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  1. #21

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    Out here if a trail isn't maintained it either blows out from water damage, has a billion old growth trees plopped all over, or worse..when a tree falls the root ball rips out the soil..in the trail, leaving a hole.


    The above and below show what happens after a "Pineapple Express" comes through after an early snow. Everything melts then blows out to the Puget Sound.
    This was after they did a reroute just so people could get through!


    And another example when trees go falling in windstorms:


    Much of the trail work in Washington is done by the WTA and is all done by members who volunteer their time and backs If not by them, then the Backcountry Horsemen come in to do cleanups.

    Trails like the Wonderland have work done yearly. Washouts, bridges blow out not only yearly but often a couple times in summer - due to surges from rains.
    Trail Cooking/FBC, Recipes, Gear and Beyond:
    Trail Cooking

  2. #22
    Some days, it's not worth chewing through the restraints.
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    A nice trail only needs to be 18" wide, and proper drainage helps keep it that way. Without maintenance, the folks that don't want to get their feet muddy will walk along the sides, or around that tree or rock, etc. Eventually (actually pretty quickly) you have a "braided trail", much like some rivers in Alaska, where there are multiple footpaths following the same general direction.

    The tree that everyone used to walk by on only one side is now surrounded by paths, and the root system is damaged by the compacted soil. The tree dies, the root system that held the soil in place dies, the soil washes away. Soon, instead of a narrow footpath, you have a 20 foot wide rockslide. The rocks are slippery when wet, so everyone walks along the side, using trees for support, compacting more roots, widening the slide even more. It gets pretty ugly. And that loose soil - it winds up choking that nice trout stream.

    That's only the tip of the iceberg.
    That's why we maintain trails.

    Plus, the chicks DO dig it.

    And thanks for walking in the middle of the trail - that's the best thing.

  3. #23

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    When I first started doing trail maintenance on my section some 20 yrs ago, it had not had hardly any regular maintaining work done on it for about 14 years due to it being the longest driving distance away from most of the CMC trail workers at that time and due to its length, steepness, and inaccessiblity so needlesstosay it was pretty rough hiking, mega blowdowns to crawl across and make your way around on really steep sidehill, was full of woody growth, stinging nettles over waist high, huge briars, and very much eroded with no waterbars and lots of roots to trip over.

    After a few years of hard work by the Rat Patrol crew and two new relos put in by the Konnarock crews with much help from us and the CMC, along with above standard work such as selective cutting leaving ferns to grow to choke out weeds, handsnipping roots and woody growth and keeping the weeds cut on a regular basis, and installing many waterbars and check dams, silt bars, steps and such, it is now a very pleasant but still wildernessy section to hike. I can show you the old AT that has not gotten any work done on it for a few yrs that we use for short cuts and such that is nearly completely gone as nature reclaims what was hers very quickly.

    I too enjoy being outdoors and working on the trail for physical excercise and to meet the hikers as they come through and almost all are VERY appreciative of the work we do and go out of their way to thank us as they have obviously hiked somewhere before that had low maintenance and appreciate a nice clean trail.

    Next time you sit on a privy that does not have poo all the way to the rim,,,,,thank a maintainer (yes one of the dirty jobs we do)

    Don't get me wrong, I agree that we do tend to make it too easy and tend to 'coddle' the hikers but the big picture shows that trail work is needed and the trail would turn to crapp quickly without it. If you want that rough of a trail, I suggest you find a different one and not the AT where there are govt. (ATC) standards on exactly how it is to be maintained.

    I was out cutting annual growth one year that was very high (back when we had more rainfall) and some guy came along and fussed at us for making a mess on the trail as he was upset he had to walk over the fresh cut weeds ! That wasn't you was it ? lol I told him just wait, that further up the trail where the stinging nettles were nearly head high and him hiking in shorts with no gaiters, that he would appreciate the work we were doing, but I don't think he got it.

    I have seen the trail from Carvers Gap to Grassy ridge become a gully in no time from the massive foot traffic it gets many times as the trail has to be moved around over the years and I really appreciate the work that is being done there now to prevent this. Hats off to those that have made that possible. It is looking very nice.

    I have worked with several legends in the trail work world, have about 10 Konnarock yearly t shirts and have learned many skills in regards to trail work as it requires different methods for each section and areas and I enjoy being in the woods and seeing the accomplishments and YES CHICKS DIG IT !!!!!!

    If you don't like our well maintained trails, quit yer bitchin' and go hike elsewhere !

    HAIRNT !

