Great Trail Days!!!... BUT

[Miss Janet]

It really was a great time this weekend. The local Damascus volunteers had done a great job preparing for the event. The weather was really pretty good. The rain on Saturday night only slightly dampened the enthusiasm. The police did a great job with thier official duties. The stinky masses behaved themselves very well... I could and should continue about the positive things and overall it really was a great Trail Days... so why the BUT?


Several years ago there was great discussion here about a fee being charged for the first time. I felt then that it was only common sense that those camping at the "NEW" tent city should help pay for the costs associated with camping there. The city of Damascus promised improvements to the grounds and bathhouse paid for with some of the proceeds. Now several years later these things are the same as they were that first year and the fee has been doubled.

I was surprised to see that friends/family and hikers staying in the towns B&B's, at The Place or drivng into Damascus for just the day had to pay to just walk into the campground for any reason.

Many even had to pay the 5$ to come in to see the Gear reps. The vendors tried to have this stopped but I personally saw many people told that EVERY PERSON walking into the campground must pay the 5$. Many of these people walked away. Without cell phone service friends/family could not even notify those inside the campground.

If they were driving they also had to pay the 15$ parking fee. One officer told me that he was told that the bonfire was an event that people had to pay to attend? HUH???? Each night I was also told at the gate by officers that the Campground was SOLD OUT... not just the very limited parking but to walk ins as well. I had family turned away personally!

I feel that this unfairly places the financial burden of paying for Trail Days expenses directly on the people staying in the campground or visiting there... There is NO parking fee's anywhere else in town for any other events. There is no "ADDMISSION FEE" for any other public events that I am aware of... but sitting beside a fire for a couple of hours costs 5$. or coming to see your friends and family... or seeing the gear reps...

I also wonder why the officers are also the ones that are responsible for greeting campground guests and vistors and selling the addmission passes? I have never thought of this before but I have not ever seen this at any other kind of festival anywhere. I felt bad that these officers were asked repeatedly questions that they did not know the answers to. Most of them are not from Damascus or even familiar with the layout of the town. Thier directions for parking alternatives sometimes led to tickets. They were frustrated and tired of hearing the same questions.

I am just wondering if this had any one elses attention or if I am just PMS'ing?

[Skyline]

I thought the reason behind the admission fee had to do with controlling entrance to the Tent City area because of crime issues in past years. If so, it seems to have helped.

Miss Janet, I agree with you about some of the other issues you raise. How can the Tent City be "sold out"? Isn't it sitting on like 60 acres of ground? I was there just visiting Thursday and Friday and saw lots of unused space. Had to leave Saturday, so perhaps it filled up? Doubt it.

IMHO they should allow the gear reps to return to the Town Park where they set up before the camping hikers were kicked out of town and segregated at Tent City. If they were allowed to return to the Town Park, gear reps would gain more exposure to TD attendees other than just those camping at Tent City. Also it would end the issue of paying to see them.

[trippclark]

Miss Janet,

I think that your criticisms are legitimate. I was not, have not, and will not stay in the campground myself. I'm just not into the late night revelry that I hear about, but for those who enjoy that, fine, HYOH. I did come to the campground area on Saturday early evening to see the Footpath display across the street and see the vendors/manufacturers. I was not asked to pay the $10 parking fee, and did not see anyone collecting, but the sign alone almost turned me away. Likewise, when I entered the campground, I was not asked to pay a gate fee, but as I walked past the officers at the entrance, I got the "feeling" that I was somehow trespassing. If I had been asked to pay a $5 fee, as your post explains that others did have to do, I would not have entered.

I have no problem with the town earning revenue from the event. They should. The t-shirt sales, booth rental fees, and even a modest camping fee to use the campground do seem fair. Charging to park -- and only at that one lot -- and charging a gate fee to walk into the campground does seem to be way over the top.

All that said, as you stated in your post, Trail Days was and is a wonderful and fun event, and overall the town does an amazing job with it. I have been to 5 out of the past 6 and hope to attend many more!

Tripp

[Canada Goose]

When you go to the zoo, there is normally an admission fee to see the caged animals...

I was only able to visit for a short while, but I was shocked when they told me about the $5 fee to visit. I too, found it strange that it was the police doing the collecting. Nowhere had I seen, or heard, of this policy ahead of time; in retrospect it seems like it was applied arbitrarily - they could do it, so they did.

Fees to camp, and park, are reasonable and defensible. Fees to visit tho...??

Sorry I missed you, Miss JHonk!

[Blissful]

I walked into the gear areas without having to pay anything. But I agree to keep the baddies out, that the $5 fee for the campground seems reasonable.

