Training for the AT; conversion between hiking near home & hiking AT for real?

[minnesotasmith]

I am hoping to NOBO thru-hike the AT starting in Jan. or Feb. 2006. My experience with anything having to do with the AT (I just moved to GA from MN) is restricted to the Approach Trail starting at Amicalola and 63 miles on the AT while in Boy Scouts 20 years ago. My question is:

What would you guys who've hiked serious percentages of the AT proper say one mile on the AT with an average pack converts to for # of miles on near-flat at home with, and without, a pack of comparable weight? This would really help me with gauging how my training is going, especially since I will only infrequently be able to get to the AT proper before I try thru-hiking. I've gotta do some serious OT to save up for my thru-hike attempt only about 18 months out, after all.

[JimSproul]

I live in rather flat North Texas. I have trained for hikes in the rockies (Philmont) the last two springs, and for the start of the AT in the spring of this year. The last two years I have felt ready for the trail when I started with no unusual problems. You did not list your age, I am 52, here is what worked for me.

I add a mile for every three miles to compensate for lack of hills.

I also climb 300 floors per week on a Stairmaster at the local YMCA. The real kind where you have to lift you body, not just peddle your feet.

My first year I had foot problems, so now I do my training hikes, with fullpack AND WATER, on rail road track. I walk on the ties/ballast between the rails or on the side of the trail. The I hoped that the uneven surface would give me more trail like conditions. The first couple of times your shins and calves will let you know.

It works for me. I take my time but no aches or pains, other than normal "Gray Beard" stuff.

[rgarling]

The average length of your pace will decrease a little over 10%.

If you image the level of effort taken to walk at 3 miles / hour around your neighborhood (flat terrain), that level of effort will get you around 2 miles along an average section of trail (with a light pack). I wouldn't try to scale this up any (like if I use the level of effort to walk 4mph on the flat, then I'll get 2 2/3 miles along the AT). A lot more effort doesn't buy the expected increase in speed.

[Jaybird]

I am hoping to NOBO thru-hike the AT starting in Jan. or Feb. 2006...........................
What would you guys who've hiked serious percentages of the AT proper say one mile on the AT with an average pack converts to for # of miles on near-flat at home with, and without, a pack of comparable weight? This would really help me with gauging how my training is going, especially since I will only infrequently be able to get to the AT proper before I try thru-hiking............................................ .......................................

MinnesotaSmith

WOW..i'm envious of your attempt already! Welcome to the South...

like rgarling said...have a "quick" pace around your neighborhood (i trained @ 3.5-4mph) with a full pack on (10% more weight than expected trail weight). start slow & work up to several hours...

also, a stairclimber or a treadmill with a 10-15 degree incline is good for prep.
i used the treadmill @ 15 degree incline with 40lb pack on @ 3+mph...

my average on the trail is about 2mph.

i live in middle TN...rolling hills...i train in East TN...larger hills & mountains.

but, no matter where you train...no trail is like stepping onto the APPALACHIAN TRAIL!

good luck!

[hungryhowie]

In my experience, walking on flat land (even with a pack) is fairly poor training for walking up mountain trails with a pack on. While I do walk (I can't help it, I like to walk), I ride my bicycle for real training which strengthens my cardio, knees and legs. Stair climbing is probably the closest exercise to what you'll be doing on the trail and if I had access to a good stair climber, I'd use it. Unfortunately, the closest I get is about 30 floors/week at school...all taken separately between classes.

-Howie

[tlbj6142]

Stair climbing is probably the closest exercise to what you'll be doing on the trail

I've noticed that while climbing up and down real stairs (I did a quick 20 floors yesterday) that it really works your quads and calves on the way up. But seems to ignore your glutes and your hamstrings. The later two are what bother me the most while hiking uphill on a trail.

Going down stairs does seem to affect my knees a bit, but nowhere near as bad as a rocky path. The difference in stride seems to provide a bit more cusion on stairs than on a trail.

