my friend is going to get discouraged at the very least, or injured at the worst. The hike is also in Pennsylvania in early April, when there still could be snowstorms, or freezing rain.

Is this as bad an idea as it sounds to me? I do understand that the hike is being organized by a very experienced person who has thru-hiked the AT multiple times, so I concede that he has more experience than I do. But still, I just don't see how this 60-mile first hike in only 3 days is a good idea, especially for older folks.

Thoughts, anyone?

[Gray Blazer]

Yeah, gotta agree. Sounds kinda rough. Guess it would weed out a few people.

[SGT Rock]

Sounds like it is designed to give people a gut check. Is this Warren Doyle's group?

[Post]

Sounds like it is designed to give people a gut check. Is this Warren Doyle's group?

Yes.

What is a "gut check"? Good thing or bad?

[Cannibal]

Is it safe to assume the 'training' is slack packing too? If so, 20 mile days will be long and exhausting, but certainly doable over the PA terrain even by an inexperienced hiker...IMO.
But, yeah I wouldn't want to deal with a forced march with a group, which is kind of what this sounds like.

[Post]

Is it safe to assume the 'training' is slack packing too? If so, 20 mile days will be long and exhausting, but certainly doable over the PA terrain even by an inexperienced hiker...IMO.
But, yeah I wouldn't want to deal with a forced march with a group, which is kind of what this sounds like.

It doesn't sound to me like it's slack-packing. The website clearly says "backpack", NOT slack-pack.

Even if it IS slackpacking, that's still a lot to ask from tender newbies, IMO. Heck, I've got a lot of backpacking experience, and I'm younger than my friend, and I personally would not start out the hiking season with a 23.5 mile hike the very first day, EVEN if it was slack-packing. That just seems to be asking for trouble, whether it's huge blisters, a fall from exhaustion or just a really, really crappy, discouraging day.

[drastic_quench]

Talk her out of it. Hiking partners are hard enough to stay with. This sounds like a cluster f_ck waiting to happen. Convince her she can handle it on her own or with a buddy, and send her here to read the FAQs and articles.

The "gut check" approach is the worst way to go about something that's supposed to be enjoyable. Boot camp, football practice, sure - but not hiking.

[Cannibal]

It doesn't sound to me like it's slack-packing. The website clearly says "backpack", NOT slack-pack.

Even if it IS slackpacking, that's still a lot to ask from tender newbies, IMO. Heck, I've got a lot of backpacking experience, and I'm younger than my friend, and I personally would not start out the hiking season with a 23.5 mile hike the very first day, EVEN if it was slack-packing. That just seems to be asking for trouble, whether it's huge blisters, a fall from exhaustion or just a really, really crappy, discouraging day.

Yeah, you are probably right. Especially about the blisters; didn't think of that. A fully loaded pack with that mileage would be unreasonable for a new hiker or even a vetern hiker that hasn't hiked in a few months to do on the first day out.

[Post]

Okay, it's definately backpacking, with full pack. Here is a quote from the site (bolding mine):

"an individual must participate in at least 16 days of group preparation. They also must complete at least two, three-day, 60+mile practice hikes with backpack between April 3, 2009 and April 5, 2010"

[Roots]

If what you say about your friends previous backpacking experience is true, then this is an accident waiting to happen. Between risk of injury to her 'unconditioned' body and/or lack of experience, this will be a miserable trip for her, IMO.

[Mr. Parkay]

Well, this hiking group might not be the right fit for your friend... however, from Warren Doyes Perspective is seems that a "tough" test hike like this would be absolutely necessary.

From what I understand, he guides about 10+ hikers every year, who all need to hike the same number of miles every day. So he has to be sure that every single one of them is in good shape... and willing to push themselves if they have to. Otherwise the hiking group would fall apart real fast.

Anyhow, hiking in a group like this definitely wouldn't work for me, but I've heard that his groups have a very high completion rate.. and that they tend to have a great time.

[SGT Rock]

Yes.

What is a "gut check"? Good thing or bad?

Gut check is what it is. It is often designed to get you to know you can do something you may think you cannot do. Many people think they cannot do 20 mile days, so start off with 23. By the time you finish it, you realize you can do it. After that, the other miles seem easy. It also serves to weed out those that really cannot do it, or do not have the mental attitude to overcome their belief they cannot do something.