[SawnieRobertson]

It is an odd thing, but I have repeatedly through the years since 1997 become lost in Damascus. This year was no exception. I parked beside the Youth Center on Friday, saw that there was not a breath of air left at Lion King's presentation, and decided to head for the park to see friends. Thinking the park was just up the road, I headed out towards what turned out to be the camping area. It was not a bad walk, but the walk was more than I had been cleared to do by my orthopod post knee surgery.
Always thinking it was just a little farther up the road, I turned down offers by the shuttlers, but it was hot, and I was hurting.

Imagine my lack of delight when this young man challenged me as I began to walk through the gate: "What are you doing here? What do you want? Why are you here?"

What? I told him that I wanted to go to the vendors and to see friends. (I had not noticed any signs about $5.00 for the privilege.) He continued to question me, then finally let me pass through the gate with the order: "Be out in 30 minutes."

If I hadn't been so concerned about my knee, I would have done more than just talked with the Leki people and glanced at the other vendors' offerings. I could see that there were tents beyond, but I did not know that I had entered THE campground.

I was deeply offended by this young man's attitude, and I was not sure by what authority he was limiting my access to an area which obviously called for open visiting.
All I could think of was that he would make a good candidate for a role as a member of the Gestapo in a grade B movie.

Now I am sorry that I did not walk in deeper. Maybe Ms Janet was there. Maybe all the other friends that I never did see were in there too.

But I wandered on out, headed back to town, and eventually found the park and the vendors who were not under protection from the visiting public. I got to talk with Tin Man, Dawg, Dutch Treat, Pog, Ed Speer, Heartfire and her husband, Kirby, Sunset, Leap Frog, JoJo, Judith Foster, Baltimore Jack, Jan L., Pirate, Ron Haven, Laurie P., 30-30, AWOL, Atroll, and Sunset, but where were Marta, Yard Sale, Hummingbird, Ms Janet, Vera? The only way to know was to passively wait to see if they would come strolling by rather than go in search of.

So, if you were camping in there, did they provide you with some sort of pass so that you could come and go? Did they boss you around? I've known since 2005 hat they had tazers. This just seemed like the same mentality that would make that little, insigniicant town arm itself, fearing the most innocent as well as what must have been the most terribly unwelcome guests. I feel that they were incapable of telling the difference.--Kinnickinic

[Jim Adams]

The only crimes that were committed according to the police were the underage drinking of the locals from Damascus and Abingdon. I know of no other event that can have that many "partying" people and be so peaceful. No fights, no violence, no problems. So my questions are the same as Miss Janet. Why charge so many people a fee if you do not do or provide anything for that fee. It is not a "pretty" campground and not one improvement has been made since the first year there. The vendors are there but everything else is in town requiring walks, the shuttle bus or driving your own vehicle and losing your limited space parking spot (that you already paid for). The campground itself was nowhere near full. On top of all of this, my friends daughter after losing her paid for parking spot in the campground parking area parked in the ball park parking lot just until another spot opened up for her to pull into. She recieved a parking ticket ($25) because she had Georgia licence plates. Everyone with out of state plates recieved a parking ticket for parking in an unmarked legal lot at 3 in the afternoon because they were told that only Virginia plated cars were there to watch the ball games.
I had the best Trail Days that I've ever had because of the friends that I got to see but as far as being the "friendliest town", nothing that Damascus did made my trip better other than just having the event. This peaceful gathering of people is obviously a part of the towns major income for the year. I feel that it is time that the town gives something back....just my opinion.

geek

[chiefduffy]

I walked in to Damascus on Thursday, picked up my truck and drove to the campground. Paid my $5 for camping and $15 for parking FOR THE NEXT 4 DAYS, parked my truck, unloaded my bicycle and set up camp. Bicycle worked great for getting around, truck worked great for storage, camp for sleeping. I can't imagine a better deal. Getting someone other than cops to collect the fee is a good idea, tho.

[RAT]

Hey Miss Janet !

Yes Trail Daze was another great year as always. HAIRNT !

I was lucky enough to catch you in the Park on Saturday as I spent several hours there and hung out near my blue-blazing (now pink lol) hiker trash friend, Lowrider where he had his sticker booth setup, in hopes of seeing many of my friends who I knew would be at the campground. I did see many which was awesome. I also hiked in the parade but there were still so many I did not ever see. (although I heard one came to Hairntville but it was before I arrived, I got there around 1ish)

I stayed at The Campground one year back when it was first conceived, even moved all of Hobocentral Headquarters there as well. We all had a great time that year and there were only a few minor incidents but there has always been a strong police presence which if they knew anything about hiker trash they would know is not needed. We are perfectly capable of policing ourselves ! lol

I surely miss the good old days by the creek in town when hikers were allowed to be there before the growing numbers finally outgrew the space and it had to be moved to the only suitable location anywhere near town which is The Campground aka Toxic Waste Dump. The amount of police enforcement used is definitely not needed and i think it does have a negative effect on the atmosphere but keep in mind that it is not Damascus city police but rather it is the county that does that, not to mention the other agencies that are there.

