Vermont Trail Conditions

[Del Q]

Planning on hike from Lee, Mass to Rutland, VT in Late Sept, read something about really muddy trail conditions in Vermont a few weeks ago, does anyone have current status?

Thanks

[Deadeye]

It's always muddy, just worse than usual this year, with rain almost every day of June and July. Weather is starting to dry out, and late September is usually the least muddy time (and all around perfect hiking conditions - good weather, bugs are gone,etc.)

just bring extra socks

[Del Q]

Will do, inquired based on what I read on this website a few weeks ago, appeared as if a LOT of miles were washed out and unusually muddy, I was thinking of heading South to VA vs North for my Fall hike. Would you adjust your plans?

[Jeff]

Deadeye is dead-on.

Conditions are much improved here in mid-August. Will always be muddy after a rainy day, but Sept should be near ideal for a hike in VT.

[sasquatch2014]

Well they must have completely changed from when I was there only a week ago. Now I will give you that some of the mud with only a few good hot days got to that pizza dough constancy that you can walk through.

I don't think that a few days will fix some of the issues that you all have. When you see big frogs that live in some of the puddles I think that they have been there a while. There were parts of the trail that were active streams as we had not had rain in over 24 hrs and the flow was still strong. To me this means that the with all the extra rain the stream has changed course and has chosen the trail as it's new path.

The extra socks are a must. Plan that at times your progress will be slower than you think that it should be and plan on some good slips just watch that you don't pull anything when this happens just kind of go with it don't fight it.
I did see some crews north of Rt 4 that were doing water bars and check dams on the trail so there is progress. I know that there will be mud but the whole "it's Vermont and Vermont is always muddy" is a cop out when there are some things that are preventable and nothing was done. I challenge anyone to tell me why a stream should be running for over .1 of a mile and flooding out the front of a shelter. Not runoff but the stream. Hell I like my water source close but not that close.

So yes it is muddy and there will be parts that will always be muddy unless something is done to those areas. Jump in get your feet wet get it over with and enjoy the scenery. I had a great trip overall. You will find things with any part of the trail that could be fixed. For that matter if you see something that you can fix do it. Don't ever except the old thats just always the way it's been and so there for nothing can ever be done to make it better.

Sorry for the long ramble.

Short answer - Yes there will be mud. Bring socks enjoy Vermont.

[Deadeye]

99% of the work on the LT is done by volunteers.

Just sayin'

[Del Q]

Thanks Sasquatch, Vermont it is, REALLY looking forward to the Fall colors in late Sept. I will pack a shovel, aluminum.

[Tinker]

Well they must have completely changed from when I was there only a week ago. Now I will give you that some of the mud with only a few good hot days got to that pizza dough constancy that you can walk through.

I don't think that a few days will fix some of the issues that you all have. When you see big frogs that live in some of the puddles I think that they have been there a while. There were parts of the trail that were active streams as we had not had rain in over 24 hrs and the flow was still strong. To me this means that the with all the extra rain the stream has changed course and has chosen the trail as it's new path.

The extra socks are a must. Plan that at times your progress will be slower than you think that it should be and plan on some good slips just watch that you don't pull anything when this happens just kind of go with it don't fight it.
I did see some crews north of Rt 4 that were doing water bars and check dams on the trail so there is progress. I know that there will be mud but the whole "it's Vermont and Vermont is always muddy" is a cop out when there are some things that are preventable and nothing was done. I challenge anyone to tell me why a stream should be running for over .1 of a mile and flooding out the front of a shelter. Not runoff but the stream. Hell I like my water source close but not that close.

So yes it is muddy and there will be parts that will always be muddy unless something is done to those areas. Jump in get your feet wet get it over with and enjoy the scenery. I had a great trip overall. You will find things with any part of the trail that could be fixed. For that matter if you see something that you can fix do it. Don't ever except the old thats just always the way it's been and so there for nothing can ever be done to make it better.

Sorry for the long ramble.

Short answer - Yes there will be mud. Bring socks enjoy Vermont.

At which shelter was there flooding?

[sasquatch2014]

99% of the work on the LT is done by volunteers.

Just sayin'

As is the case in NY an d I am a Trail l maintainer in NY so the whole put up or shut up comment is lost on me.

[sasquatch2014]

At which shelter was there flooding?

Winnituri was a full on stream for the last .1 down to the shelter and the whole front of the shelter was a flood. This was a full 24 plus hrs after the last rain.

[Cabin Fever]

99% of the work on the LT is done by volunteers.

Just sayin'

What about all of those seasonal college kids I saw doing trail work and being caretakers while I was there?

Most of the AT trail work is done by volunteers. I am torn between thinking Vermont is just naturally muddy and the GMC does the best job it can or they need to do a better job of drainage. I will say that I did not see as many water bars as one would expect. While hiking, I too noticed how the trail was like a stream. Most obvious to me on the NOBO climb of Bromley.

[Blue Jay]

As is the case in NY an d I am a Trail l maintainer in NY so the whole put up or shut up comment is lost on me.

