New Bush Law allows logging of Chattahoochee

[Rain Man]

I'm with you on this one. When CEO's were making 440 times what their average employees were (the number is much higher now), I can't shed too many tears over the high taxes they're dishing over.

Yes, and even the "high taxes" the rich allegedly have to pay is a myth, a fiction, a bed-time story to scare those who enjoy being scared. The rich pay less in tax than the poor, any day.

Besides which, keep in mind that the marginal tax rate used to be over 90 percent, with even FEWER loopholes than today. The uber rich have low taxes today, for sure.

The whole reason the tax code is complex rather than simple is because of special interest rules the rich bribed politicians to pass. Not only do the rich have low effective tax rates, much of their income is never called income to begin with. Why people cry for them is beyond me, but those shedding tears for the uber rich need to at least be honorable, not gullible, about the facts.

Rain Man

.

[smokymtnsteve]

. The rich pay less in tax than the poor, any day.

Rain Man

.

certainly true as a % of gross income...

I repent

and take back all the lawyer jokes that I have told over the years

[Israel]

Yes, and even the "high taxes" the rich allegedly have to pay is a myth, a fiction, a bed-time story to scare those who enjoy being scared. The rich pay less in tax than the poor, any day.

Besides which, keep in mind that the marginal tax rate used to be over 90 percent, with even FEWER loopholes than today. The uber rich have low taxes today, for sure.

The whole reason the tax code is complex rather than simple is because of special interest rules the rich bribed politicians to pass. Not only do the rich have low effective tax rates, much of their income is never called income to begin with. Why people cry for them is beyond me, but those shedding tears for the uber rich need to at least be honorable, not gullible, about the facts.

Rain Man

.

Can you factually prove any of the above?? I assure you that most people who make money pay some serious taxes. I think what you are saying is more of a myth than the reality that high income earners pay significant taxes. Don't be confused with net worth of individuals...I am talking about income taxes for state and federal purposes. the 41% is the rate paid for self employed individuals in the state of GA (6% state tax). Do you have any actual experience with the tax situation of high income earners or are what you saying just based on what you think may be happening or what the media has told you is happening??

[MOWGLI]

Of course there has been some serious mismanagement of the National Forests, but it has been bipartisan. Also, there is a drought out west right now that is the worst we have experienced in the last 100-200 years. Worse in fact than the dust bowl days of the 30's. Did the liberals create the drought, or did the conservatives?

IMO, one thing that needs to be changed is the permitting of large multi-million dollar homes adjacent to the National Forests in the west (and the east - been to Highlands, NC lately?). When you choose to build a home in the high desert, near a forest that is infested with Pine Beetles, should I have to spend my tax dollars fighting fires that threaten these homes?

As far as I am concerned, if you build a house in the mountains out west, you better join your local VFD. I don't want to spend a cent defending these ill sited homes from fire, which after all, is a natural part of the ecosystem.

For those of you really interested about the issue of development, fire & water in the west, I suggest you read some of Wallace Stegner's non-fiction. Edward Abbey studied under Stegner at Stanford University, and Stegner was the source of great inspiration for Abbey.

Of course, if all you are interested in is bumper sticker slogans (Liberals=Bad, Conservatives=Good), than you probably don't read much anyway.

[SavageLlama]

PS : If you don't like logging, wipe your @ss with a plastic bag.

I'm not against all logging, just logging of my national forests.

And Jack - Teddy Roosevelt was a damn fine environmentalist that enacted major legislation, but he is far from your typical Republican.

In fact, Teddy's probably rolling over in his grave every time Bush rolls back forest regulations... which has been quite often:
http://www.sierraclub.org/wwatch/forests/index.asp

[icemanat95]

Yes, and even the "high taxes" the rich allegedly have to pay is a myth, a fiction, a bed-time story to scare those who enjoy being scared. The rich pay less in tax than the poor, any day.

Besides which, keep in mind that the marginal tax rate used to be over 90 percent, with even FEWER loopholes than today. The uber rich have low taxes today, for sure.

The whole reason the tax code is complex rather than simple is because of special interest rules the rich bribed politicians to pass. Not only do the rich have low effective tax rates, much of their income is never called income to begin with. Why people cry for them is beyond me, but those shedding tears for the uber rich need to at least be honorable, not gullible, about the facts.

Rain Man

.

