Incompetent/unprepared Boy Scouts. Why? Who's at fault?

[Primitive]

um, how does one come up with a name of 'primitive' when they seek out man-made wooden boxes and are looking for etiquette in the woods?

Man-made wooden shelters go back as far as man, ranging from quick-and-dirty lean-tos and debris huts to more permanent wikiups and longhouses.

And etiquette has always been intrinsic to human culture. In fact, since man was once constrained to dealing with only a very small group of tribe-mates, it was probably a lot more ubiquitous in the past than it is now.

That said, I nonetheless did not self-name. My name fell upon me because I built a debris hut to avoid sharing a shelter with teenage boys [I had no tent at the time], which seems an appropriate irony now.

One of the things I learned on my hike was that there is no solace in the woods, at least, not on the Appalachian Trail. I will take this lesson into account, and not expect any peace or privacy on well-trodden hiking trails in the future. Continuing to use the trail while also complaining about its other users would of course be hypocritical and insane of me.

I have also just re-learned how much I dislike forum drama. I would appreciate if my comments would be viewed as dead in the water, as from here on out, I will be uncommunicative on all opinion-related threads on this forum, this thread included.

[Oh, I do realize you may have been speaking lightly, but there is no way to read sarcasm in plaintext, you know.]

:Cheers,:
-Primitive.

[Tin Man]

Not true... unless you're a jerk off, which you almost certainly are with that kind of opinion.

haha. i am about the most considerate hiker out there. but expecting others to behave like one wants them to by some so-called etiquette rules is totally not going to happen as frequently as some expect they should.

[Midway Sam]

Just in case this thread gets locked up, I want to take the time to honestly thank everyone who has taken the time to weigh in with their opinion. I have learned a lot and truly feel that the comments I have read will make me a better Boy Scout leader.

I have even taken the liberty to pick out some of the most "eye-opening" comments and compiled them into a little handout that I plan on giving my boys. It's an "essay" if you will titled "Scouting Through the Eyes of Outsiders" and serves as a challenge for my Scouts to adhere to the Scout Law, Scout Oath and Outdoor Code at all times because you never know when someone is observing you.

[Tin Man]

Just in case this thread gets locked up, I want to take the time to honestly thank everyone who has taken the time to weigh in with their opinion. I have learned a lot and truly feel that the comments I have read will make me a better Boy Scout leader.

I have even taken the liberty to pick out some of the most "eye-opening" comments and compiled them into a little handout that I plan on giving my boys. It's an "essay" if you will titled "Scouting Through the Eyes of Outsiders" and serves as a challenge for my Scouts to adhere to the Scout Law, Scout Oath and Outdoor Code at all times because you never know when someone is observing you.

Cool. Care to share the essay?

[superman]

Just in case this thread gets locked up, I want to take the time to honestly thank everyone who has taken the time to weigh in with their opinion. I have learned a lot and truly feel that the comments I have read will make me a better Boy Scout leader.

I have even taken the liberty to pick out some of the most "eye-opening" comments and compiled them into a little handout that I plan on giving my boys. It's an "essay" if you will titled "Scouting Through the Eyes of Outsiders" and serves as a challenge for my Scouts to adhere to the Scout Law, Scout Oath and Outdoor Code at all times because you never know when someone is observing you.

Don't forget my "electronic dog collar" comment. That should get the little buggers attention.

[Midway Sam]

Cool. Care to share the essay?

Sure, but it will most likely prove to be a boring read. I'm no essayist so don't expect much.

One disclaimer: I took the liberty of appending the phrase " ...me and my friends!" to the end of a sentence in one of Geek's posts. My apologies Geek but I felt that it helped to convey the point that I thought he was trying to make. Also, I reformatted Doctari's post a little bit to help with the readability.

Even though I said above not to expect much, I would still welcome any comments, criticism and/or critique via PM if you are so inclined. I'd love to hear from people...

Attachment 6775

[Tin Man]

Thanks Midway. Looks great! I am sure other scouters will also find it helpful.

[Rduke50]

We used to take the troop into the Allegheny National Forest in Northwestern, Pa. There are many different trails of differing levels of difficulty. This allowed the scouts of all experience levels to find a trail suited for them.

On the way out with Scouts straight out of the wilderness...no showers, etc.
We buffed them up as best we could.

Invariably, every trip, patrons at the local restaurant would pay the tab as a gesture of respect for the Scouts and how they behaved.

No electronic dog collars necessary...

[Tin Man]

Weasel likes to show what a smart cookie he is. Me? I like to google. I did it for you TM.

