When is it too light? Where do you draw the line?

[Wise Old Owl]

Those barstards!!!!! I hope you turned them in!!!

I actually hike in the winter when its easy to catch up to the shivering bastards! Then I take name's to embarrass them here on this forum... Just like that show "To catch a UL Hiker!" with Mike Handsome....

Punked....

[Jim Adams]

I don't always carry a tent but I prefer it over a tarp for many reasons. Where I can put a tent that I can't a tarp is huge! Ease of set up, less space restrictions are also pluses for the tent. Views are easier/ better from my tent! Girls prefer tents!


As for comfort of hiking over comfort of camping- not so fast. A well rested Nean is MUCH more comfortable hiking than grouchy, sleep deprived, gnawed on UL Nean who has been up all night warding off skeeters, snakes, spiders, ticks, scorpions, ants, flies, and water all night.
I'll most likely carry the extra 2 pounds, quite easily I might add. Strong mind, strong body. Most folks are not overloaded w/ the basics- its all the other stuff they carry.

Nean,
Good post...lots of wisdom there!

geek

[Wolf - 23000]

My current pack weight for the AT (weekend or thru) is 26lbs. with 4 days food, water and a liter of whiskey.


1990, my external frame pack was 2lb. 12oz., 20* bag was 2lb. 14oz., 16'x12' coated nylon tarp was 2lb. ...lightweight gear was around without looking hard for it BUT (lol) my limited backpacking experience had me on top of Springer at 72lbs. I learned a little during that thru and got my weight down to 41lbs. by northern Va.

geek

Is that including your cat's weight in your pack?

Wolf

[JohnnyB]

Well to help the thread I am happy at 20 lbs without water or food and add a little from there. Others are going sub 10 and cutting comfort in a big way.

You can easily go sub 10 base weight without cutting any comfort or safety at all.

I'm a little surprised at the attitude on this forum regarding UL hikers and safety. If I had to guess, more rescues are required for those carrying excessively heavy loads than those going UL. (Even when adjusted proportionally.)

[The Weasel]

The unmentioned issue is, "Comfort for when." Some people want comfort for when they are in camp, and for them, camp (and meals) are much of the delight in backpacking. When that is the case, a 10# pack is a mistake. Other people want comfort for walking, to cover as much territory (or more difficult territory) as possible, with nights merely being a necessary evil between the delights of seeing the trail and its beauty. For them, lighter means more comfort, less fatigue, more miles. Neither way is intrinsically good (or better); it depends on what your purpose is. I am usually an ULer, but if my wife and I are going to mainly base camp and day hike in an area, I bring a lot more, to go a shorter distance.

Thruhikers have a particular orientation: 2100 miles before the season ends. So they tend to end up as ULers regardless of how they start. Others who are doing sections can afford to carry more. And yes, some thrus carry a lot, and some sectioners carry little. But the fact remains: Your purpose controls what you carry. Or it should.

TW

[JohnnyB]

With a 10 pound base it's still fairly very easy to have a warm sleeping bag, full size mattress, hot food, dry spare clothes, and a portable shelter with bug protection.

I guess if comfort is something beyond that then maybe you need more weight.

[Wolf - 23000]

You can easily go sub 10 base weight without cutting any comfort or safety at all.

I'm a little surprised at the attitude on this forum regarding UL hikers and safety. If I had to guess, more rescues are required for those carrying excessively heavy loads than those going UL. (Even when adjusted proportionally.)

JohnnyB,

I don't think anyone is really against going UL or saying you can't travel under 10 pounds safely. I do it myself with 1 - 4 pounds all the time. What some of us are saying is there are too many hikers that need to rely on other for gear/food that they should have been carrying. Some will even put their safety in question to save a few onces.

