Alright, just one more time…

[Pedaling Fool]

So you are saying you don't pack out any trash and that we should compost all our trash in the woods over the landfill?

No. What I'm saying is that everything I do with respect to the trash I create is with the goal of reducing the total amount of plastic type trash. I reuse plastics, therefore I reduce my consumption of them.

I pack out my trash, but most of my trash is in the form of energy bar/oatmeal wrappers and the such. I don't eat "packaged" food for diner, so that cuts down significantly on packaged trash. I dehydrate my own vegetable/jerky and mix it with rice bought in bulk. My trash bag is much smaller than the typical hiker.

[The Weasel]

The debate is not just about TP Nean it's about the rest of it too....

I subscribe to the 6+ inch deep hole, burn the TP and cover method. You will never see TP blooming from one of my catholes.

Beakerman:

About your cathole: A lot of people think that the hole needs to be 6" deep, then they "fill" it. That usually means that there's little more than an inch or two of soil above the waste and paper, and sometimes not that. The result is that many such holes end up being dug up, or or even having the minimal soil washed away in a heavy rain.

If you're digging a cathole so there is at least 2-4" of covering soil, that's a minimum, and workable, which is why 8" is the usual recommendation when possible. But even then, it doesn't solve the problem of leachate from your waste or the paper. But if you don't use any prescription drugs, don't eat seeds of plants not growing in that area, and are certain you don't carry viruses or bacteria for diseases, and you're using TP that is not only biodegradable but has no chlorine or other residues that are harmful to the environment, well, great.

Here's what we teach Scouts; by the way, note that Scouts learn to urinate on rocks, not the ground, whenever possible. For good reason.

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/...c_dispose.aspx

TW
>--WWW-->

[TD55]

Ever heard of pack it in / pack it out? Ever wonder what that means?

No, we are all undeducated stupids and never heard of that or understand what it means.

[Nean]

The debate is not just about TP Nean it's about the rest of it too....

I subscribe to the 6+ inch deep hole, burn the TP and cover method. You will never see TP blooming from one of my catholes.

Well, I'm not debating poop in the woods. I feel entitled to poop in the woods if I mix and bury it good. I'm too lazy to pack it out. TW has me -at least thinking about poop.

You seem a very considerate person and I'm sure you do things right. Not really addressing you though beakerman!

If one is already packing out most of ones trash -and I'm not debating what you carry said trash in- why not carry it all out or all that you don't burn- out. I think I've answered that!

TW- why can't I throw away TP w/ my other trash. Our cat poop goes in the trash, sometimes doggie poo makes it in w/ the clippings that go to the dump here in the 'burbs where I visit. Better to flush it I reckon, but why is it bad?

[MOWGLI]

No, we are all undeducated stupids....

Evidently. (just kidding)

[Nean]

Holy crap, who would have thought that such a crappy thread would have have such staying power. It's as refreshing as a coffee colonic.

Have you ever tried to pack out a coffee colonic!?

[Nean]

No, we are all undeducated stupids and never heard of that or understand what it means.

You're preaching to the choir!



Can I get a - Amen!


I ain't that edjumakated either-- so don't feel bad!

[Nean]

Some of the smartest people don't have a lick of common sense.

[TD55]

AMEN

[Wilson]

Some of the smartest people don't have a lick of common sense.

Damn straight.

[TD55]

Some of the smartest people don't have a lick of common sense.

Some real dumb people don't have any common sense either. Lucky for many of them, they are born to rich familys and get jobs in politics.

[MOWGLI]

Some of the smartest people don't have a lick of common sense.

A classic!

[Alligator]

I know the subject is **** but lets keep the politics out of this thread.

[Nean]

I know the subject is **** but lets keep the politics out of this thread.

Sorry my man, just trying to be funny. I really don't care for politics to tell the truth- had my fill.

[Wilson]

I know the subject is **** but lets keep the politics out of this thread.

Just do it like post #171? And thats ok?

[Nean]

A classic!

I saw this same guy burying his trash and baiting bears!!

[TD55]

Sorry my man, just trying to be funny. I really don't care for politics to tell the truth- had my fill.