I think this is becuase the stride on stairs is different than on a pathway. On stairs you tend to land on the balls of your feet (going up and down), while on a trail your heel typically hits first.

Of cousre not having a pack on does make a difference on stairs, but that is easy to remedy.

[SGT Rock]

OK, I did some training up for my 2002 AT hike that actually was pretty good and put me in fairly good shape that left me with little pain at the end of the first 15 mile days. To do this though was sort of painful for me here though.

This part of Louisiana isn't totally flat, so to get ready I did some 6-12 mile speed hikes, at a 4 MPH speed. To make that speed I basically had to run downhills and do the best I could on the uphills. I did this with a 35 pound pack and full battle rattle. I did these forced marches a couple times a week. I did a long day of 24 miles at 3 MPH. Add to that some squats with my ruck on, running 2 to 4 miles a day (unless it was a rucking day). What I have found from backpacking here in Louisiana and on the AT is a ratio about like this: 1000' of elevation gain on the AT feels about like another mile in Louisiana. So a 12 mile day on the AT with an overall elevation gain of 3,000 feet (add up all the uphills, ignore downhills) feels about the same as a 15 mile day in Louisiana. so my highest milage day in Louisiana was about 24 miles, and it felt about the same as an 18 mile day on the AT with 6,000 foot overall elevation gain.

[Kozmic Zian]

Yea.....Trainin'. Walkin' fast with weight (pack), heavier boots. Or train with the gear you'll be wearing up the Trail. It's good to get your body phyically in shape, and your
feet, ankles, and knees also. Do stretching of hamstrings, calves, achiales tendons, back. Do 'compression cruches' with weight. Full squats, anything for the groin and 'gut' area. Lots of walking with footwear of choice and full pack. That'll do ya. Start about 6-8 months before doing the LDH, and you'll be ready. KZ@

[minnesotasmith]

What's "LDH"?

[TedB]

I like making up numbers, so I would say:
1) very hilly terrain to absolutely flat terrain, you need 2x the miles
2) heavy pack (1/3 body weight) to no pack, you need 1.5x the miles

Put together, a 12 mile day on the trail with a heavy pack would be about like a 36 mile day on flat terrain without a pack. All these numbers are very, very approximate.

[SGT Rock]

Dang Ted, those numbers look high.

[Pencil Pusher]

I've done some mean hikes and climbs and I think people underestimate the value of simply walking. I've gotten back into shape several times just walking during lunch, then power walking, then going up stairs. It's all about baby steps, like that "What about Bob?" movie quote. If you look at the big picture, you can get lost. Just focus on the little stuff and before you know it, you'll be there. Ride the bicycle alot for zero impact training (good for the knees). Thank goodness for the edit button, here's another tip for doing training hikes up hills or stairs: Stuff a water carrier into your backpack and fill it up. Drain that bad boy when you get to the top to save your knees on the hike down. If you can't drain it because the stairs are in a building, take the elevator, doofus

Don't forget about proper nutrition either. You don't have to be a calorie counting freak, just use common sense when thinking about what you're going to eat. What exercise used to take care of by itself, now it takes both exercise and nutrition. It helps if your spouse or significant other can go this route too, as temptation at the homestead is hard to resist.
Lastly, if you're gonna take 30 pounds off your gut, try and do the same for your pack and vice versa. There's some mysterious line between being miserable and comfortable, going light(er). Good luck finding it

Oh yeah, and another good tip: Try to drink a gallon of water a day. You'll freak out reading this, but it helps on both the nutrition and physical side. It's pretty easy if you think about it. Drink one liter before you go to work, another during lunch, another at dinner, and hopefully some in between all those. It might be an added bonus that you won't be able to drink coffee and sodas in order to accomplish this gallon-a-day goal. Water also is a proactive measure for cramps or charlie horses or whatever you call those painful muscle spasms. That's basically your muss-kulls screaming for more water and when they scream, you scream

[minnesotasmith]

with those kinds of conversions; but, I kind of knew that. Yesterday I walked about 4.5 miles repeatedly around a nearby park in 1 hr. 55 minutes (no pack, no breaks); was on sod 95% of the time, with only minor uphills. I was going to go back to Amicalola this weekend to see if I could do an overnight to Springer and back, but I think I'll wait til next weekend. One more week to build up some stamina, and all that. I figure if I don't take squat besides food, water, and the clothes on my back (well, OFF, a compass, and a flashlight, too), pack weight won't be the issue; just my condition, the temps, and the terrain.

