a really late start !

[brewtus dreadsmore]

I will be starting on oct 1st - yeah its less than desirable but - this is when I'm starting .I have the gear and the guts . maybe not the brains .
I want some serious advice - not someone to say yer nuts kid -

My main questions are :
Will I need crampons or snowshoes right away ?
or when/ where should i have them in my mail drop ?
I was planning on getting them at gorham - is this a good plan ?

I know alot depends on the year and such .
What temps should i be expecting in oct ?
and as i hike along at about 15 miles a day .?

Any other advice or knowledge to share would be welcomed and appreciated .

[Pak-Man]

There are some really good tips here, if you use the search feature.

Here is one I found particularly helpful. http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=44164

Good Luck

"Dirt"

[The Solemates]

october in the new england mountains is hit or miss....you could have blizzard conditions with 4 foot snow drifts, and you could have nice sunny weather. obviously, the higher elevations will be more treacherous.

we were in the adirondacks in october and began on what seemed like a nice morning with an alpine start. it was mild, and the sun was starting to come out halfway up our first 46er; it was in the 50s. 2/3 up the mountain it started snowing and temp started dropping. around lunchtime we couldnt see 1/8-mile and we were in snow drifts up to our waists, both from residual snow and the snow that had fallen in the last 3-4 hours. the temp was then in the teens.

that said....I would be prepared for the worst, from the beginning.

[Snowleopard]

This is SOBO from Katahdin in Oct, right?
"Will I need crampons or snowshoes right away ?"
On Oct. 1, you'll need at least some kind of traction, in-step crampons, stabilicers, or microspikes. Occasionally you need these in the summer in the whites. http://www.kahtoola.com/microspikes.html
Depending on when you hit the White Mountains, you may need ice axe (and know how to self arrest), real crampons, and snowshoes. I think the AMC huts are closed by the time you get to the White Mts.

You need cold weather winter hiking and camping experience before you start!!
Weather going over MT. Washington: look at the observatory archives http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/summit.php
Last year, Nov. 2, 2008 Temp 5F, wind average=49 mph peak gust 70
Nov. 6, 2008 Temp 41F, wind average=16 peak 37 mph.
Do you know how to dress so your nose doesn't freeze 70 mph winds at 5 degrees?
Do you have the good judgement to wait out bad weather and to bail out if conditions become too severe?
Hiking through Oct. is doable with a bit of care, until you hit the Whites; then you have to decide if you're over your head.

[Feral Bill]

You could always bypass the Whites and return to that next summer. Otherwise you'll have a mountaineering expedition built into your hike.

[fiddlehead]

Started in 2001 on oct 14th SOBO.
Used instep crampons once or twice (carried pan head sheet metal screws and used them once)
Had a beautiful day going over Mt. Washington but hit a snowstorm around South Kinsman.
After that, everything was pretty nice.
Had a 70 degree day in NJ in Dec.

Yes, it's hit or miss.
Some years are tough.
We had a good one.

Good luck.
Long nights is the worst part.
The foliage, having the trail to yourself and better views (after foliage) is the best part.

ps. Most hostels, hotels, state parks are closed in the winter.

[mudhead]

Blaze orange. Plenty of it.

Day length will be short up here by 10/1.

[brewtus dreadsmore]

Started in 2001 on oct 14th SOBO.

ps. Most hostels, hotels, state parks are closed in the winter.

when you say the state parks are closed - is that just services ? I'll still be able to walk through em right ?

[DavidNH]

I will be starting on oct 1st - yeah its less than desirable but - this is when I'm starting .I have the gear and the guts . maybe not the brains .
I want some serious advice - not someone to say yer nuts kid -

My main questions are :
Will I need crampons or snowshoes right away ?
or when/ where should i have them in my mail drop ?
I was planning on getting them at gorham - is this a good plan ?

I know alot depends on the year and such .
What temps should i be expecting in oct ?
and as i hike along at about 15 miles a day .?

Any other advice or knowledge to share would be welcomed and appreciated .

Are you outfitted and experienced for winter hiking and climbing? If you are starting at Katahdin on October 1 the weather is already dicey up there but you may well be ok till the Mahoosics. There is absolutely positively NO way you will get through (much less to) the whites without encountering full winter conditions on the peaks. As for equipment, you may or may not need snowshoes in ME or NH. You most definitely be needing crampons. I'd suggest having them from Andover. But it is possibly you may need them as early as the Bigelows!

This is a really really late south bound start and unless you are outfitted and prepared for winter hiking (real winter hiking, not what southerners call winter hiking) than you are taking a major risk!

You will probably start out with temps in 40's and 50's except at the higher elevations. On the peaks of the Mahoosics and the whites I'd plan for temps in 20's or teens, gale force winds, white outs, possible blizzards not to mention ice.

You can perhaps judge conditions when you climb Katahdin. If all is good there you will probably get through the 100 mile and the bigelows just fine. But by the time you are in the Mahoosics it will be at least mid October.


Hold off on the snow shoes till at least Andover, ME and possibly Gorham, NH. I'd suggest having crampons possibly from start but definitely for Mahoosics and whites. You may need ice axe in whites.

It is after Gorham where the **** will really hit the fan so to speak (high elevations).