I also miss Hobocentral HQ being in town as it gave me a better chance to see my friends as they could more easily drop down the Creeper trail to the house beside the trestle near the swimming pool to visit and it was closer for me to get out to The Campground but then there is this "visitation fee" thing that for some reason something inside me doesn't agree with so I have not been back to the campground since.

The camping fees and parking fees seem fair to me as it does cost the town a lot of $ to pay for Trail Daze but to have to pay to walk in to vist and not camp does not seem fair at all however if we are to complain we should also input some idea of how to implement this without having a negative effect. How to determine who is visiting and who is actually camping (stamp your hand ? lol) would be a task and there will always be those that will try and cheat the system, but geesh the place is huge and there is NO way it can be full so why not just let people who 'appear' to be walking in to visit do so without charging them and I am sure they would still make a fair amount of $. The vendors used to be in town even after the campground but it was decided they needed to be closer to where the hikers were so they moved. I am not sure which is best and I can't make an objective suggestion as I think everything and everyone should be in town ! It is a bad idea imo that anyone have to pay to have access to the gear reps besides they pay hefty fees to be there. And I agree, that if this money is to be charged then some sort of improvements should be made to the camp itself. And parking fees should be consistent, if you charge to park near tent city just to visit and leave then you should pay to park anywhere in the city. (doesn't matter to me cause Imma park at Wolf's house, lol)

After reading this thread I have given this some thought and I do see where charging the $5 fee to everyone does greatly limit the amount of 'baddies' (gotta love that term, lol) from entering the campground which is good but if the cops would watch the stuff instead of trying to watch for someone drinking or using drugs it maybe wouldn't matter ?

We didn't have this amount of police attention when it was in town and there were hardly ever any issues (shutting down the drum circle when it got really late, lol) and I am sure it would not be needed now, but I am open for any positive suggestions to make things better.

I know it is a hard job being on the Trail days committee and trying to decide how to make everything work, plus you have different people from yr. to yr. with their own views etc., and they probly don't use things like this forum to gather input when they are making these decisons but they will hopefully listen to any ideas and in return they can also perhaps provide us with things we might not know about as to their reasons for the decisions they have made ? Who knows !

Either way I probly would still not get to see all my friends as I seem to always be in Hairntville behind the grilles doing something I love which is cooking mass qtys. for the ones I love. Speaking of which, next year will be the 20th year of the Brown Gap Hikers Feast (largest trail magic in one spot ever) which during the 15 or so yrs. that I did it was where I met the majority of my 'drunken blue blazing hiker trash from hell' and many other hikertrash friends so maybe I should be there for a major trash down ??? ! This would require alumni to be present so heads up !

Back to the $5 visit fee, after not getting to see my 'Blister Bitchin' Sister' and the rest of my Billsville friends this year, perhaps $5 isn't nothing to bitch about after all? But to answer your question, yes this was noticed by many so you are not PMSing !!

Big howdy to anyone I missed, and to everyone else I did see, it was great seeing you again.

HAIRNT !

[Lone Wolf]

IMHO they should allow the gear reps to return to the Town Park where they set up before the camping hikers were kicked out of town and segregated at Tent City. If they were allowed to return to the Town Park, gear reps would gain more exposure to TD attendees other than just those camping at Tent City. Also it would end the issue of paying to see them.

the gear reps were never at the town park. they were always at the privately owned funeral home parking lot.
hikers weren't "kicked" out of town. there just wasn't enough room down by the river anymore

[Lone Wolf]

folks bitchin' about a $5 fee for 5 days access is ridiculous

[mweinstone]

the cops make traildays better and the hikers are rich and five bucks is a penny these days and miss janets pmsing and so it goes. i will support damascus cops with my life. also,.....the firewood sales by the cops and the fact that they deliver, is way cool. lets put down our silly rules and play straight. if cops were allowed to make a buck while risking their lives for years and dieing too, it would go well for us all. if cops could keep drug dealers moneys, we would benifit more than the supposed programs "supported" by reposesed druglord possesions. alot of rules are dumb. but miss janet does indeed still rock. i have allways maintained, cops and teachers are the heros and should be rich as balls. and polititions should all be volenteers. gabish?

[The Old Fhart]

Lone Wolf-"folks bitchin' about a $5 fee for 5 days access is ridiculous"

I gotta agree with LW on this one. I wasn't staying at the campground and had no problems with paying to visit several times. My ride down and back was 4 days and 1800 miles so trying to get stressed over $5 never was an issue.

What was ridiculous was how much at Trail Days was free.

