Rules of the park - no oversight

[Mrs Baggins]

Three of us just did a very nice 3 day, 2 night hike in SNP. When we were getting our permit at Dickey Ridge the ranger was hesitant to hand it over when we said we'd be staying at Pass Mt Hut the first night. He said "we like to keep that just for the thru-hikers." I smiled politely and said I knew that the bulk of them were still a long way south and wouldn't be needing it right now. Then he said "well you know it's close to the road and partiers like to fill it up over the weekend." So.......we as legitimate hikers needing the shelter for legitimate reasons were being discouraged from using it BUT weekend partiers off the road? Hey, no problem. We used the shelter - only 4 other people showed up, all hikers, none thruing, and it was no problem. Then there's the "no fires" rule. We spent the next night on Jeremy's Run Trail. We didn't have a fire, but apparently everybody else was! We could see and smell the smoke. Next day as we hiked past them their sites we could still see the smoldering and one family had quite the big blaze going. Not a ranger in sight. I won't take the "lack of staffing" argument - the "staff" we saw, 5 other rangers at the visitor's center, were standing around smokin' and jokin' in the parking lot with no particular hurry to be anywhere.

And dogs on the trail in National Parks? Passed one guy, big fully loaded pack on the AT, with his very large German Shepherd also carrying a pack, and happily hiking sobo down the trail. Does that rule apply only to the Smokies?

[Rain Man]

And dogs on the trail in National Parks? Passed one guy, big fully loaded pack on the AT, with his very large German Shepherd also carrying a pack, and happily hiking sobo down the trail. Does that rule apply only to the Smokies?

I think the Smokies and Baxter State Park, as I recall.

RainMan

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[kyhipo]

Three of us just did a very nice 3 day, 2 night hike in SNP. When we were getting our permit at Dickey Ridge the ranger was hesitant to hand it over when we said we'd be staying at Pass Mt Hut the first night. He said "we like to keep that just for the thru-hikers." I smiled politely and said I knew that the bulk of them were still a long way south and wouldn't be needing it right now. Then he said "well you know it's close to the road and partiers like to fill it up over the weekend." So.......we as legitimate hikers needing the shelter for legitimate reasons were being discouraged from using it BUT weekend partiers off the road? Hey, no problem. We used the shelter - only 4 other people showed up, all hikers, none thruing, and it was no problem. Then there's the "no fires" rule. We spent the next night on Jeremy's Run Trail. We didn't have a fire, but apparently everybody else was! We could see and smell the smoke. Next day as we hiked past them their sites we could still see the smoldering and one family had quite the big blaze going. Not a ranger in sight. I won't take the "lack of staffing" argument - the "staff" we saw, 5 other rangers at the visitor's center, were standing around smokin' and jokin' in the parking lot with no particular hurry to be anywhere.

And dogs on the trail in National Parks? Passed one guy, big fully loaded pack on the AT, with his very large German Shepherd also carrying a pack, and happily hiking sobo down the trail. Does that rule apply only to the Smokies?

understand seen people with dogs at that shelter,just let their dogs drink out of the spring!like we dont give a fk,like You my buddy dont hike,so dont take your mut down here and drink in our spring,or atleast have enough respect and take them down stream a little,regular snp bull****.ky

[zoidfu]

I think you can have a dog as long as it's leashed at all times.

[zoidfu]

I was there in January and 2 plainclothes rangers walked up on us at the Gravel Spring Hut. I was surprised, I didn't think they ever left their vehicles or the visitor center. I was with 3 other friends and they thought they had something for sure but we were on the up and up and they just chatted with us for about a half hour.

[tenbeer]

I didn't think their was a leash law in SNP? I'm pretty sure dogs are allowed.

[FlyPaper]

I was there in January and 2 plainclothes rangers walked up on us at the Gravel Spring Hut. I was surprised, I didn't think they ever left their vehicles or the visitor center. I was with 3 other friends and they thought they had something for sure but we were on the up and up and they just chatted with us for about a half hour.

A few years back we were approached by a ranger while at Gravel Spring Hut. It's not far from the road, so I suppose they visit it often.

In all fairness, we didn't have a permit. Somehow we missed the fact that we needed one. The ranger didn't give us the least amount of grief. I think it was clear to him we were legitimate hikers. Had we been the "weekend partying" crowd, my guess is he'd have come down hard on us for not having a permit.

[tenbeer]

A few years back we were approached by a ranger while at Gravel Spring Hut. It's not far from the road, so I suppose they visit it often.

In all fairness, we didn't have a permit. Somehow we missed the fact that we needed one. The ranger didn't give us the least amount of grief. I think it was clear to him we were legitimate hikers. Had we been the "weekend partying" crowd, my guess is he'd have come down hard on us for not having a permit.

I think things have changed since. I dropped my friend off at rockfish gap in late winter. He is a legitimate hiker. I warned him to register. He is also a stubborn hiker. He did not heed my advice and received a $50.00 fine. I also talked to hikers last year who received a ticket for not hanging a bear bag at the shelter. I believe things have gotten stricter. Also with federal funding dropping in natl parks, this is a source of revenue.

