Agreed. A dog should earn his/her way onto the trail.Originally Posted by attroll
+100
That just about sums it up, I couldn't agree more.
Colorless green ideas sleep furiously.
On my last hike with two friends, they both talked about bringing their dogs. After hearing about the behavior of one of the dogs, I suggested thinking long and hard about bringing them along. One still brought his dog, and she was an absolute sweetheart. The other friend left his dog at home, and afterwards admitted that he was glad he did.
I would like to see the data that shows that 95% of dogs are not ready to hike the AT. Was this a scientific study done with proper controls?
John Carnahan
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When your dog keeps gong through all his kit, weighing his dog dishes, reading the nutritional information on his dog food, making spreadsheets, he is probably well overdue for a long hike.
I am a huge fan of dogs and have hiked and traveled with them (one at a time) extensively, but the truth of the matter is, your dog needs to be really well trained before you set off on a thru hike with her/him. And even then, it's better to take them out hiking for a few days at a time (and many times) first, to make sure the excitement of the woods isn't going to knock all that training out of them as soon as they smell their first critter. You don't want to be pulling quills out of your dog's muzzle with your too-small Swiss Army knife tweezers, or going into town looking for a dozen cans of tomato juice you can soak their fur in. You (their master) have to be their whole world and they need to not want to leave your side-at all.
Given the right training, some dogs are great hikers, but I have been on treks where dogs have been allowed to race through the woods on their own in the daytime, and run around to other people's campsites begging for food at night. Neither is a good idea. Yes, dogs originally come from the wild, but that was a few thousand years ago, and now they are essentially house pets, who need to be trained before visiting their ancient stomping grounds. Scientists tell us all our ancestors walked out of Africa at some point, but that doesn't mean any of us would be able to survive in the Serengeti if we were pushed out of a plane tomorrow, without gear or training. Dogs, like humans, are happiest and healthiest when they feel secure and protected, and trusting their masters to make their decisions is how they get that way.
My dog is well-behaved on the trail. Right now my boyfriend and I are section hiking and he does great. Doesn't pee every two seconds, doesn't bark, never strays far from us, etc. Out of respect of others, we hook him up on the leash if we see hikers approaching. Not to mention, he offers a sense of security as he gets territorial at our campsites. Furthermore, he benefits physically (no matter how much we try to alter his diet, he gets a little chubby if not exercised regularly, lol). We intend on thru-hiking in a couple years when I'm done in the Army and he's finished with school... and we've accepted he can't go with us. We have to break frequently for him, we understand he won't be invited in shelters or hostels, he gets moody after a few days, and his "gear" adds extra weight to our packs. A dog serves as a great companion on the trail; there is just a lot to consider about both the trail and the dog before bringing your furry friend.
My data
LBJ:
Don't know about "scientific controls" but my observation that the vast majority of Trail dogs need to go home is based on over 15 years of personal observation and experience, something like 25,000 miles of hiking, and interaction with hundreds of dogs and dog owners.
Several months on the Trail this year, including time spent hiking; in trail towns; in trail businesses, motels, hostels, etc. has done nothing to make me change my mind, either. On the contrary, the 95% figure might have been generous.
Jack's article needs to be read with an open mind by everyone considering hiking with a dog as it contains much info/issues that MANY dogowners fail to realize or consider!
I think this guide is totally fair, and, reading through it, and easily answered the "right" answer to every question. So now what do I do? Where can I find a good guide about exactly what I need to know about each part of the trail, and how to hike it with a dog? Something that would tell where dogs are allowed, and where they are not, or what to do, say, in the Great Smokies, where everyone has to stay in a shelter every night? Simply put: where do I find the tutorial "What you need to know about hiking the AT with a dog"?
The thrhiker guides will tell you which hostels don't allow dogs, or require them to be tied up outside. I believe they also give information about boarding your dog while you hike the Smokies. Dogs are not allowed on the AT in the Smokies or Baxter SP. There may be veterinarian information as well.
My best friend Aussie, a blue austrailian shepard died on me at the age of 17 two years ago, he was a perfect turn key dog, never needed a leash ever no matter what jumped out. I've got a 6 year old blue queensland heeler named skillet and he is as well behaved as aussie was just not as sociable but thats nice most of the time. I would take skillet if it werent for the fact that if he leaves with me our other dog won't eat so im screwed. Our other dog has more heart and drive than any ive ever seen but shes not built for it and doesnt mind up to my standards. My opinion is hiking with dogs is great but have to not only always put your dog first but want to put your dog first. And I have and will never put a pack on a dog, the utility breeds out there are meant to pull not pack (huge difference). I also beleive that only some styles of dogs can handle a hike that long, look for hunting, herding type dogs. long legs and bodys, lots of muscle and enderance, deep chests provide bigger lung capacity for heavy breathing to cool off and to stay strong. Small dogs and heavy short leg stocky types have no business on long hikes. Remember dogs are not like people, they're stronger than people and will work to death for their owner without complaining so we as owners must always watch out for them and put their needs above our wants. My .02
Man and his dog out exploring the wilderness together is great and is as much of an American tradition as apple pie.
