Mileage Confusion ?

[Rowdy Yates]

Help me, I'm confused. The The AT Data Book lists the mileage from Dennis Cove Road to Pond Flats Campsite as 4.8 miles. The Companion shows Dennis Cove Road as 412.6 and Pond Flats Campsite as 418.3, when the math is applied that equals 5.7 miles. Which is it 4.8 miles or 5.7 miles? That's 0.9 miles difference. Cabin Fever or TV can you help?

[Plodderman]

We ran into the same problem on other parts of the trail with different Data books showing different amounts and the signs giving a third amount. Not off by to far I guess it just depends on who marks it off.

[stranger]

The Data Book isn't wrong, trust me, I know the editor and he does not make mistakes, I've never known the Data Book to be wrong, only thru-hiker guides

[Lone Wolf]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3] Help me, I'm confused. The The AT Data Book lists the mileage from Dennis Cove Road to Pond Flats Campsite as 4.8 miles.

no. the Data Book lists it as 5.7 miles and the Companion also as 5.7. read them again. i'm looking at the 2008 versions

[Rowdy Yates]

no. the Data Book lists it as 5.7 miles and the Companion also as 5.7. read them again. i'm looking at the 2008 versions

Sorry LW, I don't have the 2008 Version. Think mine is probably an '89 version. Thanks for the heads up.

[mudhead]

Dang! I thought some of my paper was out of date!

Time to upgrade. Go spend some $, help the economy.

[Ox97GaMe]

Always look at the most recent copy of either the data book or companion. Both are kept up to date annually, based on information provided from hikers and the trail maintenance clubs. Each year, sections of the trail are moved for various reasons (remove road walkss, reduce erotion, add better vista points, etc). After each of those jobs are completed, a member of the club rolls a wheel guage to get the distance of the new trail built and the distance of the old trail that was replaced. The overall distance of a 'segment' as reported in the data book is then updated.

Sometimes it takes a while to get the new signs updated. In fact, if there are plans for several relocation projects over a number of years, they may not change signage until all are completed. No point carving new signs every couple months.

[ShelterLeopard]

Sorry LW, I don't have the 2008 Version. Think mine is probably an '89 version. Thanks for the heads up.

Definitely get an updated version to check it out (some local libraries have trail guides, believe it or not- but I don't know if it's up to date). Definitely worth it- I did what I thought was 15 miles into Lehigh Gap- it was 20.

[Ox97GaMe]

In the case of Dennis Cove Rd to Pond Flats, the old trail used to go past the shelter. you had to take a side trail down to see the falls. Now, the trail goes down near the falls and you have to take a side trail to get to the shelter. The side trail to the shelter is now the 'high water' route. I dont remember exactly what year the relo was put in to include the falls and walk along the river, but it has been within the past 10 years.

The trail also used to follow the river all the way to 321. Sometime in the mid-late 90s (I think), they rerouted it up over Pond Mountain so that it came into the Wataga Lake recreation area instead of having a half mile road walk down the busy 321 highway.

If you have an older data book, you are also going to find discrepancies in distance the entire route from Erwin to Damascus. TEHCC has been doing a LOT of work rerouting the trial the past several years. There are new relos at Unaka Mtn, Indian Gap, Iron Mtn, Carver Gap, Doll Flats, Elk River, Wataga Lake, and Hwy 91. Those are just the ones that I am aware of. Im sure there are probably many others that I havent heard about as well.

[beakerman]

sort of of topic but how are they actualy measuring the milages now? Are they using GPS (good luck with the green tunnel), wheel measurements or pedometer?

[Tennessee Viking]

If I remember what my editor does. Mileages are still done by wheel to get an accurate footcount. GPS is used as a back up.

I believe its 5.7. Its 2 or so miles to the Hampton Blue Blaze, then another 3 or so miles up to Pond Flats.

If its an 89 book. Look into getting a new one. Major re-routes and new shelter since then. Elk River to WhiteRocks, Pond Mountain (even the northside Pond Mtn re-route was re-routed), Roan & Humps, Unaka. Mountaineer Falls Shelter.

The new TN/NC AT guide is out and is a little more accurate now after some old sections were re-rolled.

[Deadeye]

No matter how they do the measurement, some miles are a whole lot longer than others.

[cowboy nichols]

No matter how they do the measurement, some miles are a whole lot longer than others.

Amen and they get longer every year you add.

[Doctari]

Wait till you actually get out there. The sign says (for example): "Heart attack ridge 10 miles." you get to the ridge & the sign says "Back to where you started 11.3 miles" BUT the Companion says "Where you started to Heart attack ridge 10.5 miles"
And the thu hikers handbook says "Where you started to Heart attack ridge 10.9 miles"
The map says it's 10.2 miles.

And don't get me started about the Profiles on the maps.

So, just go with the flow, too soon your hike will be over & you will say: where did the miles go?

[Ox97GaMe]

It is true that one mile is not equal to another mile. Some folks hate uphills, some hate downhills. The trail is mostly up or down with a few brief sections of flat in between.

The GATC still uses a wheel for most of its measurements. Ive seen the SMHC use both GPS and the wheel, but have not been a maintainer for them long enough to know their entire process for posting changes. While on HardCore trips with Bob Peoples for TEHCC, I have seen them using the wheel to get final relo distances.

I also know that DelDoc walked the entire trail in the early 2000s with a GPS unit. This data is being used to create updated ATC topo maps and profiles. Not sure if they are available yet or not. Hopefully, the new maps will eliminate some of the issues hikers have with the older maps.

I once heard that the elevations for the profile maps were done at 200-300 yard increments. Not sure if that is true or not. But, it sure would explain some of the descrepancies with profile vs. actual terrain. There are places where entire PUDs would fall within a 300 yard distance.

We must also take into consideration that some 'leveling' or 'smoothing' of the profile map needs to occur in order to have a map that is readable. If they included each and every 50 or 100 ft PUD, the line might be hard to see. Imagine if the profile map accounted for ups and downs to the degree of 1/25 of an inch. How squiggly would that line be in some parts of the trail? That is what would be needed to somewhat accurately depict elevation change to within a distance of 200 ft of trail. And even then, there are likely to be people that complain about unmapped PUDS or how terrible the profiles are.

I remember laughing when I saw the profile map for the last NOBO section, which included Katadin. The profile line was almost flat from Monson to Katadin Stream campground, then shot almost up the entire right side of the page in order to depict the climb up Mt Katadin. Basically, the profile map made it appear that the entire 100 mile wilderness was flat. In reality, the profile scale used to depict the 4000+ climb up Katadin made any 200-400 ft climbs on the map appear to be minor bumps or in some cases non existent.