  4. #24
    Registered User Tennessee Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAT View Post
    When I first started doing trail maintenance on my section some 20 yrs ago, it had not had hardly any regular maintaining work done on it for about 14 years due to it being the longest driving distance away from most of the CMC trail workers at that time and due to its length, steepness, and inaccessiblity so needlesstosay it was pretty rough hiking, mega blowdowns to crawl across and make your way around on really steep sidehill, was full of woody growth, stinging nettles over waist high, huge briars, and very much eroded with no waterbars and lots of roots to trip over.

    After a few years of hard work by the Rat Patrol crew and two new relos put in by the Konnarock crews with much help from us and the CMC, along with above standard work such as selective cutting leaving ferns to grow to choke out weeds, handsnipping roots and woody growth and keeping the weeds cut on a regular basis, and installing many waterbars and check dams, silt bars, steps and such, it is now a very pleasant but still wildernessy section to hike. I can show you the old AT that has not gotten any work done on it for a few yrs that we use for short cuts and such that is nearly completely gone as nature reclaims what was hers very quickly.

    I too enjoy being outdoors and working on the trail for physical excercise and to meet the hikers as they come through and almost all are VERY appreciative of the work we do and go out of their way to thank us as they have obviously hiked somewhere before that had low maintenance and appreciate a nice clean trail.

    Next time you sit on a privy that does not have poo all the way to the rim,,,,,thank a maintainer (yes one of the dirty jobs we do)

    Don't get me wrong, I agree that we do tend to make it too easy and tend to 'coddle' the hikers but the big picture shows that trail work is needed and the trail would turn to crapp quickly without it. If you want that rough of a trail, I suggest you find a different one and not the AT where there are govt. (ATC) standards on exactly how it is to be maintained.

    I was out cutting annual growth one year that was very high (back when we had more rainfall) and some guy came along and fussed at us for making a mess on the trail as he was upset he had to walk over the fresh cut weeds ! That wasn't you was it ? lol I told him just wait, that further up the trail where the stinging nettles were nearly head high and him hiking in shorts with no gaiters, that he would appreciate the work we were doing, but I don't think he got it.

    I have seen the trail from Carvers Gap to Grassy ridge become a gully in no time from the massive foot traffic it gets many times as the trail has to be moved around over the years and I really appreciate the work that is being done there now to prevent this. Hats off to those that have made that possible. It is looking very nice.

    I have worked with several legends in the trail work world, have about 10 Konnarock yearly t shirts and have learned many skills in regards to trail work as it requires different methods for each section and areas and I enjoy being in the woods and seeing the accomplishments and YES CHICKS DIG IT !!!!!!

    If you don't like our well maintained trails, quit yer bitchin' and go hike elsewhere !

    HAIRNT !
    Let me guess you had the High Rocks/Little Bald areas coming off of Big Bald, and worked on the old stateline route to around Spivey Gap. Hats off to ya.
    ''Tennessee Viking'
    Mountains to Sea Trail Hiker & Maintainer
    Former TEHCC (AT) Maintainer

  5. #25
    Moo-terrific CowHead's Avatar
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    I say hats off to trail maintainers, they need or time, money and on occasion elbow grease
    Would you be offended if I told you to
    TAKE A HIKE!
    CowHead


    "If at first you don't succeed......Skydiving is not for you" Zen Isms

    I once was lost, then I hike the trail

  6. #26
    Registered User Slosteppin's Avatar
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    I put in lots of time maintaining and building the North Country Trail in Michigan.
    There are 2 reasons for trail maintenance; the most recognized is to make it easier for hikers, the real and most necessary reason is to protect the environment.

    A well designed, properly laid out and properly constructed trail will require much less maintenance than many older trails.

    Slosteppin

  7. #27
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    Hi Sloesteppin, I can say from experience that you do a fantastic job on the NCT.

    Thank you all maintainers for your hard work on the trails.

    Why do people think that all the trails are for "serious" hikers????? What's wrong with dayhikers? Sectioners? Most AT users are NOT thru's.

    Oh, and I know I'll get flamed, but THANK GOD FOR ALL THE SHELTERS!!!!!!!!!
    They have saved my hike and sanity.

  8. #28
    Nalgene Ninja flemdawg1's Avatar
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    2 weeks ago I hiked in the Sipsey Wilderness. I tried to follow an "official" FS trail that hadn't seen much maintenance in a decade. The 4 mile trail disappeared after a 1/4 mile and I was left bushwacking through briars, poison ivy and holly bushes. I definately learned to appreciate the work the maintainers do.

  9. #29
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    Another reason to keep trails maintained (and not eroding), is to keep all that soil out of the streambeds where it clogs the system and leads to more negative effects downstream. Just like when you have a child, you have a responsibility to see that child is nutured and taken care of, if you build and use a trail, you "own" the responsibility to keep it from eroding.