I am planning a section hike (3-5 days) with my own shelter, A TENT! My dog and I have hiked before, I'm just wondering if anyone who actually has a dog can comment on the pro's and con's they have come across on the AT!
Thanks in advance,
Hazel Skies
Well, Jack, I think we finally agree on something. I'm not having much luck with hiker dogs this year. The first one in lifted his leg and peed on me, lol and no harm done, as his owner was singing the dog's praises. Two days ago, a NOBO arrived with a dog, who bit me and another hiker, and I found out later he also attacked the dog of the trail angel who brought them into town. I don't blame the dog but the owner had no respect for any of our requests to keep people safe and admitted he couldn't control the dog. I love dogs but don't necessarily think the trail is the place for them.
Training is the answer
If I can add my two cents in...
I happen to believe that Jack is right, though he does seem like he has alot of underlying anger toward hikers with unruly dogs. I don't entirely blame him for that. This is why, before I take my dog on the AT(and belive me, I'm not dumb enough to go on a thru hike my first time with my dog. Also not rich enough to get months off work) I've been taking her on hikes every day, training her on how to act on the trail, and I have to say its going very well. She used to pull, wander, and bolt to chase animals. All of these problems are getting better, and I plan on confidently taking her on my first week on the AT.
But I need to say to you Jack, like others have said in so many words; Your list is very informative, but it is less of a guide for if a dog is ready and more of a guide if a dog owner is ready. Anyone who brings a dog with territory or biting issues, with issues of stealing and rooting through and peeing on others belongings simply is not a considerate person, not to other hikers, themselves or the dog. A happy, well disciplined dog will never do these things(unless extremely stressed or scared), they are training issues and they can be overcome.
I'd also like to add on to Jacks list, that your dogs breed DOES matter. Domesticated dogs have been altered so much from the dogs that originally travelled and hunted in the wild. Because of this, some dogs legs can be so short that it becomes a problem. Likewise some dogs have narrow airways and this can become hazardous on the trail. Many other problems like these can occur, so do some research on your dogs breed. Say for instance you have a Corgie or Toy Poodle, you probably shouldnt bring them along.
One last thing I must agree and disagree with; My dog uses a pack/harness. Like you sparing little expense on a proper pack or proper set of boots(if you're smart) you should spare little expense in buying your dogs pack and always make sure it fits properly.
My dog really loves her pack and I let her carry her food and water on dayhikes, but I would not let her carry all of her water on a Hike lasting more than two days. Unlike human packs where the weight is distributed through all of our bodies through gravity due to our upright walking, dogs packs center on the back in between the legs, after a long time with alot of weight, this could really kill your dogs back.
Thanks Jack, its sobering info and very necessary
-A2G
Last edited by A2G; 08-24-2011 at 11:31.
Numerous hostel or lodging providers have complained this year about this, if you bring your dog make sure you pay for its lodging if there's a fee, and don't try to sneak it in if they're not allowed.
Good grief.... Everyone on here sounds so bitter! Dogs make shelters unclean? Seriously? With all the rodent waste in there I avoid shelters because they may make me or my dog sick! Sure, there are irresponsible dog owners out there, but there are also irresponsible hikers out there who smoke in the shelter without asking if I mind, or leave trash laying along the trail.. Should we just outlaw hikers too because 76% of them are litterbugs? I fully understand how annoying an untrained dog can be, and usually offer advice or simply let the dog know that they are annoying. Yes, you can tell a dog to back off. Of course if a wet smelly dog is running around a shelter peeing on gear, it should be kicked out, this goes without saying.Bottom line, there are stupid hikers with dogs, and stupid hikers without dogs. There's no need to generalize. Dogs can be wonderful companions as well as added security. I don't hit the trail without mine and am willing to make sacrifices to have her with me.
When putting a pac on a dog remember the front legs do most tof the wgt bearing. (65 or so %) while the rear legs do most tof the propelling, so pack moer wgt to the front for proper distribution. gnome
My Lady was a Ridgeback/Lab cross. Since my wife and I were planning kids, Lady got above and beyond training about mouth and personal space. She and I hiked the Ice Age trail and many others. It's entirely about training and personality. Lady had 100's of hours of obedience, canine good citizen, agility, etc. training; as long as she acted happy about it, we went for it.
Lady worshipped children. The lab side was pretty gonzo about food, BUT, she would stare not grab or steal. We still tent camped even when there were shelters available. Never had bear trouble, the ridgeback rumble took care of that; on the flip side she was a shameless flirt and loved attention (pretty funny to watch a 90 lbs dog sucking up to a 10 lbs cat).
Any dog problem is really an owner problem, other than allergies. Modern medicine can keep them less buggy than 98% of the humans I've met, they already smell better.
That said, my current lab, Rosie will be staying home; she's too attached to the kids and starts crying as soon as they leave her sight.
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