● Youth Leadership
Boy Scouts of America believes that homosexual conduct is inconsistent with the obligations in the Scout Oath and Scout Law to be morally straight and clean in thought, word, and deed. The conduct of youth members must be in compliance with the Scout Oath and Law, and membership in Boy Scouts of America is contingent upon the willingness to accept Scouting’s values and beliefs. Most boys join Scouting when they are 10 or 11 years old. As they continue in the program, all Scouts are expected to take leadership positions. In the unlikely event that an older boy were to hold himself out as homosexual, he would not be able to continue in a youth leadership position.
http://www.bsalegal.org/morally-straight-cases-225.asp


I am not a smart lawyer like TW, so I just went to the same Boy Scout legal site as before. Not being a smart lawyer type, it seems pretty straight forward. (OK..only if the boy does not earn rank. If he wants to stay..what Scout or Tenderfoot, he can be gay. )




Ah..too late!
Happy Friday!

What's everyone doing this weekend ???? (Tin Man is going hiking. I'm going hiking. TW is grabbing a poop bag. anyone else? )

Man-made wooden shelters go back as far as man, ranging from quick-and-dirty lean-tos and debris huts to more permanent wikiups and longhouses.

And etiquette has always been intrinsic to human culture. In fact, since man was once constrained to dealing with only a very small group of tribe-mates, it was probably a lot more ubiquitous in the past than it is now.

That said, I nonetheless did not self-name. My name fell upon me because I built a debris hut to avoid sharing a shelter with teenage boys [I had no tent at the time], which seems an appropriate irony now.

One of the things I learned on my hike was that there is no solace in the woods, at least, not on the Appalachian Trail. I will take this lesson into account, and not expect any peace or privacy on well-trodden hiking trails in the future. Continuing to use the trail while also complaining about its other users would of course be hypocritical and insane of me.

I have also just re-learned how much I dislike forum drama. I would appreciate if my comments would be viewed as dead in the water, as from here on out, I will be uncommunicative on all opinion-related threads on this forum, this thread included.

[Oh, I do realize you may have been speaking lightly, but there is no way to read sarcasm in plaintext, you know.]

:Cheers,:
-Primitive.

Oh, I agree etiquette is cool. Just that etiquette at a shelter is impossible to agree on as has been demonstrated many times at shelters and on these forums. And as you have come to realize, the AT is really a zoo... not primitive at all.

Just teasing you about the trail name. No need to go away. Just don't take stuff so serious and you will be fine. I learned the hard way myself. Cheers.

[Tin Man]

Hmm, didn't mean for mags post to be included there. Some day I might get my edit button back, but not today.

[Jim Adams]

Sure, but it will most likely prove to be a boring read. I'm no essayist so don't expect much.

One disclaimer: I took the liberty of appending the phrase " ...me and my friends!" to the end of a sentence in one of Geek's posts. My apologies Geek but I felt that it helped to convey the point that I thought he was trying to make. Also, I reformatted Doctari's post a little bit to help with the readability.

Even though I said above not to expect much, I would still welcome any comments, criticism and/or critique via PM if you are so inclined. I'd love to hear from people...

Attachment 6775

Good job! I wish you and your scouts well.

geek

[Wise Old Owl]

Just in case this thread gets locked up, I want to take the time to honestly thank everyone who has taken the time to weigh in with their opinion. I have learned a lot and truly feel that the comments I have read will make me a better Boy Scout leader.

I have even taken the liberty to pick out some of the most "eye-opening" comments and compiled them into a little handout that I plan on giving my boys. It's an "essay" if you will titled "Scouting Through the Eyes of Outsiders" and serves as a challenge for my Scouts to adhere to the Scout Law, Scout Oath and Outdoor Code at all times because you never know when someone is observing you.

Yea that would be interesting, Pm it over.

[Midway Sam]

Yea that would be interesting, Pm it over.

Post 346... at the bottom.

[superman]

Sure, but it will most likely prove to be a boring read. I'm no essayist so don't expect much.

One disclaimer: I took the liberty of appending the phrase " ...me and my friends!" to the end of a sentence in one of Geek's posts. My apologies Geek but I felt that it helped to convey the point that I thought he was trying to make. Also, I reformatted Doctari's post a little bit to help with the readability.

Even though I said above not to expect much, I would still welcome any comments, criticism and/or critique via PM if you are so inclined. I'd love to hear from people...

Attachment 6775

Outstanding. I encourage you to send it to the national headquarters.

[Mags]

Midway Sam..nice essay!

Tin Man..sorry to hear about the off again hike.