I'm sure everyone will agree with the fact a person pack weight really is not an accurate reflection on how prepare or unprepared that hiker is. A hiker can be carrying a 50 backpack but less prepare for bad weight when compare with a hiker carrying 5 pounds. On the flip side, how many hikers have you run into that didn’t have any kind of shelter, or are starving because they didn’t bring enough food, or are freezing when it gets cold out. In 2006 while hiking southbound through NC/Tenn/GA I was running into a lot of hikers all traveling with a lot more gear than myself but many were freezing at night or some during the day.

Wolf

[JohnnyB]

I'm sure everyone will agree with the fact a person pack weight really is not an accurate reflection on how prepare or unprepared that hiker is. A hiker can be carrying a 50 backpack but less prepare for bad weight when compare with a hiker carrying 5 pounds.

Ok, yeah I agree with that totally.

On the flip side, how many hikers have you run into that didn’t have any kind of shelter, or are starving because they didn’t bring enough food, or are freezing when it gets cold out. In 2006 while hiking southbound through NC/Tenn/GA I was running into a lot of hikers all traveling with a lot more gear than myself but many were freezing at night or some during the day.

Wolf

Well, I mostly hike up in the Northeast and I almost never see anybody even attempting UL, and I haven't come across anybody that didn't have enough food or shelter. I more often run across people who are a safety hazard because they carry far too much.

Just a couple of weeks ago I came across a section hiker near the Baldpates who was carrying in excess of 65 to 70 pounds. He actually asked me and a friend to help carry his stuff, and got pissed off at us that we wouldn't. (He was uninjured.) He told us he could have easily got hurt carrying that much weight so we should have helped him lolz...!

But again I agree with you. Anybody that has to rely on others except in cases of extremely bad luck/misfortune has gone too light. Heading out expecting to mooch of others is bad form.

[Wolf - 23000]

[/font][/color]


Well, I mostly hike up in the Northeast and I almost never see anybody even attempting UL, and I haven't come across anybody that didn't have enough food or shelter. I more often run across people who are a safety hazard because they carry far too much.

Just a couple of weeks ago I came across a section hiker near the Baldpates who was carrying in excess of 65 to 70 pounds. He actually asked me and a friend to help carry his stuff, and got pissed off at us that we wouldn't. (He was uninjured.) He told us he could have easily got hurt carrying that much weight so we should have helped him lolz...!

JohnB,
There are all types of people who hike the trail. The section hiker you ran into near Baldpates, wanted you to be basically his mother. He packed up a lot of crap then expected you and your friend to carry it for him. I’ve run into both types, hikers who carry too much they risk their safety and other who carry to little without the knowledge who also risk their safety.
So what is the solution? There is none other than to warn hikers not to go UL without the experience to go with it. There is to much push to travel super UL that anyone can do it. What most hikers don’t think about is what happens when things don’t always go as plan. I've been hit with many bad storms over the years as I'm sure you have too. What makes things worst is when hikers who only go out in “right” weather come out with all this great information on UL Backpacking in books, videos, websites.
Back in 1993, there was a hiker who froze to death on the PCT trying to save weight – the same year Ray Jardine came out with his book The PCT Handbook. He had the equipment I’m sure that could have saved his life but didn’t have the experience to go with it. I ran into a lot of Jardine’s fans. All were carrying at least 2 or 3 times more weight than me. Jardine taught them how to make their equipment but what he didn’t teach them is how to truly use it. Hiking through the Sierras in CA, I’ve helped out more than a few hikers that were over their head.
That is why you may think there is a “backlash” against UL hiking. I personal neither am for or against UL hiking. Only hiking safe. lol
Just my $.02
Wolf

[firefly]

Ha... I started hiking in the 70's.. ..hiked in tennis shoes...used a poncho for raingear..slept on a thin foam pad under a sheet of plastic...cooked over a fire using one of those metal army cups with a spoon.. ate lots of beenie weenie..poptarts.. and drank tang... then I evolved with the gear.. had the Sierra Designs Meteor Light.. original thermarest.. complete cookset.. small coleman stove.. full rain suit... had to buy a Dana Terraplane to haul all that heavy stuff in and hiked in boots... I carried half my body weight but I loved all of that stuff and enjoyed using it. I don't remember anybody caring about what it weighed we were all just so excited about about all the new stuff that was coming out. Now I back to tennis shoes and my mug and spoon again but I am still in the woods

[Phreak]

11-12 pound base weight seems to be my limit.