I sorry too and also was trying to be funnyDidn't think makin' joke about politicains in general was actually talking politics. I quess all the poo talk activated my sense of poomer.

[Nearly Normal]

A TP bag, like a solid waste bag or, for that matter a food bag, should be hung/flown, since (like the food that many scavengers like coons and possums seek) it draws them. For that matter, that's one of the problems with cat holes; scavengers will dig them up, if not sufficiently deep.

As noted, if you're carrying a ziploc for your food, when it's used you still have that ziploc for trash and TP. And landfills nationally have far greater protections than before. As for where things go, the TP should NOT - repeat NOT - be put in trash bins, nor should solid human waste. It should be flushed at the nearest toilet (if it's more than a little bit, ask permission; i've never been turned down) or deposited in solid waste depositories such as most campgrounds have. Sewage treatment plants - which MUST conform to the Clean Water Act will deal with it properly. Where that's not the case, septic systems are acceptable by necessity, since the solids end up, over time, either encased (and a new tank needed) or pumped out.

Nean, you've got the point down pat. I admire that. Thanks.

TW

I'll pass on collecting and storing and hanging poop or used TP.
I ain't gonna sleep with it neither.

[The Weasel]

Do you realize that most sewer treatment plants do not treat for chemical polutants other than an oil/water separator? Unless they changed it durnginthe Bush years; there is no federal regulation regarding the pharma. load of waste water effluent. The Clean Water Act deals with BOD (biological oxygen demand), TDS (total dissolved solids), TSS (total suspended solids) and a hand full of pesticides/herbicides along with some UV treatment to kill of the bugs but no regulations regarding medications in the stream.

yes, I'm aware of that. But the Clean Water Act also deals with proper disposal of sludge, which has the highest concentration of dangerous effluents; few sewage plants discharge into waterways now (at least routinely, as they used to), while septic tanks (when they become defective) and latrines/privies/catholes always discharge into the ground, risking groundwater contamination.

As for the staying power of this thread, think of it this way: If there are 1500 thrus starting at Springer next year, that means about one and a half tons of human waste left in the first 10 miles of the trail. If there were a topic here about, "Is it cool to throw 3000 lbs of trash along the trail north of Springer?" it would garner a few thousand posts. And similar amounts, in decreasing levels, occur as you go north. "But I will bury my Noodles packages and tuna cans away from the trail!" would get a few hundred derisive hoots, as would "It's OK for us to throw leftover food in the fire ring."

Now if it's disgusting to litter, and bad for the trail to do those things, why is it somehow more acceptable to bury thousands of pounds of feces along the Appalachian Trail, a massively heavily used trail, every year? Why is it bad to throw dozens of food cans in dumps near shelters - as still happens in many other trails - but OK to leave really disgusting toilet paper all-to-often displayed in "minefields" rather than say, "No. I won't do risk that mine will be visible a few days later when I'm gone."

Cans will degrade, over the decades, as will paper in months or years, and food in weeks or months or, sometimes, as long as years. But we all seem to agree: Pack those out. If you're too squeamish to even carry out toilet paper, perhaps you have the wrong activity in backpacking. Toilet paper and feces are every bit as objectionable as trash paper and leftover food waste, and, to me at least, more so.

If you're a responsible hiker, you minimize or eliminate to the greatest extent possible your touch to the land you pass by. If you're not responsible, and think - as does John Gault - that it's just a lot of "LNT crap" to try to be that way, well, I hope someday you think, and realize, that we need to change. All of us. We do.

TW

[Pedaling Fool]

...If there are 1500 thrus starting at Springer next year, that means about one and a half tons of human waste left in the first 10 miles of the trail. ......
TW

That is a lot of crap in the privies, yet the greatest risk to one's health is hypothermia

Why are you the most vocal proponent of packing out crap? Why doesn't the ATC or any other club promote this if it's such a problem. (Again, just for you TW, I know it's a health issue, but to pack it out is an excessive measure). The way you beat the drum about this issue, one would think there was some sort of epidemic on the AT.