I ran cross-country and track (2-miler) in high school, but that was over 20 years and more than a few pounds ago. The longest two races I was in were a 10-miler on a sandy island (last 3 miles on &%# loose sand) and a 30-kilometer race through pretty serious mountains (about 18 miles, if memory serves). I'd been running 5+, occasionally 7 miles a day on relatively level terrain at a respectable clip, but I hit the wall in a big way around the 14-mile point during the race. It was all I could do after that to put one foot in front of the other in a way remotely suggestive of a running mode. I had 17 blisters by the time I got to the end (I counted), and my shoes were fully broken-in beforehand, too.

I also used to play something similiar to paintball 10 years or so ago. It commonly involved sprinting through scrub and rolling terrain with about 10 pounds of gear around the hips, diving into trenches, bellying through tall grass and brush, etc.; not sure how applicable that would be to normal hiking. I don't figure that adrenalin is something likely to figure in in regular distance hiking much (unless a bear or nearsighted overenthusiastic hunter is involved), though. I still remember very clearly sometimes lying on my back for minutes gasping like a beached fish with exhaustion after games; surely that won't be the case while hiking the AT with a pack, as long as I'm not being dumb and trying to go too fast for the terrain? That was done in full boots, though, and I never felt serious pain in my feet or shins from it. Walking purely on concrete or asphalt (even in good running shoes) now seems much more uncomfortable than doing all that stuff in full boots was; I suspect that it was because I was on soft sod with no rocks most of the time when playing that game with my buds.

I know that altitude is not a problem for me, either; I did some moderate hiking in Colorado near Idaho Springs for a couple of days at over 7000' elevation around that time and it didn't seem to affect me for squat. The AT doesn't have anything over about 6000', right? Anyway, the higher it is, the cooler it should be, and lower temps are my friend if I'm doing anything strenous, so there should be some cancelling out.

I've noticed that if it's hot, there is a MUCH lower limitation on how fast I can walk; my stamina is not as affected, but my top cruising speed sure goes to Hades. I have a whole acre of somewhat hilly lawn that needs mowing close to weekly now, and only a push mower to take care of it; that's how I have recent info on this. My family wants me to get a riding mower, but no way; suffering with mowing my yard every few days is part of my training for the AT, is how I see it. (No, I won't come mow your yard, though.)

If you take a look at the weather section of your newspaper, you'll see that Minneapolis is still often running about 20/10 high/low lower than Atlanta is for temps; I'm still getting used to the heat here. The May/June temps here are more like what I was used to in July there. Around September 20 it would always reliably drop to where the highs were 70s at worst, with cool nights (there's been snow in September there before, and in the 1st week of May that I have seen). So, I have a lot of getting used to heat to go yet. OTOH, if it's 25 degrees with little wind, all I need is a sweatshirt and a stocking cap, and I'm good as long as I don't sit down for too long or get sweaty. Being pretty resistant to cold (but NOT to heat) is why I want to leave to thru-hike the AT in early Feb. at the latest.

So, anyway, from what related personal experience I have, I would have to say that a fairly pessimistic conversion between flat miles near home and in the mountains is probably about right.

[whcobbs]

Minnesota--

Training beforehand certainly helps, but unless that training was long distance through-hiking you will still have training to do on the trail. The impact loading from backpacking (even ultralight) is substantial. From personal experience, cycling, swimming, and even marathon training do not completely substitute. So feel your way in the first few weeks on the AT with easy miles (10/d) and a hard/easy alternating day schedule for the first six weeks. The time you "lose" will be gained back if you remain injury free, after the first month you will have a much better sense of where you stand and can increase the weekly mileage at about 10%/ week.