Gut checks usually are not fun while you do them, but often are something you can look back at proudly as an accomplishment.

It doesn't sound to me like it's slack-packing. The website clearly says "backpack", NOT slack-pack.

Even if it IS slackpacking, that's still a lot to ask from tender newbies, IMO. Heck, I've got a lot of backpacking experience, and I'm younger than my friend, and I personally would not start out the hiking season with a 23.5 mile hike the very first day, EVEN if it was slack-packing. That just seems to be asking for trouble, whether it's huge blisters, a fall from exhaustion or just a really, really crappy, discouraging day.

If this is Warren Doyel's group, then I would imagine Warren has been through all this before. This is not his first rodeo. I would imagine he is smart enough to know bail out points for those that truly cannot do it, and he probably doesn't pick the worst 23.5 mile section to do it in. Give Warren some credit on this.

Talk her out of it. Hiking partners are hard enough to stay with. This sounds like a cluster f_ck waiting to happen. Convince her she can handle it on her own or with a buddy, and send her here to read the FAQs and articles.

The "gut check" approach is the worst way to go about something that's supposed to be enjoyable. Boot camp, football practice, sure - but not hiking.

Well that is where you gotta know the person and they have to know themselves. While I wouldn't want to do this sort of hike, you may want to look at it from their perspective.

Warren Doyle has done lots of these. He seems to have a good completion rate. Given that many people do not finish, someone worried they do not have the self discipline or the foresight to anticipate everything may feel this is a better option.

Warren's group doesn't carry packs all over the place - so if you don't want to get accustomed to a 50 pound pack, this is a good option.

Some people do not like to be alone. This ensures you are bonded into a group of people dedicated to the same goal. Sort of like a weight loss group.

The gut check is also to give the folks a dose of realism. Your friend can do one of these and decide that it ain't worth it. Sometimes it is better someone discovers for themselves that something ain't going to work than for someone to try and convince them it won't ahead of time.

[Post]

Well, this hiking group might not be the right fit for your friend... however, from Warren Doyes Perspective is seems that a "tough" test hike like this would be absolutely necessary.

From what I understand, he guides about 10+ hikers every year, who all need to hike the same number of miles every day. So he has to be sure that every single one of them is in good shape... and willing to push themselves if they have to. Otherwise the hiking group would fall apart real fast.

Anyhow, hiking in a group like this definitely wouldn't work for me, but I've heard that his groups have a very high completion rate.. and that they tend to have a great time.

Okay, the concept sounds reasonable. But still, a 23.5 mile FIRST DAY? With FULL PACK and (probably) NEW BOOTS*? I mean, why? Why not start modestly and let them work up to that? A 60-mile 3-day hike is certainly reasonable for the last hike before they leave, but the very first one? I care about my friend, I don't want to see her get hurt or be in tears before her first ever day on the AT is over...

* I will definately stress to her that she needs to break in her new boots extremely well before going on this. But walking around town or even day-hiking isn't the same stress on feet and boots as backpacking with full pack on steep/uneven terrain. There is still a huge probability of bad blisters with that kind of mileage...

[Tractor]

Post. Perhaps find out a bit more about this upcoming hike and post more detail? On the surface it doesn't sound like anything I would want to participate in, on either side of the fence. IF it is more "supported" than most of us could imagine then possibly not so bad for those with the desire to see it through?? Could be a walking trip sorta like those supported canoe/fishing trips where most basic needs are covered each day 'cept for the motion. I dunno.

[CowHead]

Warning unless you love or grew up with your trail partner issues will arise. I'll take friends for an overnighter but four days on the trail and I wouldn't like them anymore or vice a versa it takes a special person to hike long distance with friends or strangers. If you need anymore proof watch amazing race

[Slo-go'en]

I was toying with the idea of signing up for this "circle hike". The idea of slack packing 99% of the AT is appealing - BUT, then I thought about it some more.

It is a forced march. It starts out with big miles which never let up and zeros are few and far between. Camping is at road crossings. Sure you get to hike the whole AT in 145 days or something like that, but it doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me. Good luck to anyone who does join Warren's speed hike.