I came back from the hike. Perhaps 8 miles R/T to a lake just below the
Divide. Nice little hike with the GF. She's a little sore (too steep. Doh!)..I promised I'd take her out to breakfast tomorrow. And Monday? Off to hike the CDT from Silverton to Cumbres.. Woo hoo! (I took a lower route in 2006 due to too much snow)

[Tin Man]

Midway Sam..nice essay!

Tin Man..sorry to hear about the off again hike.


I came back from the hike. Perhaps 8 miles R/T to a lake just below the
Divide. Nice little hike with the GF. She's a little sore (too steep. Doh!)..I promised I'd take her out to breakfast tomorrow. And Monday? Off to hike the CDT from Silverton to Cumbres.. Woo hoo! (I took a lower route in 2006 due to too much snow)

Thanks Mags. We are going to do Plan B, fewer days and miles, but still racking up some AT miles we haven't covered yet. It's all good.

[SassyWindsor]

The last BSA Group I encountered demonstrated the amazing ability of hiking and text messaging with great ease. I assume they had earned
(or were earning) the merit badge of communication.

Whatever you see them doing in the woods as a scout will be better than what they would be doing as part of some street gang.

[Bulldawg]

Just for the heck of it, I'm going to throw this out there. I took a group of 30 cub scouts and parents out on the AT yesterday morning. Cub Scouts are aged from 7 to 11.

We split into 3 groups of 10 spread about 10 minutes apart. We went up over the Tray summit and met again at the Tray Shelter. I gave the boys and parents a 5 or 6 minute talk prior to setting out on LNT (which we have studied and earned the badge for already, but I wanted to reinforce it). and on the history and facts about the Appalachian Trail. When we got to the shelter the boys and parents were all FULL of questions. Of the 30 in the group only 4 of us (myself included) had ever been on the AT (most of them had never even heard of it). Only one of us that had been on the AT was not a former Scout. So anyway, the boys were full of questions and extremely excited to be out there. Eight of the boys told me they were going to hike the entire trail one day. And as a bonus, we carried out almost an entire kitchen garbage bag of trash over the short 2.6 mile hike. Most of it came out of the fire pit at the shelter which the boys loved cleaning out for me. When we arrived back at the parking area I was very disappointed that the fine views along the AT were not visible at all yesterday morning due to being socked in by fog. None of the participants were though. They all said not to worry, because they would be coming back as soon as possible. I even had a lawyer on the trip who came over and told me how much he appreciated me getting "HIM" out on the trail, that he had never really considered how close we lived to this treasure.

So irregardless of anyone's opinion of Boy Scouts in general, I think we can all agree that the organization's commitment to the outdoors is there. I think we can all also agree that bringing new people (whether it be scouts or parents) to appreciate this resource can never be a bad thing.

[rickb]

Great post Bulldog. And an even greater trip!

Quite of few of us have the Scouts to thank for leading us to the AT in one form or fashion.

Remember this poll? Its sort of related to that. Kind of, anyway.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/show...ght=rank+scout

[ed bell]

Just for the heck of it, I'm going to throw this out there. I took a group of 30 cub scouts and parents out on the AT yesterday morning. Cub Scouts are aged from 7 to 11.

We split into 3 groups of 10 spread about 10 minutes apart. We went up over the Tray summit and met again at the Tray Shelter. I gave the boys and parents a 5 or 6 minute talk prior to setting out on LNT (which we have studied and earned the badge for already, but I wanted to reinforce it). and on the history and facts about the Appalachian Trail. When we got to the shelter the boys and parents were all FULL of questions. Of the 30 in the group only 4 of us (myself included) had ever been on the AT (most of them had never even heard of it). Only one of us that had been on the AT was not a former Scout. So anyway, the boys were full of questions and extremely excited to be out there. Eight of the boys told me they were going to hike the entire trail one day. And as a bonus, we carried out almost an entire kitchen garbage bag of trash over the short 2.6 mile hike. Most of it came out of the fire pit at the shelter which the boys loved cleaning out for me. When we arrived back at the parking area I was very disappointed that the fine views along the AT were not visible at all yesterday morning due to being socked in by fog. None of the participants were though. They all said not to worry, because they would be coming back as soon as possible. I even had a lawyer on the trip who came over and told me how much he appreciated me getting "HIM" out on the trail, that he had never really considered how close we lived to this treasure.

So irregardless of anyone's opinion of Boy Scouts in general, I think we can all agree that the organization's commitment to the outdoors is there. I think we can all also agree that bringing new people (whether it be scouts or parents) to appreciate this resource can never be a bad thing.

Awesome post, Bulldog. Great to hear about this topic from someone who is actually doing something to help the Scouts. You are a valuable resource for those kids and they are lucky you help out. Scouting volunteers with real backpacking knowledge are probably few and far between.