[CrumbSnatcher]

enforced leash laws i know:
Road crossing
Towns
Amicalola falls state park
southern & northern boundary of grayson highlands?
BRP/SNP
caledonia state park
pine grove furnace state park
bear mtn. state park
and a million other places, use good judgement.
Dogs are not allowed in the smokies, zoo,or BSP

[Mrs Baggins]

I didn't think their was a leash law in SNP? I'm pretty sure dogs are allowed.

This dog was not on a leash. No leash anywhere in sight. The hiker would just reach down now and then and hold the dog by the dog's pack. I was trying to hike ahead of the guy and the dog kept blocking me so that his owner could pass. That dog came up to my waist - I'm not real tall. I'm not afraid of dogs, but someone who is would definitely have been afraid of this one. The owner said "I'm taking him out on the trail to break him of some bad habits." Gee, thanks.

[emerald]

See ATC's Hiking with Dogs for a partial list and other pertinent information.

Hike the Trail > Plan a Hike > Hiking with Dogs

[tenbeer]

This dog was not on a leash. No leash anywhere in sight. The hiker would just reach down now and then and hold the dog by the dog's pack. I was trying to hike ahead of the guy and the dog kept blocking me so that his owner could pass. That dog came up to my waist - I'm not real tall. I'm not afraid of dogs, but someone who is would definitely have been afraid of this one. The owner said "I'm taking him out on the trail to break him of some bad habits." Gee, thanks.

I agree with you completely, dog owners should be considerate of others in public(on trail or not). Many people have allergies, phobias etc...When in doubt always exercise courtesy.

[sly dog]

I thought you could have a fire as long as it is a previously used or designated spot. Am I wrong? I am heading there next month and was looking forward to a nice small campfire at nights.

[emerald]

http://www.nps.gov/shen/planyourvisit/campbc_regs.htm

[emerald]

This dog was not on a leash. No leash anywhere in sight.

Did you point out leashes are required in SNP for all dogs even those which won obedience trials or belong to people who think they and their pet are special?

[chknfngrs]

Those permits are a necessarily evil unfortunately. It's a hoop we outdoorsmen created and a hoop we now have to jump through. I've registered at the same visitor center and caught moderate grief from probably the same rangers.

My solution was to play by the rules and get the permit, but without a ranger. When hiking in SNP overnight, I normally go to Thornton Gap off US211. It's fairly central to every district. There is an unmanned permit and registry near the old overlook restaurant. I've also acquired a permit from Old Rag parking area, mind you it was after midnight when I arrived, in late February, so no one was around.

Some on this board will argue that you should pay to play in that park, but to each his/her own. I think as long as you get your permit, you're golden.

As far as fires, I've never had a backcountry campfire in SNP, so can't speak on that. I had a cooking fire once at a campground site off Skyline, can't recall the name. Matthews Arm, methinks? I try to save campfires for car-camping anyways.

[Blissful]

Yeah, no fires except at huts or campgrounds.

And they are specific that the huts can be used by long distance hikers staying three or more consecutive nights. There is no distinction whether hikers are thru hikers or not.

And Pass mtn is at least a mile from the drive if I'm not mistaken. If anything, Bearfence gets all the weekenders. You can simply walk down the fire road there.

[Mrs Baggins]

Yeah, no fires except at huts or campgrounds.

And they are specific that the huts can be used by long distance hikers staying three or more consecutive nights. There is no distinction whether hikers are thru hikers or not.

And Pass mtn is at least a mile from the drive if I'm not mistaken. If anything, Bearfence gets all the weekenders. You can simply walk down the fire road there.

It's not that you have to stay at Pass Mt 3 nights - the regs say you are supposed to be hiking "3 days" but you can only stay at the hut for ONE night. That's posted on the hut itself. We were in the park for 3 days and still the ranger tried to keep us from staying there. Fee wise, we have a 12 month pass to the park so we have no desire to try to bypass the fees. We are absolute believers in "you use it, you pay for it."

[Pokey2006]

Regardless of whether there's a leash law, a dog owner should really put the pooch on a leash if encountering other people. I really hate it when I'm out jogging, and dogs get in my way, as the owner says "oh, she's really friendly, she won't hurt you." Sorry, I don't want to just take your word for it! But the darn thing on a leash!

Want your dog to run around freely, without a leash? That's what backyards are for.

No, I'm not a dog person. Not everyone is, which is something dog owners fail to realize sometimes.

[phishpapond]

You should have told the Ranger that the park rules state that The shelter are for any hiker out for 3 or more nights and they don't say except for when thru hikers are coming thru.

I just got back from SNP early today. My girl couldn't take the cold and rain so we left early. When we stop in at Big meadows to get our back country permit thay ask where you are going to stay every night. When I told them that we were going to stay at Byrd's nest 3 thay had no idea it opened to overnight camping on november 2008. Goverment idiot's