David

[brewtus dreadsmore]

I'm from Minnesota , so I'm kinda basing my preperations on what the winter is like here . ( for the high elev. - it will prob be milder in the low )
I've got expierance winter camping/ hiking here and a few other places out West .
the Northeast ( and well really the whole trail ) is an area I havnt been to, and am excited to explore .

[Snowleopard]

I'm from Minnesota , so I'm kinda basing my preperations on what the winter is like here . ( for the high elev. - it will prob be milder in the low )
I've got expierance winter camping/ hiking here and a few other places out West .
the Northeast ( and well really the whole trail ) is an area I havnt been to, and am excited to explore .

It's probably a lot windier in the White Mtns especially above treeline. Use a neoprene face mask or tunnel hood; I have a beard so I use a tunnel hood in windy conditions.

[Blissful]

Hope you're skilled in winter mountaineering. If not, don't do it until you are and have the skills necessary to survive the severe conditions that frequent the Whites, among other areas. Too many casualties out there from unprepared hikers. Not worth losing your life over.

[fiddlehead]

The state parks are closed for camping, stores are closed, but hiking trails remain open.

When we did our SOBO in the winter, first of all, we had support (van)
That makes things a lot easier. Mostly mentally although dry shoes were nice as was good food.
We were in great shape and could do 25 mile days whenever we needed to (did quite a few of them)
We worried quite a bit about Mt. Wash. and did Pinkham to Crawford in one day and it was one beautiful day. So, our worries were not necessary.

But we did have a big snowstorm on Kinsman and got really soaked walking through it.
We never needed snowshoes and i mentioned the 2 or 3 times that we used traction devices to get over some icy covered rocks in the whites and Maine.

You will need some luck, especially with the weather over the above treeline sections in the whites.

However, i think you will find that Maine has some pretty nice weather that time of year.
I have summited Katahdin on NOBO hikes twice in Oct to beautiful days and our SOBO Oct start hike in 2001 was another great day. ( a week or two earlier would be a better starting date)

I have hit some terrible rainstorms in Maine on other hikes though.
Like i said, you need some luck. (and of course some skills)

How fast do you hike? (
We were at the halfway point of the trail in 2 months on our journey. (and Christmas in SNP)

[Feral Bill]

Going alone? That would add a large degree of risk.

[fiddlehead]

True, we saw no other hikers after the first 2 weeks of our hike in Oct. 14, 2009 starting time.

[brewtus dreadsmore]

I have been section hiking the SHT to train and prepare for the mighty AT - averaging 20 mile days . ( did a 28 this last weekend - so im getting there )
I have been going ultralite though - no tent/sleeping bag - i think the coldest was about 35 degrees - and that was pushin the limits of my sleep system - ( 2 thermal shirt , light rain shell , reg pants , light wool socks , ) - I will be much more geared up for the AT -
Thank you to everyone for the advice and good luck wishes - and keep the both of 'em coming

[brewtus dreadsmore]

It's probably a lot windier in the White Mtns especially above treeline. Use a neoprene face mask or tunnel hood; I have a beard so I use a tunnel hood in windy conditions.

what is a tunnel hood ? - I've just used a scarf/safety glasses and a ear flap hat and my jacket hood in cold /wind - I wasnt planing on bringing a scarf specificly - more like a thermal shirt wraped around my face - (I think im gonna have 3 in my gear )
and yeah I have a beard as well and it aint going anywhere im not on the trail .

[jeepcj258]

It will be hard for you to post, but i would love to follow your trip journal. Should be interesting.

I remember someone leaving late on NOBO a couple years back and had to get off the trail in late Dec or Jan, yours should be much better.

[The Solemates]

I have been section hiking the SHT to train and prepare for the mighty AT - averaging 20 mile days . ( did a 28 this last weekend - so im getting there )
I have been going ultralite though - no tent/sleeping bag - i think the coldest was about 35 degrees - and that was pushin the limits of my sleep system - ( 2 thermal shirt , light rain shell , reg pants , light wool socks , ) - I will be much more geared up for the AT -
Thank you to everyone for the advice and good luck wishes - and keep the both of 'em coming

I've done parts of the SHT, and all of the AT in New England, along with many other trails in New England.

I don't want to bust your bubble because at least you are getting out there and training and having fun, but the SHT ain't nothin' compared to the AT through the Whites and southern ME.

Please know what you are getting into.

Otherwise, don't fret over the naysayers. They said the same to us, starting out as a couple, on the 1st of February.

[Skyline]

If you could possibly start on or before Labor Day, you would dramatically increase your odds. That's still late, but you would gain almost four weeks of predictably passable weather in most places. You might even still find some hostels and other facilities open all the way to the NH border, maybe even the VT border. But all the White Mt. huts except Carter Dome will be long closed by the time you get there—and Carter will be self-serve.

Again, those Whites: Even if you started right now, you would need to be prepared for drastic winter-like conditions once you get there. Just that your odds would be better than waiting 'til Oct. 1.

Question: What kind of backup, bailout, or possibly even support plans have you formulated—especially for the higher peaks and the Mahoosucs/Whites? Going out there without multiple backupplans in winter invites trouble IMHO. If you can arrange it, having a support van like Fiddlehead makes a ton of sense.

Later in the hike, as you move south, don't discount the winter conditions either. By then it will be deep winter.

I know many of us seem rather negative. I think that just means we want to make sure you know what you're getting yourself into. Your plans could work if you have the gear, experience, and support. The odds for success without all three are not good IMHO.