This argument is just plain stupid, because it assumes that the government is entitled to that money, be it 90% (which was sheer robbery) or 41%. What entitles government to take 41% of one person's earnings when another pays only 5% or sometimes nothing at all (in income tax)? The fact that they are in the top income bracket in the state of Georgia? How does the amount of money they make have ANY impact at all upon what they should be forced to pay to support the country? The only way this argument works is if you place a moral value on net worth and income level.

If "all men(people) are created equal" then all should bear an equal responsibility in upholding the system. It is perfectly fair to impose this as a percentage of income rather than a per-capita value, but imposing an unequal percentage of duty upon a citizen because they have achieved greater wealth is patently unfair.

Your assumption from the word go is that rich=evil and corrupt. That is patently ridiculous and clearly demonstrates your own bigotry. By that level of reasoning Kerry and Edwards are also unworthy since both are quite wealthy and make ample use of tax loopholes and shelters to protect their wealth.

Your argument is based on the idea that the rich deserve to be abusively taxed simply because they have more money. Pure ideology, no logic.

[icemanat95]

At least Kerry had the balls to serve versus daddy's boy who couldn't even last in the no-gos (my contribution to this mud fest).

And a particularly unworthy contribution it is. There are A LOT of names on The Wall in D.C. that belonged to men serving in National Guard units, which you so derisively label "no-gos." A lot of men served in the Guard or Reserves and fought and died so that you could act like a total ingrate and impugne their names and reputations with your B.S. I know guardsmen and women who are serving over seas right now from Guantanamo Bay to the Balkans, down to Afghanistan and Iraq and over to indonesia and the Phillippines, placing themselves in harms way to STAND for something greater than their own pleasure and recreation.

The fact of the matter is that National Guardsmen and women have always been on tap to fill roles in combat and behind the lines that cannot be filled by active duty personel, including rotating whole units into active duty or rotating individuals into active duty units as needed. While there is certainly a lower chance of being forward deployed when serving in a National Guard unit than in an active duty unit, the chance is still there.

I won't speak to President Bush's actual service or intentions in choosing that service, there is far too much controversy there and I lack anything like the degree of factual and confirmable information needed to make a substantive judgement on the subject. What I will speak of is your slur on National Guardsmen in general. Quite frankly, based on your statement, you aren't fit to polish there boots.

[smokymtnsteve]

there.

I won't speak to President Bush's actual service or intentions in choosing that service, there is far too much controversy there and I lack anything like the degree of factual and confirmable information needed to make a substantive judgement on the subject.

Why of course not!

[Jack Tarlin]

Llama--

Of course I realize that Teddy Roosevelt was a rather remarkable man.....so for that matter was Lincoln. So is John McCain. So are a lot of folks who aren't registered Democrats.

The point of my post was to respond to a particularly witless comment that suggested that to be a Republican effectively prevents one from loving one's country. As I said earlier, there are good and evil men occupying positions of power and responsibility in ALL political parties, and blanket generalizations and slurs, whether they're about Republicans, National Guardsmen, or any other group, are almost always incorrect. (And no, I'm not a rabid Republican, or even a tepid one; I'm a registered Independent, and have no party allegiance; on election day I vote for the most qualified people running, and their party affiliation means very little to me).

My earlier post was merely an attempt to tone down some of the language on this thread..if we must discuss non-Trail matters here, we can at least make an attempt to be civil while doing so.

[Blue Jay]

I could have sworn I posted on this thread. Clearly there is a Republican Wingfoot. For those of you who will read this before it is deleted. Remember four buildings came down at the World Trade Center. The two smaller ones also went absolutely straight down, something buildings rarely do if not controlled. The two larger ones were hit by planes, one of the smaller ones was hit by debris. One was not hit by planes or debris, yet it still went straight down. One thing the other posters are correct about is Kerry is clearly also bought and paid for. The Coup d Etat has already occured and you never saw it happen.

[Pencil Pusher]

And a particularly unworthy contribution it is. There are A LOT of names on The Wall in D.C. that belonged to men serving in National Guard units, which you so derisively label "no-gos." A lot of men served in the Guard or Reserves and fought and died so that you could act like a total ingrate and impugne their names and reputations with your B.S. I know guardsmen and women who are serving over seas right now from Guantanamo Bay to the Balkans, down to Afghanistan and Iraq and over to indonesia and the Phillippines, placing themselves in harms way to STAND for something greater than their own pleasure and recreation.

The fact of the matter is that National Guardsmen and women have always been on tap to fill roles in combat and behind the lines that cannot be filled by active duty personel, including rotating whole units into active duty or rotating individuals into active duty units as needed. While there is certainly a lower chance of being forward deployed when serving in a National Guard unit than in an active duty unit, the chance is still there.