Think I'll hike across America on the ADT next year instead. That's the plan anyway.

[Lone Wolf]

Hello,

I have a good friend who just signed up for what looks like a "guided slack-pack" thru-hike of the AT next year (2010). She will be hiking with a group, they are all expected to hike together, stay together and start and end the trail together as s group. While there appears to be some bona fide backpacking, it looks like the organizers will be slack-packing them most of the time.

This style of long-distance hiking does not particularly appeal to me (I prefer to hike solo and make all my own decisions as I go), but that's not really my concern. What worries me is the training regimen for the thru-hike.

My friend is a mid-50's female, in good shape and has done some weekend backpacking in her life but certainly nothing even approaching the scale of even a typical week on the Trail.

The first preparation hike is coming up in a few weeks. The participants are expected to get to the trailhead at 5 am Then on their very first day, hike 23.5 miles. The next day they do 18 miles, then the final day is a 20-miler. Um, 60 miles in 3 days? With a 5 am start that means probably not enough sleep right out of the gate? That sure seems like a grueling schedule for a very first-ever backpacking trip. Expecially for out-of-shape people with brand new boots and equipment. I've done a few 23 mile days, but only after being on the Trail for weeks and having my Trail Legs. I'm just worried that my friend is going to get discouraged at the very least, or injured at the worst. The hike is also in Pennsylvania in early April, when there still could be snowstorms, or freezing rain.

Is this as bad an idea as it sounds to me? I do understand that the hike is being organized by a very experienced person who has thru-hiked the AT multiple times, so I concede that he has more experience than I do. But still, I just don't see how this 60-mile first hike in only 3 days is a good idea, especially for older folks.

Thoughts, anyone?

your friend is a grown adult and i assume competent and able to make her own decisions. it's really none of your business how she chooses to walk the AT. nobody is forcing her to do this

[Frosty]

I would say that by the time a person reaches their mid-fifties, they have earned the right to make decisions for themselves.

That does not mean you shouldn't give her your thoughts, you should. You should tell her them. Once.

Telling someone something once is giving advice. Telling twice is nothing more thna nagging. They already know how you feel, so you are providing no new information. Trying to talk someone out of doing what they want is another way of saying you are badgering them.

Sorry, but a hike will not be fatal. It could be very painful. SHe could leave early and be wiser for it. She could finish, sore and in deep pain, and regard it proudly as one of her great accomplishments. I have never hear anyone brag they hiked the 3 miles out from Deep Gap shelter to Dicks Creek Gap all in one day. Our greatest accomplishments are the tough days, the long days, the days when it snowed, the two days out after a bear got our food, the days we persevered and by God, we did it!

She has the right to decide. This looks suspiciously like gender stereotyping to me. If it was a male friend of yours who wanted to push the envelope, would it be so improtant to you to make sure he didn't take a chance on over-extending himself?

Give her your thoughts, then support her 100% no matter what she decides, do your best to helpo her succeed (instead of fussing that she will do it in new boots, take her hiking and help her break them in) and if she doesn't make it, kindly refrain from saying, "I told you do."

Most people probably couldn't do this. Not because they couldn't do it physically, but the mental grind is enough to make most people cry uncle. Like getting through the VIrginia Blues, it is more mind than muscle that carries the day.

Don't feel bad that this is too much for you to do. Maybe it isn't too much for her to handle.

[Post]

Sometimes it is better someone discovers for themselves that something ain't going to work than for someone to try and convince them it won't ahead of time.

I agree. The last thing I want to do is talk her out of making her dream of thru-hiking the AT come true. I have been encouraging her on this, but that was before I found out about the Bataan Death March on day 1.

I have heard of Mr. Doyle, never met him, and don't have any opinion about him. However, I understand that he has thru'd like a gazillion times, and I certainly agree that he is WAY more experienced and knowledgeable that I am.

That said, I'm still worried about my friend getting hurt.

At this point, I'm not going to try to talk her into or out of anything. I'm just...worried is all.

[Frosty]

Why is it that Lone WOld and I say the same thing at the exact same time, but he says in one paragrpah what it take sme ten to say?