Happy trails,
Walt

[sloetoe]

You guys have posted a bunch of great info.

Here's my contribution:
Find yourself an obstacle course for yer legs. I run trails and ultra-marathons while generally only having downtown Indianapolis to train from, and it's hard for me to maintain the proprioception stuff -- the on-the-fly balance, the non-injuring recovery from stepping on uneven ground, that sort of thing -- while training on the concrete that is generally the only running surface available. So I have to get creative:
There are 3'x3'x8' limestone "benches" along the downtown "river walk"; there is a 50' high embankment, roughly landscaped, topped with occasional police call-boxes; numerous curbs, narrow ground level landscape beams to traverse, etc. I jump up, stride across, and jump down the benches, zig-zag up and down the embankment, staying away from ramps and aiming toward curbs, whenever I am running to prep for "trail". BOY does that uneven ground take it out of you, but after just two weeks' worth of ramping up (so to speak) right now, I can again testify to tremendous effectiveness. (While it might *seem* like pure strength training, when the benefits hit, it is pure endurance *relief*.)

Sloetoe
two weeks,
God help him,
from running a hundred miler
on 20 miles per week.......

PS: FWIW, when I'm *really* in shape (which I would be closer to if I had another month to train, dammit), I'll do 6:00-6:15/mile on the flat, for a "hard" workout. For the "updie-downdie" workout, the pace (still done "hard") would be more like 8:00/mile or more. Also, Frank Shorter said "Hills are speedwork in disguise." The opposite is also true. Do lsd at 9:00, do leg strength (100, 200, 400 yards) as hard as you can repeat 10 times evenly. Find a soccer game.

[minnesotasmith]

I would wonder about one aspect of them not being entirely exactly like the Trail: on stairs, although you are going up (or down), your feet pretty much stay flat. Hiking a trail, your feet will be angled up or down.

Now, surely everything above the knees won't care about the difference, but I'll bet not just my feet and ankles will, but my calves and shins as well. Obviously the solution would have to be to find a long slope to train on by walking up it, in preference to stair-walking if possible, then.

[TedB]

Dang Ted, those numbers look high.

Well, I have idea on how to test my wild hypothesis if anyone is interested. Get yourself a heart rate monitor. Your heart rate is an indication of how much cardiovascular effort you are putting into an activity. So just maintain a constant heart rate (say 60% max) and measure your pace under different conditions. Try it on a rugged section of the AT with a monster pack. Try it walking around town with no weight on your back. Once you have these measurements, you can say that x miles of backpacking requires the same amount of effort as y miles of walking. See if your experience matches my expectations, or see if my expectations are way off.

Anyone see any major flaws in this method of comparison? I know there are lots of minor flaws.

[minnesotasmith]

Think I read this one in a book on running... What you do is day after day, when you wake up in the morning, lie motionless for five minutes, and take your pulse. If your pulse rate is going up day after day when measured that way, you are overtraining. If you don't ease off your training some, you will get a relapse of sorts that the Italian bicyclists call sur-menage, and you will lose some serious ground WRT your conditioning. Might be useful to remember on the trail, too...

[whcobbs]

Minnesota--

Yes, the waking AM basal pulse rate is a good guide to training progress for thru-hikers. Remember that bladder pressure elevates pulse rate, so pee first. For most people pulse rate will be less (by 1-3 beats) lying on the left side. An elevation of 3 beats may be significant and a 5/min increment calls for a review of training strategy. On a hard-easy alternate day mileage schedule ( e.g. 12mi/8mi ), an elevation of pulse on the morning following the hard day means you are pushing your limit; elevation after the easy day means you are probably overtraining. A couple of years ago I had to bail out of a winter AT section hike. Elevation of waking pulse was the first clue that I was beyond my training level.

Walt

[Bluebearee]

What's "LDH"?

Long Distance Hike