it might not be that easy. insurance investigators are not easily fooled, especially for him claim cases.Originally Posted by Sly
Interesting. Sounds like I need to re-visit my insurance agreement. When me and friends go backpacking we share vehicles. From what you are saying my auto insurance won't pay for any medical cost of my passengers because I violated my agreement? Those of you in car pools to work better be paying attention.
That's my dog, Echo. He's a fine young dog.
If you believe in Murphys law you won't shuttle for money unless you have coverage.
I wouldn't know, never dealt with one. It seems to me insurance companies are reluctant to pay even if you have the correct coverage.
Thats not what I'm saying. Giving friends rides is a normal activity. Car pooling is a normal activity. Picking up class mates or team members while taking your own kids to an event or activity is normal family use. Helping out some hikers that may be in need of assistance on occasion may be considered a normal activity. The problem you may run into is that if you are listed somewhere as a shuttle the insurance company will have a case against you.
The OP was a question about starting a shuttle service. There is alot of risk involved. You can easily get strapped with a lifetime of bills if you are not properly insured.
thanks for clearing that up. i was about to call bs.
I'm understanding his point now. I read too much into the "shuttling kids to Sunday School" line. I assume now he meant as a business, not as a fellow church member.thanks for clearing that up. i was about to call bs.
That's my dog, Echo. He's a fine young dog.
I usually just pick up hikers along the trail. Or if I am at a hostel, and its busy, I will ask if its ok to lend a hand.
Generally, I don't charge, if I am heading that way.
As for territory, its free game.
You can also advertise your services at outfitters and hostels, or anywhere hikers hang out.
For prices, you need to be competitive yet be humble enough that hikers will use your service. You will have to figure out how much gas you spend per location at cost for you. Then add a little profit for you.
Some places have a minimum. Others will have set price for distance. Others will charge extra going up forest or 4x4 roads.
I remember Johnny's quoting $35 for a shuttle to Devils Fork Gap, Sams Gap, or Spivey Gap. All about 20 minutes of Erwin.
Then LW is pretty generous with his service.
''Tennessee Viking'
Mountains to Sea Trail Hiker & Maintainer
Former TEHCC (AT) Maintainer
yeah, a better example would have helped. i took my first donation last year when gas prices were high. normally, i refuse any sort of payment partly because of the insurance concern
Ya, Sunday school was not the best example. I was thinking that if the school bus or van broke down and they called upon a shuttle operator to help out....not a member of the chuch gathering up the flock for worship.
It's easy enough when listed to, "call or email for details." I was listed on several pages including the ATC and I was not about to get extra insurance for a half dozen shuttles per season, paid or not.
Perhaps Zoid can use a waiver form?
Last edited by Sly; 04-11-2009 at 14:58.
Your never going to make any real money shuttling hikers. If you do it, then do it because you want to help. And yea, I would charge a fixed price and take my chances with having a accident, otherwise your going to loose money.
Panzer
I suspect your insurer would consider that little bit of gas money a "for hire" transaction.
The only time they will find out about it is if you have a claim involving injuries to someone who paid you that gas money, or another vehicle's occupants during that same transaction. At that point, the investigators will be looking for a reason not to pay the claim. But don't take it from me, be as upfront with your scenario as you have been here and ask your insurer.
While you're asking around, you may want to find out where your state's DMV (or equivalent) stands on this same scenario.
I would have to read the fine print on an insurance contract to be sure this is the case. It may vary insurer-to-insurer. What this Sunday school scenario does not have, it seems, is a pay-for-service element. That is what we're discussing here.
Living in and around the Amish i see them using drivers daily. Guess i still believe America is home of the free. If i so desire to drive someone somewhere i'll do it. Be a cold day in ,,,when i stop living my life and worry about the lawyers.
We used to get asked to shuttle hikers to and/or from trails as part of a hiking service. The insurance to carry people in your vehicle costs a fortune, and getting special use permits from the Forest Service is a very special process!!!!
I don't think we ever made money on any of the shuttles that we did...but we did meet some very nice people!
since I know basically nothing about this I can of course claim a high degree of expertise. Ron Haven was required by the Forest Service to purchase a $300 annual sticker for his hiker bus. Note that he does NOT charge a fee for shuttling. Since he picks up hikers on a daily basis on FS roads the local forester told him it was a business and required him to purchase a sticker.
Good Samaritan laws were passed in many states because people who stopped to help out in emergency situations were being sued by opportunistic "victims" and their willing lawyers. Depending on the good will of those you help could become a very expensive educational opportunity for anyone with attachable assets.
To my limited knowledge this point is so far just theoretical. No hostel owner or shuttle provider has yet been involved in an injury that resulted in a personal injury claim. When/if it happens it's likely to have a huge impact on services available along the trail. I'm guessing that many hostels and shuttlers operate below the radar as far as business licenses, liability insurance, and those pesky income requirements by taxing authorities. Should that ever see a significant change the cost is likely to take a huge leap upwards.
Dyslexics Untie!
And we will have the lawyers to thank.
I love the smell of esbit in the morning!
And the long arm of the law knows it too:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07364/845400-85.stm
As I understand it, hostel or motel owners who give rides for free would not be covered under either state laws requiring for-hire operating permits; nor would be violating the no-for-hire clause of their non-commercial insurance policies.
It's not that uncommon for hostels and motels to offer a free ride back to the Trail, or into town to shop. But it is also pretty common for hostel and motel owners to have a sideline shuttle business where they do charge a fee for transportation services. Those at a higher pay scale will need to figure that one out.
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