[firefly]

And yes my Dana Terraplane weighed over 7 lbs empty.. but it will always be my favorite peice of gear that I have ever owned.

[Scooby99]

Spent some time doing more research and came up with a new "fantasy" gear list for summer hiking, there are a few odds and ends missing but base weight under 5lbs with shelter, stove, and even a down jacket.

pack 3.5 oz. Zpacks
pad 4 prolite torso length
liner 1 backpacking light
sleeping bag 11 oz bozeman mountain works
groundcloth 1.5 gossamer gear
raincover 1 zpacks
poncho/shelter 4 oz mountain laurel design
shorts+shirt 6 oz golite
down jacket 7 oz montbell
pot 2
esbit stove 0.5 backpacking light
4 esbit tabs 2 oz
cozy/spoon/fire 3
cup 1
bottle/flask 2.6 Playpus 1 liter(2)
24 H20 tablets 0.7 auqamira tablets
light 0.5 photon LEDs
1st aid 4
hygiene 4
tp/wetwipes 3
windbreaker top 2.6 montbell
windbreaker bottom 2.4 montbell

total oz. 67.3
total lbs. 4.21

[Scooby99]

sorry, the formatting got as screwy. Where's the edit button?, lol

[skinewmexico]

UL is just a different skill set. Once you master the skills, it's easy to be safe and light.

[DawnTreader]

Like many of the above posters, I agree that each individual has their own limits, and experience is needed to decide where those limits are. For me, I need a shelter with bug protection. I am super skinny so, even in the summer I need lots of down, especially in the northeast, where I mainly hike. I have found that the temperature rating on all of the bags and quilts I use do not translate into exact field comfort. For instance.. On my shakedown hikes, the 50 degree sub 1 pound quilt that I thought I would be sufficient for summer trips, was uncomfortable for me at 60 degrees. It is important to use your UL gear before you jump into a long distnace trip. Depending on what time you stop hiking in the day, how far you hike every day, and what your expectations are when you get to a camp spot, all depend on how much comfort you might want to carry..
Ul backpackers in general, with many exceptions, like the challange of gram counting and collecting or making extremely light gear. Most of which is very fragile and needs to be cared for specially or it will not last very long at all.
You can most deffenitly be safe and ultralight, but I prefer to be safe, comfortable and just plain light...

[River Runner]

sorry, the formatting got as screwy. Where's the edit button?, lol

You get the edit button when you make a donation to help keep the site running.

[Madmax]

There is nothing like a reliable and comfortable shelter, so I draw the line by not using too flimsy shelters like tarptents, unless camping in very, very hot and very, very dry areas.

[Jim Adams]

Obviously when you have to stay overnight on Mt.Washington. Seems it doesn't matter how much gear you have or your abilities to use it successfully, you are simply neglegent just for being there! Just ask SAR!

geek

[Madmax]

I don't always carry a tent but I prefer it over a tarp for many reasons. Where I can put a tent that I can't a tarp is huge! Ease of set up, less space restrictions are also pluses for the tent. Views are easier/ better from my tent! Girls prefer tents!


As for comfort of hiking over comfort of camping- not so fast. A well rested Nean is MUCH more comfortable hiking than grouchy, sleep deprived, gnawed on UL Nean who has been up all night warding off skeeters, snakes, spiders, ticks, scorpions, ants, flies, and water all night.
I'll most likely carry the extra 2 pounds, quite easily I might add. Strong mind, strong body. Most folks are not overloaded w/ the basics- its all the other stuff they carry.

Yes, all the other stuff they carry