I won't speak to President Bush's actual service or intentions in choosing that service, there is far too much controversy there and I lack anything like the degree of factual and confirmable information needed to make a substantive judgement on the subject. What I will speak of is your slur on National Guardsmen in general. Quite frankly, based on your statement, you aren't fit to polish there boots.

Blah, blah, blah. You'll get no sympathy from me, trying to spin my words into a different rant. That's what we called them in the army and it seemed very applicable to that Shrub idiot (which was the basis for that adjective, hint, hint).

[Pencil Pusher]

Can you factually prove any of the above?? I am talking about income taxes for state and federal purposes. the 41% is the rate paid for self employed individuals in the state of GA (6% state tax). Do you have any actual experience with the tax situation of high income earners or are what you saying just based on what you think may be happening or what the media has told you is happening??

Rain Man has it right. Take a class in Individual Income Taxes and learn it for yourself. The difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance is the thickness of a prison wall

[smokymtnsteve]

maybe IsraeL should hire a better accountant

[Rain Man]

Rain Man has it right. Take a class in Individual Income Taxes and learn it for yourself.

Better yet ... earn a post-doctorate in Taxation from N.Y.U.

Thanks for supporthing this bigoted, stupid hiker!

Rain Man

.

[smokymtnsteve]

yea..da rainman is da man

[icemanat95]

I could have sworn I posted on this thread. Clearly there is a Republican Wingfoot. For those of you who will read this before it is deleted. Remember four buildings came down at the World Trade Center. The two smaller ones also went absolutely straight down, something buildings rarely do if not controlled. The two larger ones were hit by planes, one of the smaller ones was hit by debris. One was not hit by planes or debris, yet it still went straight down. One thing the other posters are correct about is Kerry is clearly also bought and paid for. The Coup d Etat has already occured and you never saw it happen.

Blue Jay, you need to check back into the mental ward you came out of because your medication is seriously out of whack.

I knew a young woman on that first plane, I went to her funeral, I watched her family and friends and fiance cry. That was real, it happened. I know people who saw those planes hit those towers and watch the buildings come down from close range. I also know people who worked on the rescue and recovery operations and engineers who analyzed how the buildings came down. It's called gravity you stupid twit and those buildings didn't fall exactly straight down either, they fell in pieces some of which landed over a block away, pouring down on other buildings and overloading their structural integrity. Then what happens is that the more lightly built upper floors collapse on the lower floors setting up a domino effect of stresses that take down the building following the path of least resistance in line with gravity. It is clear you haven't got the faintest idea about physical science.

I am tempted to just walk away from this because there is no reasoning with a deranged and paranoid fool like you, but in this case your insults and outright luncatic accusations need to be answered. I'm sick and tired of pussyfooting around you in the interests of keeping things peaceful. You just outright don't deserve the courtesy.

You are either the biggest troll I've ever encountered or a totally worthless and stunningly stupid waste of life.

I'd apologize to the forum for this, but I just can't be bothered anymore.

[Pencil Pusher]

So what do you think Alan Jackson would say on this Bush ruling, affecting the Chattahoochee? Is it gonna get hotter than a hoochie coochie?

[Israel]

maybe IsraeL should hire a better accountant

You all still have failed to give any solid evidence of what you accuse regarding the tax situation of the upper income bracket. If you will take a step back and think about the words coming out of your mouth and the ideas in your head, you will see the origination of the ideas you propogate do not come from your own personal experience but come from a stereotypical idea that you have learned from the propaganda machine of those that would have you believe that you are the victum and the upper income individuals are the perpetrators. Unless you have first hand experience how can you consider yourself knowledgable about this topic??? Please stop and think.

[Pencil Pusher]

Israel, between you and me, you're right. I've been brainwashed by the ultra-secret Bean Counter's guild, Northwest chapter. It is our duty to give false information in regards to both corporate and individual tax law. But keep this secret between you and me on the hush hush, okay? It's all part of the propaganda machine we secretly interlace with everyday living...

[c.coyle]

... IMO, one thing that needs to be changed is the permitting of large multi-million dollar homes adjacent to the National Forests in the west (and the east - been to Highlands, NC lately?). When you choose to build a home in the high desert, near a forest that is infested with Pine Beetles, should I have to spend my tax dollars fighting fires that threaten these homes?

As far as I am concerned, if you build a house in the mountains out west, you better join your local VFD. I don't want to spend a cent defending these ill sited homes from fire, which after all, is a natural part of the ecosystem...

Buy cheap, insure heavily