[Gray Blazer]

teachers are the heros and should be rich as balls. gabish?

I knew there was a reason I loved Mattstone.

[reddog176]

When I showed up on Thursday evening, and entered tent city, I was asked if I was camping or visiting. I assumed if I was camping I'd have to pay, and if visiting I would not.
Maybe they got so overwhelmed by people that they stopped asking, and assumed everyone was just camping. (Which isn't right)

-Gadget

[MOWGLI]

$5 people!! $5.

[Mrs Baggins]

I think something is being missed here......Miss Janet said that the purpose of the fees was to make improvements to the campground and that that never happened. Apparently the fees are disappearing down a black hole? Why hasn't anyone looked into where exactly the money is going? If you already know where it's going and you don't have a problem with it, then no problem. But if the fees are still being passed off as "for improvements to the campground" then something has to change in the way they're collected/who's doing the collecting. I don't think anyone cares so much about the fees per se - it's more a matter of the whys and wheres of it. I don't know, just sayin'. Maybe when a sign is posted that says "$10 parking fee" it should say somewhere on it who is benefiting from the $10.

[saimyoji]

$5 people!! $5.

http://www.xenafan.com/movies/bod/images/johnny05.jpg

[TOW]

It really was a great time this weekend. The local Damascus volunteers had done a great job preparing for the event. The weather was really pretty good. The rain on Saturday night only slightly dampened the enthusiasm. The police did a great job with thier official duties. The stinky masses behaved themselves very well... I could and should continue about the positive things and overall it really was a great Trail Days... so why the BUT?


Several years ago there was great discussion here about a fee being charged for the first time. I felt then that it was only common sense that those camping at the "NEW" tent city should help pay for the costs associated with camping there. The city of Damascus promised improvements to the grounds and bathhouse paid for with some of the proceeds. Now several years later these things are the same as they were that first year and the fee has been doubled.

I was surprised to see that friends/family and hikers staying in the towns B&B's, at The Place or drivng into Damascus for just the day had to pay to just walk into the campground for any reason.

Many even had to pay the 5$ to come in to see the Gear reps. The vendors tried to have this stopped but I personally saw many people told that EVERY PERSON walking into the campground must pay the 5$. Many of these people walked away. Without cell phone service friends/family could not even notify those inside the campground.

If they were driving they also had to pay the 15$ parking fee. One officer told me that he was told that the bonfire was an event that people had to pay to attend? HUH???? Each night I was also told at the gate by officers that the Campground was SOLD OUT... not just the very limited parking but to walk ins as well. I had family turned away personally!

I feel that this unfairly places the financial burden of paying for Trail Days expenses directly on the people staying in the campground or visiting there... There is NO parking fee's anywhere else in town for any other events. There is no "ADDMISSION FEE" for any other public events that I am aware of... but sitting beside a fire for a couple of hours costs 5$. or coming to see your friends and family... or seeing the gear reps...

I also wonder why the officers are also the ones that are responsible for greeting campground guests and vistors and selling the addmission passes? I have never thought of this before but I have not ever seen this at any other kind of festival anywhere. I felt bad that these officers were asked repeatedly questions that they did not know the answers to. Most of them are not from Damascus or even familiar with the layout of the town. Thier directions for parking alternatives sometimes led to tickets. They were frustrated and tired of hearing the same questions.

I am just wondering if this had any one elses attention or if I am just PMS'ing?

If it's any comfort I was charged to enter as well. However I do think I will raise an issue with the chief about shutting down the camp ground because that is just plain bs....

I think something is being missed here......Miss Janet said that the purpose of the fees was to make improvements to the campground and that that never happened. Apparently the fees are disappearing down a black hole? Why hasn't anyone looked into where exactly the money is going? If you already know where it's going and you don't have a problem with it, then no problem. But if the fees are still being passed off as "for improvements to the campground" then something has to change in the way they're collected/who's doing the collecting. I don't think anyone cares so much about the fees per se - it's more a matter of the whys and wheres of it. I don't know, just sayin'. Maybe when a sign is posted that says "$10 parking fee" it should say somewhere on it who is benefiting from the $10.

Immediately after the money was collected I sit in on the biggest poker game that I have ever attended here in Damascus........

[Skyline]

the gear reps were never at the town park. they were always at the privately owned funeral home parking lot.
hikers weren't "kicked" out of town. there just wasn't enough room down by the river anymore

Guess I'll defer to your memory about where the gear reps used to set up. Now that you mention it, I do recall Mountainsmith in particular near the old creek campground. But I thought some others were in the Town Park. My bad.

Still, it would make more sense IMHO to have the gear reps at the Town Park today than out at the Tent City. More people could avail themselves of their services, and each brand would get more exposure which might equal more brand allegiance when it comes time to buy new gear.