OK, how about just shut up then. Trail crews in Vermont do a great job the fact that it is lost on you might just mean that you need to stay in NY.

[Deadeye]

As is the case in NY an d I am a Trail l maintainer in NY so the whole put up or shut up comment is lost on me.

Put up or shut up was not the message I intended to convey (ok, maybe just a little), but I hate typing.

With over 400 miles of main and side trails in the LT system, and the vast majority of the work done by volunteers like you and me, it is impossible to address all trail issues on a timely basis. Many trail sections are maintend by adopters, who are able to work on their assigned section a few times a year. And those college kids and caretakers (my college gig, too) might as well be volunteers for the pittance they receive. They also have only a certain amount of musclepower and time to work on the trail.

With the constancy and intensity of rain received this year to date, the maintenance capacity is simply overwhelmed, hence the appearance of significant mud, washouts, standing water etc. Where once the trail had apparent adequate drainage (waterbars, ditching, etc.), the drainage capacity of the trail is likewise overwhelmed. At least now we can see where more waterbars are needed!

We all do our best to keep the trails up. We're starting a hot,dry spell which will work near-miracles to dry things out.

Enjoy your hike, just bring extra socks!

[sasquatch2014]

OK, how about just shut up then. Trail crews in Vermont do a great job the fact that it is lost on you might just mean that you need to stay in NY.

Well someone has their panties in a twist! I for one know well what work has been done and what work could be done with out it being a major issues. So I don't think the term "Lost on you" would really be the best term.

[Blue Jay]

the whole put up or shut up comment is lost on me.

A lot of things are lost on you, my BS detector is ringing. Never before have I heard a maintainer complain about other maintainers due to the fact that they are clearly aware of the work and time involved. Also it's not the NY section it's always NY/NJ.
Who exactly have you worked with?

[Tinker]

Winnituri was a full on stream for the last .1 down to the shelter and the whole front of the shelter was a flood. This was a full 24 plus hrs after the last rain.

I've been there and can picture the scene. It was a little boggy there when I went through and the weather had been dry for a couple of weeks.
There are a number of low lying areas on the LT and the AT north of Maine Junction that cannot be drained well because there is no place lower to drain the water to.........and it's been so wet this year that I'm sure it's a never-ending job trying to keep the water bars cleared. I don't know what the Vt. maintainers are doing, but I'm sure they're doing their best.

[sasquatch2014]

A lot of things are lost on you, my BS detector is ringing. Never before have I heard a maintainer complain about other maintainers due to the fact that they are clearly aware of the work and time involved. Also it's not the NY section it's always NY/NJ.
Who exactly have you worked with?

Unless you happen to be in NY not NJ. and as far as my right to say that things can be done better the fact that I maintain a section of trail does not preclude me from saying anything unless there is some form that says I should be a mindless drone that always totes some bull**** party like which seems to be the thing that you would like to hear from me so I guess the bull**** meter that is pegging out must be from your own pile.

[Cabin Fever]

I am an engineer so let's turn this into a math equation. As told to me at the ATC Biennial, there are almost 10,000 members in the GMC.

10,000 members / 400 miles = 25 people / mile.

My Club -> 600 members / 135 miles = 4.4 people / mile.

By ratio, if my Club had 10,000 members: 10,000 / 600 = 16.67, 16.67*135 = 2250 miles (ironic, that is basically the AT + blue blazes).

I know the GMC works hard, but let the numbers speak for themselves. I understand the importance of volunteers and being appreciative of their work and I appreciate the GMC's work. I also understand that weathers plays a big part.

I am very fortunate to be in a Club that is incredibly gifted at trail maintenance. We have several (15-25) that go out multiple days/week. We also get outside help - college students, Hard Core, etc.

Thank you GMC!

[Peaks]

I am an engineer so let's turn this into a math equation. As told to me at the ATC Biennial, there are almost 10,000 members in the GMC.

10,000 members / 400 miles = 25 people / mile.

My Club -> 600 members / 135 miles = 4.4 people / mile.

By ratio, if my Club had 10,000 members: 10,000 / 600 = 16.67, 16.67*135 = 2250 miles (ironic, that is basically the AT + blue blazes).

I know the GMC works hard, but let the numbers speak for themselves. I understand the importance of volunteers and being appreciative of their work and I appreciate the GMC's work. I also understand that weathers plays a big part.

I am very fortunate to be in a Club that is incredibly gifted at trail maintenance. We have several (15-25) that go out multiple days/week. We also get outside help - college students, Hard Core, etc.

Thank you GMC!

Then, by extension, the trails maintained by the AMC should be immaculate.

[Bobbo]

Just hiked the LT. In many cases the trail is the lowest point. Water pools and gathers in these saddles and deppressions. The trail would need to be built up with stepping stones or walk ways. It appears that the nature of the environment is predisposed to excessive bogging and mud. Add lots of rain and it makes it crazy. It is clear that there is maintance going on, but it also it appears that they don't wish to create a paved walk way across Vermont. It is what it is. Still lots of fun. I bet even by now it is much much better then it was just a couple of weeks ago.