  10. #30
    Registered User weary's Avatar
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    I took over the maintenance of three miles of the trail system on Whitecap 35 years or so ago after hiking with my two boys, ages 10 and 11, and finding it so overgrown the trail was almost impossible to find. A previous maintainer had regularly removed the blowdowns but had neglected cutting back the brush, which then had almost totally obscured the footpath.

    I had called the overseer of that section to complain. He responded, "why don't you take over that section." I did. It took me several years to reopen the sections to reasonable standards. Branches from fir trees had spread across the trail. I couldn't even see where the stems began. And each had to be cut back to the trunk. I finally finished the job on a snowy Thanksgiving weekend.

    Most of the high elevation trails in Maine would become equally impassable if left without maintenance. Maine has a wet climate and the precipitation is usually spread evenly among the 12 months, ideal condtions for growing trees. (I hope this equal spread makes an exception this year. June had nearly 9 inches of rain. Spread out evenly over a year would make 108 inches for the year -- three times our normal rainfall.)

    Weary

  11. #31
    Registered User Ladytrekker's Avatar
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    I work on the Florida Trail and our trail maintenance is minimal to keep the growth intact. What we do is once a year during the fall we mow the footpath for large weeds so that the path is noticeable enough to stay on it. We lop or trim the overhanging limbs in the path again to make the trail noticeable and clear of harm. We then paint and refresh the orange blazes. Our main concern is to keep people that want to walk the trail on the path so that they do not get lost.

  12. #32
    Registered User Ladytrekker's Avatar
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    To add to this conversation last year we had over 60,000 vounteer man hours of maintenance on the Florida Trail. We also build small wood bridges, platforms if needed to cross some of the areas and shelters.

  13. #33

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    Yep, thanks Tennessee Viking

  14. #34

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    I am very thankful for the trail maintainers. There is a local trail near my house that is hardly maintained. I live in Delaware. I have hiked on it in the fall/winter and it was nice. I hiked on it last week after we had a month of strait rain and the nice dirt trail I hiked on in the fall/winter was now knee high weeds and I was covered in ticks when my hike was over. After that hike I gained a greater appriceation (spelling) for trail maintainers. Last year my father I got lymes disease after backpacking a lesser know trail in NJ.

  15. #35

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    The original question is a perfect example of why humans are so completely #@&% up. So many think everything wonderful just happens. True, nature provides beautiful things on its own, however someone has to protect it from such humans or it's gone forever.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by flemdawg1 View Post
    ... The 4 mile trail disappeared after a 1/4 mile and I was left bushwacking through briars, poison ivy and holly bushes. I definitely learned to appreciate the work the maintainers do.
    Apparently some think that makes you a wimp.

    But you know, I think dmax may be onto something. I mean, if it'd work for trails, why not for sidewalks, roads, airports, harbors, and the like?! Real men wouldn't mind a few potholes here and there, a few bridges washed out, a few rough landings, nor running aground now and again. Besides, it's not as if there are any off-trail wilderness opportunities for hiking through briars, poison ivy, and holly bushes if that's what they really do prefer.

    Yeah, that's quite an astounding idea!

    RainMan

    .
    [I]ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: ... Defile not therefore the land which ye shall inhabit....[/I]. Numbers 35

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  17. #37
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    As a former maintainer and someone who finds it almost impossible to walk by, over, or around small trees, big limbs, rocks or trash whenever I'm on a trail- I think of it as common sense. As our poster pointed out- common might be the wrong word.

    But I was wondering why people maintain their health, brush their teeth, etc. And whats w/ cleaning your clothes, house, etc. And could someone tell me WHY folks change the oil in their cars?!? Seems like such a waste of time and effort. I used to wonder why people wiped their rear ends but then I discovered...... it was just an excuse ......to litter!

  18. #38

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    No, the trails would not survive everywhere if there was no maintenance on them. In a few(2-3 yrs.) years parts of the trail would become so overgrown or eroded there would not be a noticeable trail. If you read Earl Schaffers accounts of his first thru-hike he says the woods had reclaimed parts of the AT after only a few years of neglect when popularity of the AT waned. Doing trail maintenance anywhere/somewhere is one of the best ways to support hiking!

  19. #39

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    I am also very thankful for all the trail maintainers, but I think the best way to say "thank you" is to get out there and do some maintenance yourself. There never seems to be enough trail maintainers, but a whole lot of hikers who make empty promises of doing maintenance someday/somewhere/sometime. Often that day never arrives. Doing trail maintenance will help you appreciate all the hard work, largely volunteers, accomplish! Do trail work and never again will you leisurely pass by all those water bars, stone and wooden steps, bridges, and cleared trails.

  20. #40
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    I just enjoy fixing the trail, its good/fun work. Just like cleaning trash from the local park, makes the place look nice and hey - it beats sitting on your ass watching tv.

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